200 years, what a plot hole!

Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:38 am

Its not real life, its the Fallout universe.

The only thing that ever really bothered me was why is there baseball equipment in Vault 101? There's no room to play baseball in there!
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Tammie Flint
 
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:36 pm

He could have been made into an advanced form of the Robobrain, he could have been subject to an alternate form of ghoulification that preserved his voice, he could have been cryogenically frozen, who knows? I mean, those in Vault 112 have been alive for 200 years, so the technology is there. You can add this to your list of UNREAL NO WAI game features, but it allows for the believability of Eden's broadcasts in the game world nonetheless.

You didn't mention he could also be the Queen of the MZ aliens trying to lure people to the beacon.
I like how you didn't say he is really a (censored for spoiler) with a little flower in a vase on it.
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Samantha Pattison
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:01 am

I don't think Fallout was ever really intended to be all that "plausible" a game. I'm sure there's been a number of posts in here saying that already, so I'm with that group.

I think that in a lot of ways Fallout's universe is every bit as "fantastic" as Tamriel - all this "Science!" stuff is just trappings that provide context for the world you're exploring. It takes place in the future, but it's still a "fantasy" game. This isn't "hard" science fiction where events were carefully plotted out in a logical manner from a scientific basis that was firmly planted in reality - they didn't create Fallout by thinking "let's examine the plausible effects of a nuclear catastrophe, extrapolate realistic results from that premise, and then create a story to illustrate our findings."

In Fallout, "Science" serves the exact same purpose that "Magic" does in other games. Literally the only difference is that Fallout takes place in the "future" as opposed to a fantasy past. The game world was designed from the concept outward - they created the sort of world that they thought would be cool to set a game in, and then any backing information to support that premise was added in later as needed. So long as it's internally consistent, I don't think there's much of a problem, here.
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Fluffer
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:05 am

First off, Chernobyl is still irradiated, quite badly, the immediate area of the Chernobyl NPP still emits between 500-2000 roentgens per hour. 500 is enough to kill humans within 5 hours. . Secondly, all out nuclear war between all the superpowers (we're talking 10s of thousands of nukes here) is probably a LITTLE more severe than a reactor malfunction at a power plant.

Keep in mind when the Roman Empire fell, there were already other factions (like the Eastern Roman Empire) that basically absorbed the Western Roman Empire. A nuclear war would pretty much send society back to the Stone Age. How long did it take from the time Homo Sapiens fully evolved, to the first contries? Probably more than 200 years. Sure you had loose affiliations of tribes and villages, and Fallout has that.

On the Subject of prewar technology, yes, weapons would wear out after 200 years of use. I'm willing to bet that a gun produced to day, and kept in a box out of the elements will still work in 200 years.

Why wouldn't a lightbulb work? The filament is in a vacuum (assuming it didn't break) and unless it was being used, or was a faulty lightbulb to begin with, theres no reason it wouldn't still work.

Where does the power come from? Well, they had nuclear powered cars, so it would make sense that they could have small nuclear powered generators as well. Sure it probably isn't viable in today's world, hence the divergence.
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Jeneene Hunte
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:43 am

First, let me say that I love Fallout 3. It has given me many hours of fun and enjoyment. But like all geeks I can't help but pick apart the plausibility (or lack thereof) of some of my favorite fictional entertainment. There comes a point at which the willing suspension of disbelief gives out and you have to point out the obvious absurdities of what you're looking at no matter how fictitious it is supposed to be. Particularly if it tries to sell itself as realistic, or at least plausible. So it is that below I will list some of the most glaring problems I can think of that arise simply because of the condition of the world in the game 200 years after the bombs fell. I might find it easier to swallow if the game took place 50 years after the bombs fell, but not 200! Since I'm only human I'm bound to miss a few things so please feel free to add the things that stand out to you the most.

