they should have stuck with TES.
200 years, what a plot hole!
» Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:55 pm
they should have stuck with TES.
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Spaceman - Posts: 3429
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:09 am
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:36 am
Just repeat to yourself this is just a show, I should really just relax.
-Mystery Science Theatre 3000-
-Mystery Science Theatre 3000-
WOOT!!!!
:jammasterjay: :mohawk: :foodndrink: MST3K is one of my favorite shows! Kudos! And yes, every so often I do repeat the mantra of MST3K to avoid annoying the people around me too much. -
Danny Blight - Posts: 3400
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:30 am
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:19 am
WAIT! are we talking about MST3K?
That was a great show. Especially the one called Invasion of the giants spiders, or whatever it was called.
That was a great show. Especially the one called Invasion of the giants spiders, or whatever it was called.
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Miss K - Posts: 3458
- Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:33 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:18 am
Okay, I stand corrected on Chernobyl. The area is still deadly irradiated. At least for humans.
To all those who claim that there is no plant life in the world of Fallout, I would like to point out a few quid pro quos.
1) Harold. If you know what I'm talking about then you know what I mean. I tried not to spoil anything concerning "President" Eden, and I'm not going to do it for Harold.
2) Muitfruit. What is it and where does it come from?
3) Point Look out. The bombs didn't fall there and it's a bit of a swamp. And there is a weird fruit that is grown there.
4) In the first Fallout game the first town I ran into was a farming town. That's right, a FARM town. They were growing crops. With a high enough science skill you could advise them on crop rotation. Please, nobody be stupid and tell me that crops don't count. Hey, anyone remember meeting Tandy? Don't ask me why I remember.
To all those who claim that there is no plant life in the world of Fallout, I would like to point out a few quid pro quos.
1) Harold. If you know what I'm talking about then you know what I mean. I tried not to spoil anything concerning "President" Eden, and I'm not going to do it for Harold.
2) Muitfruit. What is it and where does it come from?
3) Point Look out. The bombs didn't fall there and it's a bit of a swamp. And there is a weird fruit that is grown there.
4) In the first Fallout game the first town I ran into was a farming town. That's right, a FARM town. They were growing crops. With a high enough science skill you could advise them on crop rotation. Please, nobody be stupid and tell me that crops don't count. Hey, anyone remember meeting Tandy? Don't ask me why I remember.
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Catherine Harte - Posts: 3379
- Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:58 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:47 am
I see plenty of scrub bush's and such, there is plenty of life!
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Red Bevinz - Posts: 3318
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:25 am
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:19 am
Something else to keep in mind with the differences in foliage between the Capital Wasteland and Point Lookout is that one would clearly have been a more important target than the other.
In the final showdown, all of these nuclear armed countries would have reduced each other's major cities and points of strategic interest to ash during that 'everything and the kitchen sink' two hour 'Great War' bombardment. Assuming population centers were at all similar to our world for the sake of argument, the target list would run right down the census charts from New York to Los Angeles and Chicago and Houston with major targets of value fit into the list where appropriate (like Washington D.C. being target numero uno, for instance).
So Point Lookout didn't take a single hit, but still suffers radiation poisoning just like surrounding communities to Chernobyl. The whole world would be like that. As someone else noted, the bombs that would have been dropped would have been designed to cause immensely more damage than the Chernobyl disaster, and be many many more times powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
It's hard to know which cities did and didn't get hit (like we're learning Las Vegas apparently didn't take a direct hit thanks to the upcoming F:NV), but it is probably safe to assume that enough did that pretty much everywhere the globe over has been seriously affected by the fallout because somewhere nearby DID.
In the final showdown, all of these nuclear armed countries would have reduced each other's major cities and points of strategic interest to ash during that 'everything and the kitchen sink' two hour 'Great War' bombardment. Assuming population centers were at all similar to our world for the sake of argument, the target list would run right down the census charts from New York to Los Angeles and Chicago and Houston with major targets of value fit into the list where appropriate (like Washington D.C. being target numero uno, for instance).
So Point Lookout didn't take a single hit, but still suffers radiation poisoning just like surrounding communities to Chernobyl. The whole world would be like that. As someone else noted, the bombs that would have been dropped would have been designed to cause immensely more damage than the Chernobyl disaster, and be many many more times powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
It's hard to know which cities did and didn't get hit (like we're learning Las Vegas apparently didn't take a direct hit thanks to the upcoming F:NV), but it is probably safe to assume that enough did that pretty much everywhere the globe over has been seriously affected by the fallout because somewhere nearby DID.
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Tarka - Posts: 3430
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:22 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:48 am
1) Nuka-cola and other food were in MASSIVE demand, meaning that at the low popularion that the wasteland is at, it would last a long time, maybe even 200 years or more.
2) This isn't Chernobyl, its a massive nuclear war, a hell of a ot more radiation than Chernobyl had.
3) See above
4) This game is what the people in the 50's expected the future to look like, and how "physics" work. In the 50's, people thought you would end of like a Ghoul after radiation. Its all about the retro-sci-fi.
5) Its the art direction of the game, I feel it adds to it. Its much better than walking around listening to hip hop, rap or any other "new" music types.
6) If you look at the weapons, they are in terrible condition, its only 200 years, and for a large part of that, people how been sauaging and repairing the weapons. Not to forget the military probably had some sort of vault for there weapons.
7) Electronics are different from real life ones, its, like I said above, what the 50's mind thought electronics would be like, a lot stronger than they actually are today.
2) This isn't Chernobyl, its a massive nuclear war, a hell of a ot more radiation than Chernobyl had.
3) See above
4) This game is what the people in the 50's expected the future to look like, and how "physics" work. In the 50's, people thought you would end of like a Ghoul after radiation. Its all about the retro-sci-fi.