1) Prepackaged prewar foods
It's been 200 years since the last bottle of Nuka Cola was bottled, the last box of Sugar Bombs was packaged, and the last carton of Blamo! Mac and Cheese was shipped out. Yet somehow not only are these prepackaged prewar foods and drinks still around in great abundance, having somehow avoided hungry scroungers like the Lone Wanderer by hiding in plain sight for centuries, but they are also still edible! I'm sorry people, but even Spam has an expiration date. Don't believe me; check the bottom of the can next time you're in the grocery store. Even IF the preservatives in the food keep your Cram from rotting and boll weevil eggs from hatching in your Sugar Bombs, do you really think those Dandy Boy Apples aren't fossilized by now after sitting around for 200 years? Bear in mind, I'm not talking about the squirrel on a stick or the brahman steak or other such confections as can be made in the wasteland. I'm only talking about the prepackaged food and drink that nobody has produced since the bombs fell and has apparently been sitting around untouched just waiting for your character to come around and feast on them. I mean really. You think your Coka Cola is flat after sitting around in the open for a day or so? Your character is running around chugging sodas that have been sitting around in the open for literally hundreds of years! I would think that's ANYTHING but refreshing! And you're surprised that one of the ingredients for the Nuka Grenade are 200 year old Nuka Cola Quantums!

2) All the foliage is dead
For this argument I would like to point out our good old friend, Chernobyl. They had a nuclear meltdown at their power plant over 20 years ago. The gamma radiation killed off and sterilized everything for miles around. It's only been about 20 years and all the vegetation has grown back, overtaking the buildings people once occupied. I would think that after 200 years the trees will have recovered enough to where there would be insane forestation. Ah, but green trees don't look as desolate and hopeless as a barren wasteland, and that just kills the mood. Well, if they never came back, then all the trees we see in the game must be petrified.

3) Everything is still irradiated
Once again, Chernobyl. If the ground and water were still so irradiated that you could get radiation poisoning from it then do you really think that the plants and animals would have come back in force like they have? After just 20 years? Radiation doesn't sit around forever, it does dissipate.

4) Ghouls
Have you SEEN real people who were exposed to as much radiation as the ghouls apparently were!? Not only do they look nothing like that, but even if they did, that much damage caused by radiation would not make you immortal! As a matter of fact you would die much quicker than an ordinary human would. You would have hours, maybe days, not hundreds of years like these jokers. Oh, and the Chinese ghouls still fighting a war that ended 200 years ago?.HILARIOUS! Seriously, just ditch the rotting bodies; pick an old building, AND HAUNT IT ALREADY!

5) Society at large has yet to move on
Seriously, guys, it's been 200 years, more than enough time for new countries to form. Not just city-states, countries. Let's look at the last quasi-apocalyptic event that happened to humanity which we survived: the fall of the Roman Empire. No, really, people back then thought that the world was coming to an end. How long did it take for new countries to spring up from the corpse of the Roman Empire? Yeah.

Oh, and the fact that individual people have yet to get over the fact that the US is gone is absurd. It's been 200 years, none of these people reminiscing about the glory days of America were even alive back then! Take for example the psycho cannibal happy families in Andale. In one of your conversations with them one of them says something to the effect of, "I think it's every American's God-given right to vote for their favorite Republican candidate! I sure didn't vote for no commie liberal, no sir!" What the hell is he talking about?!?!?! The US as we know it ended at least 160 years before this nut job was born! What the frakk does he know about liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats? What does he know about what their party lines were and what their rivalries where about? Just to put things in perspective for you let's look back 200 year ago from today to the year 1810. How many of you know that the two major parties back then were the Democrats and the Wigs? No the Wigs were not the precursors to the Republicans, they were a different political party with a different party line and agenda all together. And who among you actually remembers the Wigs party lines, policies, or even what their feuds with the Democrats where about? Better yet how many of you CARE? It's been 200 years and the Wigs are no longer relevant. Ergo, what is a closet cannibal doing touting the party line of a political party that ceased to exist 200 years ago?
Furthermore, "President" John Henry Eden and his talk about baseball just kills me. Seriously? Seriously. I don't care what he really is; nobody has played baseball in 200 years. I didn't even know that the team known as the Capital Congressmen existed until I played this game. How would anyone who lives 200 years after the team ceases to exist know or care? Does anybody play anymore? Does anyone even remember how to play? Why oh why would you think that describing a sport that has been dead for centuries would inspire patriotism? Wait don't answer that! I know the answer and it is still absurd. I mean, really, would you try to inspire patriotism in Mexicans by talking to them about those crazy death sports that the Meso Americans played? I'm sure your average Mexican citizen would call you loco if you promised to bring those sports back as a way of inspiring hope in them. I know, bad anology. You don't kill the losing team in baseball, but you get my point.