5) Its the art direction of the game, I feel it adds to it. Its much better than walking around listening to hip hop, rap or any other "new" music types.
6) If you look at the weapons, they are in terrible condition, its only 200 years, and for a large part of that, people how been sauaging and repairing the weapons. Not to forget the military probably had some sort of vault for there weapons.
7) Electronics are different from real life ones, its, like I said above, what the 50's mind thought electronics would be like, a lot stronger than they actually are today.
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Elena Alina - Posts: 3415
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:24 am
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:08 am
-There was a worldwide dark rain filled with so much fallout that it made the soil uninhabitable for most plant life. Since everything but the hardiest of plants were dead and could not reproduce, they went extinct.
-Ghouls are the product of a unique DNA trait that causes a reaction to a light amount of radiation for a prolonged period of time. It's science fiction.
-Harold is a mutant. It's science fiction.
-Ghouls are the product of a unique DNA trait that causes a reaction to a light amount of radiation for a prolonged period of time. It's science fiction.
-Harold is a mutant. It's science fiction.
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Matt Bigelow - Posts: 3350
- Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:36 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:12 am
Well really, society was wiped out quite a bit. I'm guessing only a tiny tiny tiny percent of the population of the world survived the nuclear holocaust. So, it's not like there is going to be large scale governments like countries with such small populations.
EDIT: Also, in chernobyl, one would have seeds that could be blown or carried by animals from nearby areas. Everything was dead after the bombs fell, leaving nothing to re-grow like a seed. That's why there were supposed to be GECKs.
EDIT: Also, in chernobyl, one would have seeds that could be blown or carried by animals from nearby areas. Everything was dead after the bombs fell, leaving nothing to re-grow like a seed. That's why there were supposed to be GECKs.
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Alisia Lisha - Posts: 3480
- Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:52 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:55 am
A most enjoyable read, and the troll posts are just precious too. Thanks for a good waste of 20 minutes 
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Taylah Haines - Posts: 3439
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:10 am
» Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:10 pm
A most enjoyable read, and the troll posts are just precious too. Thanks for a good waste of 20 minutes
Kind of confusing post there. I DID find it an enjoyable read, but I like the Fallout lore a good bit. I thought it was 20 minutes well spent, heh.
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..xX Vin Xx.. - Posts: 3531
- Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:33 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:11 am
First, let me say that I love Fallout 3. It has given me many hours of fun and enjoyment. But like all geeks I can't help but pick apart the plausibility (or lack thereof) of some of my favorite fictional entertainment. There comes a point at which the willing suspension of disbelief gives out and you have to point out the obvious absurdities of what you're looking at no matter how fictitious it is supposed to be. Particularly if it tries to sell itself as realistic, or at least plausible. So it is that below I will list some of the most glaring problems I can think of that arise simply because of the condition of the world in the game 200 years after the bombs fell. I might find it easier to swallow if the game took place 50 years after the bombs fell, but not 200! Since I'm only human I'm bound to miss a few things so please feel free to add the things that stand out to you the most.
1) Prepackaged prewar foods
It's been 200 years since the last bottle of Nuka Cola was bottled, the last box of Sugar Bombs was packaged, and the last carton of Blamo! Mac and Cheese was shipped out. Yet somehow not only are these prepackaged prewar foods and drinks still around in great abundance, having somehow avoided hungry scroungers like the Lone Wanderer by hiding in plain sight for centuries, but they are also still edible! I'm sorry people, but even Spam has an expiration date. Don't believe me; check the bottom of the can next time you're in the grocery store. Even IF the preservatives in the food keep your Cram from rotting and boll weevil eggs from hatching in your Sugar Bombs, do you really think those Dandy Boy Apples aren't fossilized by now after sitting around for 200 years? Bear in mind, I'm not talking about the squirrel on a stick or the brahman steak or other such confections as can be made in the wasteland. I'm only talking about the prepackaged food and drink that nobody has produced since the bombs fell and has apparently been sitting around untouched just waiting for your character to come around and feast on them. I mean really. You think your Coka Cola is flat after sitting around in the open for a day or so? Your character is running around chugging sodas that have been sitting around in the open for literally hundreds of years! I would think that's ANYTHING but refreshing! And you're surprised that one of the ingredients for the Nuka Grenade are 200 year old Nuka Cola Quantums!
2) All the foliage is dead
For this argument I would like to point out our good old friend, Chernobyl. They had a nuclear meltdown at their power plant over 20 years ago. The gamma radiation killed off and sterilized everything for miles around. It's only been about 20 years and all the vegetation has grown back, overtaking the buildings people once occupied. I would think that after 200 years the trees will have recovered enough to where there would be insane forestation. Ah, but green trees don't look as desolate and hopeless as a barren wasteland, and that just kills the mood. Well, if they never came back, then all the trees we see in the game must be petrified.
3) Everything is still irradiated
Once again, Chernobyl. If the ground and water were still so irradiated that you could get radiation poisoning from it then do you really think that the plants and animals would have come back in force like they have? After just 20 years? Radiation doesn't sit around forever, it does dissipate.
4) Ghouls
Have you SEEN real people who were exposed to as much radiation as the ghouls apparently were!? Not only do they look nothing like that, but even if they did, that much damage caused by radiation would not make you immortal! As a matter of fact you would die much quicker than an ordinary human would. You would have hours, maybe days, not hundreds of years like these jokers. Oh, and the Chinese ghouls still fighting a war that ended 200 years ago?.HILARIOUS! Seriously, just ditch the rotting bodies; pick an old building, AND HAUNT IT ALREADY!