And another thing, why are people still living in old, half destroyed houses after 200 years? People build, people repair, people rebuild. Societies do not set up in half destroyed ruins, sleeping on pre Armageddon beds for the rest of their existence. Megaton was neat, I liked it, but places like Canterbury Commons, Paradise Falls, and a whole bunch of other cities are just absurd. It's been 200 years, move on already!

6) Prewar technology and weapons still work
The idea that machines never age and they can just last forever is an old, flawed, faulty science fiction idea from the 70s. Machines may not "age" like people do, but parts break over time with regular use, mineral deposits build up on guns that render then useless, circuits wear down, and many metals do rust. Time wears down all things, be it mountain or machine. Have any of you tried to use a 200 year old weapon? I mean really just picked up a 200 year old weapon and tried to kill something with it? Or how about a 200 year old gun? Without even servicing it or refurbishing it, have you tried to load and shoot it? No, you wouldn't even think about doing that because you don't know what might happen. Forget Indiana Jones, really old technology build by old civilizations does not keep working after hundreds or even thousands of years. Especially if it is a complex piece of machinery, I don't care who built it. Sure a sun dial may still work, good as new no matter how long it has been around, but do you really think you can just pick up a bazooka that was used in World War 1 and fire it off as though it was brand new if it had been sitting in a basemant all this time without proper maintenance or upkeep? How about if it was sitting in that basemant for 200 years? Would you really trust that same bazooka to work in the year 2120? What about the ammo? Do you honestly think those 200 year-old rockets will work at all, let alone work like they were made yesterday? The Brotherhood of Steel maintaining and up keeping the technology that they guard is one thing. Finding a Chinese assault rifle in a cave, picking it up, and immediately using it to fill raiders with lead is another thing entirely.
Don't even get me started on the electrically activated doors and robots still working like new after 200 years. Like I said, parts break over time with regular use.

7 Electronics and lights still function
The fact that 200 year old light bulbs still work is extremely laughable, I don't care what type of bulb they are. I shouldn't have to explain why. How do I know that the bulbs are 200 years old? Think about it; have you seen a fully functional and productive manufacturing plant of ANY kind in the Wasteland? Who's building these new light bulbs? I also love these computers in old abandoned buildings that still turn on when you push the power button and operate like normal. Forget the fact that these things are primitive by our standards today, circuits still wear down given long enough.

I've got an even better question for all of you. Where is the electricity coming from? Last I checked all the power plants are in disuse, abandoned, and filled with feral ghouls. Where is the electricity coming from? Never mind the fact that a reactor has to be completely replaced with brand spanking new parts before it even gets close to the 200 year mark or it breaks down utterly. Parts break over time with regular use. Who is supplying power to a grid that has been in disrepair for a couple of centuries? And how does any of it still work. Do you know how much maintenance it takes to keep those grids working in the here and now when they haven't been hit with nukes? It is insanely difficult. And you think that the power plants will just keep on running 200 years after they've been abandoned? Yeah right.

And what about the generators that Tenpenny Tower, the Citadel, and other such places run on? Last I checked generators run on gasoline, and where does gasoline come from when society collapses? Nowhere, that's where. And don't tell me it's a nuclear generator. Let me explain to you the whole point of a nuclear reactor: it's to boil water. I'm not kidding you. The reactor superheats the water, and then super pressurized super hot steam is channeled through pipes to turn a turbine like a water mill, which generates electricity. Where is the water in these generators? Where is the cooling tower to re-condense the water to be boiled again? I'm telling you, these generators run on pixie dust! Pixie dust solves everything!

Anyway, that's it for me. If you guys have anything that you would like to add or comment on, you know what to do. And to those of you who want to tell me, "It's only fiction, shut up and enjoy the game," I say to you, I have/do enjoy the game, and now I'm enjoying geeking out over its implausibilities. Enjoy!

P.S. edit
To all those who claim that there is no plant life in the world of Fallout, I would like to point out a few quid pro quos.

1) Harold. If you know what I'm talking about then you know what I mean. I tried not to spoil anything concerning "President" Eden, and I'm not going to do it for Harold.

2) Muitfruit. What is it and where does it come from?

3) Point Look out. The bombs didn't fall there and it's a bit of a swamp. And there is a weird fruit that is grown there.

4) In the first Fallout game the first town I ran into was a farming town. That's right, a FARM town. They were growing crops. With a high enough science skill you could advise them on crop rotation. Please, nobody be stupid and tell me that crops don't count. Hey, anyone remember meeting Tandy? Don't ask me why I remember.