5) Society at large has yet to move on
Seriously, guys, it's been 200 years, more than enough time for new countries to form. Not just city-states, countries. Let's look at the last quasi-apocalyptic event that happened to humanity which we survived: the fall of the Roman Empire. No, really, people back then thought that the world was coming to an end. How long did it take for new countries to spring up from the corpse of the Roman Empire? Yeah.
Oh, and the fact that individual people have yet to get over the fact that the US is gone is absurd. It's been 200 years, none of these people reminiscing about the glory days of America were even alive back then! Take for example the psycho cannibal happy families in Andale. In one of your conversations with them one of them says something to the effect of, "I think it's every American's God-given right to vote for their favorite Republican candidate! I sure didn't vote for no commie liberal, no sir!" What the hell is he talking about?!?!?! The US as we know it ended at least 160 years before this nut job was born! What the frakk does he know about liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats? What does he know about what their party lines were and what their rivalries where about? Just to put things in perspective for you let's look back 200 year ago from today to the year 1810. How many of you know that the two major parties back then were the Democrats and the Wigs? No the Wigs were not the precursors to the Republicans, they were a different political party with a different party line and agenda all together. And who among you actually remembers the Wigs party lines, policies, or even what their feuds with the Democrats where about? Better yet how many of you CARE? It's been 200 years and the Wigs are no longer relevant. Ergo, what is a closet cannibal doing touting the party line of a political party that ceased to exist 200 years ago?
Furthermore, "President" John Henry Eden and his talk about baseball just kills me. Seriously? Seriously. I don't care what he really is; nobody has played baseball in 200 years. I didn't even know that the team known as the Capital Congressmen existed until I played this game. How would anyone who lives 200 years after the team ceases to exist know or care? Does anybody play anymore? Does anyone even remember how to play? Why oh why would you think that describing a sport that has been dead for centuries would inspire patriotism? Wait don't answer that! I know the answer and it is still absurd. I mean, really, would you try to inspire patriotism in Mexicans by talking to them about those crazy death sports that the Meso Americans played? I'm sure your average Mexican citizen would call you loco if you promised to bring those sports back as a way of inspiring hope in them. I know, bad anology. You don't kill the losing team in baseball, but you get my point.
And another thing, why are people still living in old, half destroyed houses after 200 years? People build, people repair, people rebuild. Societies do not set up in half destroyed ruins, sleeping on pre Armageddon beds for the rest of their existence. Megaton was neat, I liked it, but places like Canterbury Commons, Paradise Falls, and a whole bunch of other cities are just absurd. It's been 200 years, move on already!
6) Prewar technology and weapons still work
The idea that machines never age and they can just last forever is an old, flawed, faulty science fiction idea from the 70s. Machines may not "age" like people do, but parts break over time with regular use, mineral deposits build up on guns that render then useless, circuits wear down, and many metals do rust. Time wears down all things, be it mountain or machine. Have any of you tried to use a 200 year old weapon? I mean really just picked up a 200 year old weapon and tried to kill something with it? Or how about a 200 year old gun? Without even servicing it or refurbishing it, have you tried to load and shoot it? No, you wouldn't even think about doing that because you don't know what might happen. Forget Indiana Jones, really old technology build by old civilizations does not keep working after hundreds or even thousands of years. Especially if it is a complex piece of machinery, I don't care who built it. Sure a sun dial may still work, good as new no matter how long it has been around, but do you really think you can just pick up a bazooka that was used in World War 1 and fire it off as though it was brand new if it had been sitting in a basemant all this time without proper maintenance or upkeep? How about if it was sitting in that basemant for 200 years? Would you really trust that same bazooka to work in the year 2120? What about the ammo? Do you honestly think those 200 year-old rockets will work at all, let alone work like they were made yesterday? The Brotherhood of Steel maintaining and up keeping the technology that they guard is one thing. Finding a Chinese assault rifle in a cave, picking it up, and immediately using it to fill raiders with lead is another thing entirely.
Don't even get me started on the electrically activated doors and robots still working like new after 200 years. Like I said, parts break over time with regular use.
7 Electronics and lights still function
The fact that 200 year old light bulbs still work is extremely laughable, I don't care what type of bulb they are. I shouldn't have to explain why. How do I know that the bulbs are 200 years old? Think about it; have you seen a fully functional and productive manufacturing plant of ANY kind in the Wasteland? Who's building these new light bulbs? I also love these computers in old abandoned buildings that still turn on when you push the power button and operate like normal. Forget the fact that these things are primitive by our standards today, circuits still wear down given long enough.
I've got an even better question for all of you. Where is the electricity coming from? Last I checked all the power plants are in disuse, abandoned, and filled with feral ghouls. Where is the electricity coming from? Never mind the fact that a reactor has to be completely replaced with brand spanking new parts before it even gets close to the 200 year mark or it breaks down utterly. Parts break over time with regular use. Who is supplying power to a grid that has been in disrepair for a couple of centuries? And how does any of it still work. Do you know how much maintenance it takes to keep those grids working in the here and now when they haven't been hit with nukes? It is insanely difficult. And you think that the power plants will just keep on running 200 years after they've been abandoned? Yeah right.
And what about the generators that Tenpenny Tower, the Citadel, and other such places run on? Last I checked generators run on gasoline, and where does gasoline come from when society collapses? Nowhere, that's where. And don't tell me it's a nuclear generator. Let me explain to you the whole point of a nuclear reactor: it's to boil water. I'm not kidding you. The reactor superheats the water, and then super pressurized super hot steam is channeled through pipes to turn a turbine like a water mill, which generates electricity. Where is the water in these generators? Where is the cooling tower to re-condense the water to be boiled again? I'm telling you, these generators run on pixie dust! Pixie dust solves everything!
Anyway, that's it for me. If you guys have anything that you would like to add or comment on, you know what to do. And to those of you who want to tell me, "It's only fiction, shut up and enjoy the game," I say to you, I have/do enjoy the game, and now I'm enjoying geeking out over its implausibilities. Enjoy!
P.S. edit
To all those who claim that there is no plant life in the world of Fallout, I would like to point out a few quid pro quos.
1) Harold. If you know what I'm talking about then you know what I mean. I tried not to spoil anything concerning "President" Eden, and I'm not going to do it for Harold.
2) Muitfruit. What is it and where does it come from?
3) Point Look out. The bombs didn't fall there and it's a bit of a swamp. And there is a weird fruit that is grown there.
4) In the first Fallout game the first town I ran into was a farming town. That's right, a FARM town. They were growing crops. With a high enough science skill you could advise them on crop rotation. Please, nobody be stupid and tell me that crops don't count. Hey, anyone remember meeting Tandy? Don't ask me why I remember.
1) Prepackaged prewar foods
It's been 200 years since the last bottle of Nuka Cola was bottled, the last box of Sugar Bombs was packaged, and the last carton of Blamo! Mac and Cheese was shipped out. Yet somehow not only are these prepackaged prewar foods and drinks still around in great abundance, having somehow avoided hungry scroungers like the Lone Wanderer by hiding in plain sight for centuries, but they are also still edible! I'm sorry people, but even Spam has an expiration date. Don't believe me; check the bottom of the can next time you're in the grocery store. Even IF the preservatives in the food keep your Cram from rotting and boll weevil eggs from hatching in your Sugar Bombs, do you really think those Dandy Boy Apples aren't fossilized by now after sitting around for 200 years? Bear in mind, I'm not talking about the squirrel on a stick or the brahman steak or other such confections as can be made in the wasteland. I'm only talking about the prepackaged food and drink that nobody has produced since the bombs fell and has apparently been sitting around untouched just waiting for your character to come around and feast on them. I mean really. You think your Coka Cola is flat after sitting around in the open for a day or so? Your character is running around chugging sodas that have been sitting around in the open for literally hundreds of years! I would think that's ANYTHING but refreshing! And you're surprised that one of the ingredients for the Nuka Grenade are 200 year old Nuka Cola Quantums!
2) All the foliage is dead
For this argument I would like to point out our good old friend, Chernobyl. They had a nuclear meltdown at their power plant over 20 years ago. The gamma radiation killed off and sterilized everything for miles around. It's only been about 20 years and all the vegetation has grown back, overtaking the buildings people once occupied. I would think that after 200 years the trees will have recovered enough to where there would be insane forestation. Ah, but green trees don't look as desolate and hopeless as a barren wasteland, and that just kills the mood. Well, if they never came back, then all the trees we see in the game must be petrified.
3) Everything is still irradiated
Once again, Chernobyl. If the ground and water were still so irradiated that you could get radiation poisoning from it then do you really think that the plants and animals would have come back in force like they have? After just 20 years? Radiation doesn't sit around forever, it does dissipate.
4) Ghouls
Have you SEEN real people who were exposed to as much radiation as the ghouls apparently were!? Not only do they look nothing like that, but even if they did, that much damage caused by radiation would not make you immortal! As a matter of fact you would die much quicker than an ordinary human would. You would have hours, maybe days, not hundreds of years like these jokers. Oh, and the Chinese ghouls still fighting a war that ended 200 years ago?.HILARIOUS! Seriously, just ditch the rotting bodies; pick an old building, AND HAUNT IT ALREADY!
5) Society at large has yet to move on
Seriously, guys, it's been 200 years, more than enough time for new countries to form. Not just city-states, countries. Let's look at the last quasi-apocalyptic event that happened to humanity which we survived: the fall of the Roman Empire. No, really, people back then thought that the world was coming to an end. How long did it take for new countries to spring up from the corpse of the Roman Empire? Yeah.
Oh, and the fact that individual people have yet to get over the fact that the US is gone is absurd. It's been 200 years, none of these people reminiscing about the glory days of America were even alive back then! Take for example the psycho cannibal happy families in Andale. In one of your conversations with them one of them says something to the effect of, "I think it's every American's God-given right to vote for their favorite Republican candidate! I sure didn't vote for no commie liberal, no sir!" What the hell is he talking about?!?!?! The US as we know it ended at least 160 years before this nut job was born! What the frakk does he know about liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats? What does he know about what their party lines were and what their rivalries where about? Just to put things in perspective for you let's look back 200 year ago from today to the year 1810. How many of you know that the two major parties back then were the Democrats and the Wigs? No the Wigs were not the precursors to the Republicans, they were a different political party with a different party line and agenda all together. And who among you actually remembers the Wigs party lines, policies, or even what their feuds with the Democrats where about? Better yet how many of you CARE? It's been 200 years and the Wigs are no longer relevant. Ergo, what is a closet cannibal doing touting the party line of a political party that ceased to exist 200 years ago?
Furthermore, "President" John Henry Eden and his talk about baseball just kills me. Seriously? Seriously. I don't care what he really is; nobody has played baseball in 200 years. I didn't even know that the team known as the Capital Congressmen existed until I played this game. How would anyone who lives 200 years after the team ceases to exist know or care? Does anybody play anymore? Does anyone even remember how to play? Why oh why would you think that describing a sport that has been dead for centuries would inspire patriotism? Wait don't answer that! I know the answer and it is still absurd. I mean, really, would you try to inspire patriotism in Mexicans by talking to them about those crazy death sports that the Meso Americans played? I'm sure your average Mexican citizen would call you loco if you promised to bring those sports back as a way of inspiring hope in them. I know, bad anology. You don't kill the losing team in baseball, but you get my point.
And another thing, why are people still living in old, half destroyed houses after 200 years? People build, people repair, people rebuild. Societies do not set up in half destroyed ruins, sleeping on pre Armageddon beds for the rest of their existence. Megaton was neat, I liked it, but places like Canterbury Commons, Paradise Falls, and a whole bunch of other cities are just absurd. It's been 200 years, move on already!
6) Prewar technology and weapons still work
The idea that machines never age and they can just last forever is an old, flawed, faulty science fiction idea from the 70s. Machines may not "age" like people do, but parts break over time with regular use, mineral deposits build up on guns that render then useless, circuits wear down, and many metals do rust. Time wears down all things, be it mountain or machine. Have any of you tried to use a 200 year old weapon? I mean really just picked up a 200 year old weapon and tried to kill something with it? Or how about a 200 year old gun? Without even servicing it or refurbishing it, have you tried to load and shoot it? No, you wouldn't even think about doing that because you don't know what might happen. Forget Indiana Jones, really old technology build by old civilizations does not keep working after hundreds or even thousands of years. Especially if it is a complex piece of machinery, I don't care who built it. Sure a sun dial may still work, good as new no matter how long it has been around, but do you really think you can just pick up a bazooka that was used in World War 1 and fire it off as though it was brand new if it had been sitting in a basemant all this time without proper maintenance or upkeep? How about if it was sitting in that basemant for 200 years? Would you really trust that same bazooka to work in the year 2120? What about the ammo? Do you honestly think those 200 year-old rockets will work at all, let alone work like they were made yesterday? The Brotherhood of Steel maintaining and up keeping the technology that they guard is one thing. Finding a Chinese assault rifle in a cave, picking it up, and immediately using it to fill raiders with lead is another thing entirely.
Don't even get me started on the electrically activated doors and robots still working like new after 200 years. Like I said, parts break over time with regular use.
7 Electronics and lights still function
The fact that 200 year old light bulbs still work is extremely laughable, I don't care what type of bulb they are. I shouldn't have to explain why. How do I know that the bulbs are 200 years old? Think about it; have you seen a fully functional and productive manufacturing plant of ANY kind in the Wasteland? Who's building these new light bulbs? I also love these computers in old abandoned buildings that still turn on when you push the power button and operate like normal. Forget the fact that these things are primitive by our standards today, circuits still wear down given long enough.
I've got an even better question for all of you. Where is the electricity coming from? Last I checked all the power plants are in disuse, abandoned, and filled with feral ghouls. Where is the electricity coming from? Never mind the fact that a reactor has to be completely replaced with brand spanking new parts before it even gets close to the 200 year mark or it breaks down utterly. Parts break over time with regular use. Who is supplying power to a grid that has been in disrepair for a couple of centuries? And how does any of it still work. Do you know how much maintenance it takes to keep those grids working in the here and now when they haven't been hit with nukes? It is insanely difficult. And you think that the power plants will just keep on running 200 years after they've been abandoned? Yeah right.
And what about the generators that Tenpenny Tower, the Citadel, and other such places run on? Last I checked generators run on gasoline, and where does gasoline come from when society collapses? Nowhere, that's where. And don't tell me it's a nuclear generator. Let me explain to you the whole point of a nuclear reactor: it's to boil water. I'm not kidding you. The reactor superheats the water, and then super pressurized super hot steam is channeled through pipes to turn a turbine like a water mill, which generates electricity. Where is the water in these generators? Where is the cooling tower to re-condense the water to be boiled again? I'm telling you, these generators run on pixie dust! Pixie dust solves everything!
Anyway, that's it for me. If you guys have anything that you would like to add or comment on, you know what to do. And to those of you who want to tell me, "It's only fiction, shut up and enjoy the game," I say to you, I have/do enjoy the game, and now I'm enjoying geeking out over its implausibilities. Enjoy!
P.S. edit
To all those who claim that there is no plant life in the world of Fallout, I would like to point out a few quid pro quos.
1) Harold. If you know what I'm talking about then you know what I mean. I tried not to spoil anything concerning "President" Eden, and I'm not going to do it for Harold.
2) Muitfruit. What is it and where does it come from?
3) Point Look out. The bombs didn't fall there and it's a bit of a swamp. And there is a weird fruit that is grown there.
4) In the first Fallout game the first town I ran into was a farming town. That's right, a FARM town. They were growing crops. With a high enough science skill you could advise them on crop rotation. Please, nobody be stupid and tell me that crops don't count. Hey, anyone remember meeting Tandy? Don't ask me why I remember.
1)Agreed
2) Clearly those bushes aren't dead, but since most trees have been destroied in the area, they have not successfully re-established themselves. Also, grass.
3)Chernobyl was only one plant, bombs tend to put out more than a plant like Chernobyl when greatly amassed. Most of the world was doused in Fallout.
4)This is an alternate universe with physics based on 50s' sci-fi, at witch point it was theorized that prolonged exposure to high ammounts of radiation would cause mutations in genetic tissue. This is known to be false, but not in 1950. Hence, h00manz = ghouls. Super Mutants are a result of massive FEV exposure, although a great deal of at least America have minor FEV contamination.
5) A great deal of information was destroied. NCR is basically a small country. PS. Most Simi-Apoc things that happened where never as bad as humanity loosing its technological crutch. People can adapt to farming and living of the land when they do it every day. I'd like to see us manage as well as the BoS, NCR, or any others after we loose the internet, fast food, and utilities.
6) Notice how most of the weapons in FO3 are still working are Military weapons. Also, these are military weapons from 2077, not 1900. Also, have you seen a blackpowder 1800's rifle? If you mantain it and clean it every once and a while, I guarintee you can drop someone with it. As for the other ones, as long as you mantain most of the weapons from FO1&2 should be good.
7) For one thing, most 1950 computers could still function now, and since most Fallout tech uses mostly Capacitors instead of Microchips. (As the microchip was invented shortly before the 2077 world expiration date.) Capacitors have a far grater life span. A great deal of information in computers is minor, as you can tell, and only Vault-tec Facilities and the Enclave really have much for those consoles to connect to. As for electronics such as lights, we dont have enough real hard info on light bulbs created in an alternate universe set in the future.
Electricity has mostly been converted to small fusion generators. Not fission, fusion. The only reason the resource war was going on during 2077 was that the Chinese had not nearly enough resources to convert to Fusion, and we didn't have enough to fully convert.
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Anna Beattie - Posts: 3512
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:59 am
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:31 am
I think you're thinking of valves (also known as "vacuum tubes"), not capacitors. As far as I'm aware, they're significantly less reliable than transistors, although they're apparently less sensitive to EMP. How about that?
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Esther Fernandez - Posts: 3415
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:52 am
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:45 am
well seeing as how dc would have been hit by quite a few huge bombs i would think that it could be possible that the area was completely uninhabitable for the majority of the 200 years only being semi livable in the last 50 or so explaining why some of the stuff you are seeing is still there well thats how i wrapped my brain around it anyway besides you would need at least a couple of hundred years to have the crazy evolution of some of the creatures as for the rest of it well it is sci fi
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Erin S - Posts: 3416
- Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:06 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:46 am
I don't think man made structures decay that quickly..
Washington DC was built on a swamp. A 100kt airburst above the Mall would vaporize almost all of DC and flatten the rest. Total Destruction + 200 years of neglect = DC reverts to the swamp from whence it came.
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Scott Clemmons - Posts: 3333
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:35 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:08 am
well seeing as how dc would have been hit by quite a few huge bombs i would think that it could be possible that the area was completely uninhabitable for the majority of the 200 years only being semi livable in the last 50 or so explaining why some of the stuff you are seeing is still there well thats how i wrapped my brain around it anyway besides you would need at least a couple of hundred years to have the crazy evolution of some of the creatures as for the rest of it well it is sci fi
I think you're right......Megaton and Underworld were founded right after the War, what is now the Republic of Dave was founded by survivalists up in the hills before the war even began.....but every other settlement except possibly Paradise Falls is less than 50 years old. Even Rivet City wasn't officially founded until 2239.
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Hilm Music - Posts: 3357
- Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:36 pm
» Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:24 pm
I think you're right......Megaton and Underworld were founded right after the War, what is now the Republic of Dave was founded by survivalists up in the hills before the war even began.....but every other settlement except possibly Paradise Falls is less than 50 years old. Even Rivet City wasn't officially founded until 2239.
I'd forgotten about that from Pinkerton's logs. Was it ever explained where they came from? Were he and his team of scientists from the Commonwealth?
It'd be interesting to get a better glimpse of areas of rebuilt civilization around the globe that have advanced back enough to the point that they've actually established order to the degree that people are being educated/trained to be scientists and similar. The NCR has sprung up from the dust on the North American west coast, and the Commonwealth is on the east coast. Texas is supposed to have some civilization as well right?
Moriarty (or his dad?) came from Europe on a ship, so they've managed enough community to support large seafaring vessels capable to crossing the oceans. I wonder how Australia did? Were they any more of a target for mutually assured destruction than they probably would be today?
The USA was pounded pretty mercilessly, China and the USSR would have been reduced to rubble just as bad. Europe would have gotten pounded and much of the Middle East apparently since they hated each other. Some places that suffered the fallout of the massive nuclear exchange like everywhere else but were basically left out of being hit themselves had to exist though. Heck, if decent sized cities in the USA like Las Vegas didn't even get hit, surely entire countries in South America and Africa didn't get touched.
Anyway, it'd be fun to find out that there were centers of human civilization in Africa, South America and possibly Australia that are living on a level equal to the Commonwealth or better.
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BEl J - Posts: 3397
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:12 am
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:29 am
In case no one explained the power in this Thread, (Which they may have but I couldn't be [censored] to read the whole thing) the power in Fallout 3 at least is used with 'Fusion'. Have you ever heard of it? No? Then you obviously don't know a whole heap about science. That and the fact that in truth, humanity could quite easily NOW create light bulbs etc. that could last for nigh-on forever; why don't they do this you ask? Because if they did, that would destroy the economy, meaning no one would need to buy any more than... Say... 10 Light-bulbs, maybe buying one or two every few years if someone breaks it with force.
Everything else has been explained from what little I read. I think.
Everything else has been explained from what little I read. I think.
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Toby Green - Posts: 3365
- Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:27 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:56 am
1) Prepackaged prewar foods
Who knows what is in that package? That sugar bomb you just ate, might have been wrapped up petrified Brahmin[censored] dung. 
It's entirely possible that people (coughraiderscough) just put mole rat meat between some bloatfly wings and put it in a fancy box. Or drank irradiated water and then pissed in a bottle, put a fancy cap on it and tadaa 'Nuka Cola Quantium'!
Jokes aside, I thought the same things when I was playing '3 too.
Who knows what is in that package? That sugar bomb you just ate, might have been wrapped up petrified Brahmin
It's entirely possible that people (coughraiderscough) just put mole rat meat between some bloatfly wings and put it in a fancy box. Or drank irradiated water and then pissed in a bottle, put a fancy cap on it and tadaa 'Nuka Cola Quantium'!
Jokes aside, I thought the same things when I was playing '3 too.
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Trista Jim - Posts: 3308
- Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:39 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:18 am
This is mostly gonna be a repeat of what other people have said, but I think it's worth people reading again.
It's science fiction. Let's take Star Trek for example. Everything about it is impossible. The aliens, the weapons, the spacecraft... but do people question it? No, 'cause they suspend their disbelief. That's what you have to do with Fallout. Of course it couldn't happen, but so what? Oblivion couldn't happen either. Magic? Impossible. Does anyone complain about that?
The weapons, electricity, food... that all falls under the "science fiction" banner as well.
But other than that... let's compare Fallout 1&2 with Fallout 3. The original Fallouts were set on the west coast of America, and had more Vaults (with less fatal Vault Experiments going on), which led to a bigger population. They also weren't hit as hard as the east coast (makes sense, as DC would've been a bigger target), so plant life actually managed to survive. This led to farms developing, as well as actual cities and new nations (the New California Republic, for example).
On the other hand, DC was blown to hell. No plants survived, so nothing can actually grow (where are the seeds gonna come from?). Harold is from the west coast, where plants actually exist, which is how he managed to create Oasis. Given time, the plants will spread out over the Capital Wasteland. Same goes for Point Lookout. Most people in Point Lookout are violent, inbred mutants that probably kill most travelers on sight, and the place is probably rather far away, but with merchants bringing Punga fruit to the Wasteland, we'll probably see some Punga plants growing in DC in a few years. But all these plants being introduced to DC are very recent developments. Same goes for clean water. Sure, the game just calls it radiation, but it's more likely it's not just radiation in the water. With all the poor living conditions and no plant life to keep the water oxidized, it'd be stagnant, and full of disease. Nobody wants to drink that.
On top of the lack of plant life, very few people in DC actually survived. The Vaults (keep in mind they can only make them so big in-game, and there's probably lower levels we don't see) had Vault Experiments going on that were unlikely to produce many survivors, and Vault 101, being the only Vault yet to fail, is completely cut off from the outside world.
So, what we're left with, is a tiny hunter-gatherer population (probably kept small because the high radiation levels prevent many children from surviving, and most advlts are probably sterile) that want to kill each other. Most people in DC have turned to preying on one another to survive (ie Raiders), so there's a high death toll, and not much chance of rebuilding society to any meaningful level.
It's science fiction. Let's take Star Trek for example. Everything about it is impossible. The aliens, the weapons, the spacecraft... but do people question it? No, 'cause they suspend their disbelief. That's what you have to do with Fallout. Of course it couldn't happen, but so what? Oblivion couldn't happen either. Magic? Impossible. Does anyone complain about that?
The weapons, electricity, food... that all falls under the "science fiction" banner as well.
But other than that... let's compare Fallout 1&2 with Fallout 3. The original Fallouts were set on the west coast of America, and had more Vaults (with less fatal Vault Experiments going on), which led to a bigger population. They also weren't hit as hard as the east coast (makes sense, as DC would've been a bigger target), so plant life actually managed to survive. This led to farms developing, as well as actual cities and new nations (the New California Republic, for example).
On the other hand, DC was blown to hell. No plants survived, so nothing can actually grow (where are the seeds gonna come from?). Harold is from the west coast, where plants actually exist, which is how he managed to create Oasis. Given time, the plants will spread out over the Capital Wasteland. Same goes for Point Lookout. Most people in Point Lookout are violent, inbred mutants that probably kill most travelers on sight, and the place is probably rather far away, but with merchants bringing Punga fruit to the Wasteland, we'll probably see some Punga plants growing in DC in a few years. But all these plants being introduced to DC are very recent developments. Same goes for clean water. Sure, the game just calls it radiation, but it's more likely it's not just radiation in the water. With all the poor living conditions and no plant life to keep the water oxidized, it'd be stagnant, and full of disease. Nobody wants to drink that.
On top of the lack of plant life, very few people in DC actually survived. The Vaults (keep in mind they can only make them so big in-game, and there's probably lower levels we don't see) had Vault Experiments going on that were unlikely to produce many survivors, and Vault 101, being the only Vault yet to fail, is completely cut off from the outside world.
So, what we're left with, is a tiny hunter-gatherer population (probably kept small because the high radiation levels prevent many children from surviving, and most advlts are probably sterile) that want to kill each other. Most people in DC have turned to preying on one another to survive (ie Raiders), so there's a high death toll, and not much chance of rebuilding society to any meaningful level.
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Big mike - Posts: 3423
- Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:38 pm
» Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:51 pm
In the fallout universe miniaturised fission and fusion reactors have been perfected, which means almost unlimited energy, especially since they where not used.
Another thing, you would be surprised how long weapons can last for unattended, during WW2 the Island of Crete was invaded by the Germans, they defended them selves using 70-50 year old rifles that where buried underground on beaches. Also in Vietnam, locals used outdated Kalashnikov assult rifles, most of which had spent several years under water.
Nuka Cola is carbonised and air tight, so no it would not go flat, and the sugar would preserve it.
Chernobyl is not overgrown, I have seen film of the ruins being explored, and to be honest they look very much like the interiors in F3.
Society wont have moved on because it won't have seen a reason too also, are rivet city, megaton and such places contradictory to that statement?
It is after all science fiction :s You don't yell at star wars that they can't have lights on at the speed of light.
Another thing, you would be surprised how long weapons can last for unattended, during WW2 the Island of Crete was invaded by the Germans, they defended them selves using 70-50 year old rifles that where buried underground on beaches. Also in Vietnam, locals used outdated Kalashnikov assult rifles, most of which had spent several years under water.
Nuka Cola is carbonised and air tight, so no it would not go flat, and the sugar would preserve it.
Chernobyl is not overgrown, I have seen film of the ruins being explored, and to be honest they look very much like the interiors in F3.
Society wont have moved on because it won't have seen a reason too also, are rivet city, megaton and such places contradictory to that statement?
It is after all science fiction :s You don't yell at star wars that they can't have lights on at the speed of light.
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Dragonz Dancer - Posts: 3441
- Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:01 am
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:26 am
I have one explanation that covers all of what you said (which was quite a bit.). I know you think you have made a lot of valid and logical points and I know that people saying it is just a game are failing to grasp your intellectual criticism. But there is an explanation and here it goes so listen carefully:
The Fallout Universe is not our own. The Fallout Universe is an alternate universe. Everything I have ever read by Stephen Hawking and Michio Kaku and other geniuses who know about real science say that the laws of other universes aren't likely to match our own. In the Fallout Universe 2077 was alot like our fifties which should give us a huge clue as to why radiation, nutrition and whether people still fear Communism two centuries after the apocalypse. In other words you have failed to take account that Fallout is based on what people imagined would happen if there was an atomic war while they feared it during the fifties. Since all possible universes exist (according to the great minds in our own) not only is everything in Fallout 100% accurate but somewhere out there it really exists. And the voice of god there sounds like Ron Perlman and President Eden talks about baseball in Malcolm Mcdowal's voice. Also electricity, ghoulification and chinese assault rifles in caves all work no matter what.
The Fallout Universe is not our own. The Fallout Universe is an alternate universe. Everything I have ever read by Stephen Hawking and Michio Kaku and other geniuses who know about real science say that the laws of other universes aren't likely to match our own. In the Fallout Universe 2077 was alot like our fifties which should give us a huge clue as to why radiation, nutrition and whether people still fear Communism two centuries after the apocalypse. In other words you have failed to take account that Fallout is based on what people imagined would happen if there was an atomic war while they feared it during the fifties. Since all possible universes exist (according to the great minds in our own) not only is everything in Fallout 100% accurate but somewhere out there it really exists. And the voice of god there sounds like Ron Perlman and President Eden talks about baseball in Malcolm Mcdowal's voice. Also electricity, ghoulification and chinese assault rifles in caves all work no matter what.
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Lucky Girl - Posts: 3486
- Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:14 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:59 am
Anyway, it'd be fun to find out that there were centers of human civilization in Africa, South America and possibly Australia that are living on a level equal to the Commonwealth or better.
[/quote]
I'd also like to see whats happend to other countries, but what your forgetting is that the before the "great war" there was the resourse war where every country was fighting over the few resourses that where left, it's possible that by the time of the events in the Fallout games these other countries may have log since torn themselfs apart because of the lack of resourses.
[/quote]
I'd also like to see whats happend to other countries, but what your forgetting is that the before the "great war" there was the resourse war where every country was fighting over the few resourses that where left, it's possible that by the time of the events in the Fallout games these other countries may have log since torn themselfs apart because of the lack of resourses.
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alicia hillier - Posts: 3387
- Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:57 am
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:43 am
Anyway, it'd be fun to find out that there were centers of human civilization in Africa, South America and possibly Australia that are living on a level equal to the Commonwealth or better.
I'd also like to see whats happend to other countries, but what your forgetting is that the before the "great war" there was the resourse war where every country was fighting over the few resourses that where left, it's possible that by the time of the events in the Fallout games these other countries may have log since torn themselfs apart because of the lack of resourses.
I'd also like to see whats happend to other countries, but what your forgetting is that the before the "great war" there was the resourse war where every country was fighting over the few resourses that where left, it's possible that by the time of the events in the Fallout games these other countries may have log since torn themselfs apart because of the lack of resourses.
With America annexing Canada and the Chinese invading Alaska I'd tend to agree.
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Emmanuel Morales - Posts: 3433
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:03 pm
» Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:31 am
1) they used radiation to sterilized the food which killed any bacteria that gets into the package the food is in, the reason they have not all been eaten already is a mystery but if you look at the amount of people in the wasteland at the time there actually is not that many.
2) the amount of bombs dropped on the DC area obliterated every living plant, if there are no plants they cannot regrow. also the soil and water is irradiated which would ionize living cells and cause cancers (which would kill the plant).
3) again this is because of the massive amount of bombs dropped on DC.
4) people in the 50s (which the science of the game is based on) believed that radiation of nuclear weapons would hideously mutate any creature.
5) society HAS moved on. on the west coast the New Californian Republic (which will be the main thing in fallout:NV) owns every thing forming a 'state'. in the capital wasteland there has not been enough people to actually do some thing because there is one side the survivors who are trying to survive (wastelanders) and the Raiders who just want every thing for themselves.
6) this one amazes me too
7) lights and electricity still work because they are probably nuclear powered like every other electronic devise in the fallout universe (like cars)
that sums up some of your questions if you want more info go to the fallout wiki
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_world
2) the amount of bombs dropped on the DC area obliterated every living plant, if there are no plants they cannot regrow. also the soil and water is irradiated which would ionize living cells and cause cancers (which would kill the plant).
3) again this is because of the massive amount of bombs dropped on DC.
4) people in the 50s (which the science of the game is based on) believed that radiation of nuclear weapons would hideously mutate any creature.
5) society HAS moved on. on the west coast the New Californian Republic (which will be the main thing in fallout:NV) owns every thing forming a 'state'. in the capital wasteland there has not been enough people to actually do some thing because there is one side the survivors who are trying to survive (wastelanders) and the Raiders who just want every thing for themselves.
6) this one amazes me too
7) lights and electricity still work because they are probably nuclear powered like every other electronic devise in the fallout universe (like cars)
that sums up some of your questions if you want more info go to the fallout wiki
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_world
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Sheila Esmailka - Posts: 3404
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:31 am