Alright, well you probably don't care about this thread at this point but I'll give my best shot at explaining some of the plot holes anyways.

1) Somewhere in the game I read or heard that an "isotope" added into the Nuka-Cola is what gave it such a long shelf life. If it doesn't make realistic sense I don't know what to say besides they fell back on fictional science. As for the other food I believe the the rapid advance in technology resulted in packaging that gave food a much longer shelf life than needed; unlike our cardboard/metal etc.

2) Well consider that Chernobyl was a reactor; the Wasteland is the result of the Apocalypse. Hundreds, and I mean HUNDREDS of nukes flew through the air and landed on multiple continents. The ground would not only be dry but it would be severely lacking nutrients which would mean only weeds would be growing (as they are). Also, do nukes have some sort of effect on the ozone layer at all? Or did they create some sort of thick gas/chemical in the air that blocks the nutrients from the sun? Could explain it if so.

3) A lot of the water that is sitting around does seem to have multiple barrels of radioactive substance just lying in it. As for the rest; your guess is as good as mine!

4) Sure the science is ridiculous. Let's just pretend that since the quantity of radiation victims was so much higher than any real world example we can look at today, there is an extremely small but still existent number of individuals who would actually have DNA mutated which saves their lives instead of simply receiving ill health effects. It's all we can do!

5) Maybe the inhabitants of Andale are descended from survivors who were once state or government officials or some other authority figures. They may have passed down the knowledge to their kin, who pondered on it and asked about it often. I mean think about it; in a post-apocalyptic scenario there wouldn't be much entertainment besides talking. And talking would inevitably result in knowledge of the past being learned. In a boring life like that where you basically stand around kicking rocks when you aren't finding food it'd be easy to obsess over something like political party and also to become mental.

6) Remember that though that modern civilization in the FO universe ended only 67 years in the future of where we are today, it was cleary stated that technology took a quantum leap forward. Sure machines in this day and age may break down after a few decades, but maybe half a century from now -especially if tech advances as fast as it did in the game- machines will have much more durability. And as for the weapons: though we pick up weapons and go "Omg this old piece of junk works instantly, how stupid", we rarely consider where the gun had been or who the gun belonged to before we found it. Maybe it hasn't just been sitting on a shelf for 200 years; maybe it belonged to multiple people who cleaned and repaired the gun long before we ever picked it up. People may not know how to create laser rifles anymore; but it's not to far-fetched to believe that in the harsh existence of the post-apocalypse many have learned how to restore the condition of firearms and maybe even create brand new guns from various parts. Energy weapons I suppose were just built much more carefully with different materials, therefore them firing after 200 years is reasonable.

7) Didn't Benjamin Franklin create lightbulbs back in the day, lol? I mean if people back then were making them why couldn't tinkerers and wastelanders do it in Fallout? All they would need is maybe a new glass bulb and then some pieces of wire and not much else...I'm not an engineer but it might not be that hard. As for computers: I believe I read somewhere that circuits were not really used in FO technology and were instead replaced with vacuum tubes. I guess vacuum tubes are more resilient? The comps don't all work too flawlessly though; there is corrupted data on some.

Someone else mentioned a NPC talking about leftover power being used as there was a surplus back in the day before the war. Idk about all that but I guess it's supposed to explain the power flow. Though I do too want to know where this "Mutfruit" is coming from. The crops from Fallout 1...hmm. Let's say that some areas of the country are more hostile and lacking in sufficient soil than others, resulting in survivors being too occupied with defending themselves and scavenging to organize and maintain settlements with crops.

Sorry if I said a whole lot of nothing; I just tried my best. Now for the question that doesn't make sense to me: President Eden talks over the Enclave radio station about how the children of today are miserable, but states how his childhood with his dog was so carefree and great. How could that be? Was the Wasteland a better place 60 years back? Are we supposed to believe he was alive before the war? This question can be answered without spoilers about President Eden. It makes no sense!! Please answer! :confused:
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Lily
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:27 am

I'm the same way with videogames, however I did not pick at this game too much. The game takes place 200 years after the bombs fell? I must've forgotten that if I knew it!

And because of that I didn't, like I mentioned before, pick at the game too much.

But now that I understand the predicament of the game, I'm with you!

>:[

Grumpy gamer

(no one take me too seriously)
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Rachael
 
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:33 pm

don't they use radiation to kill the bad bacteria in the food to give it a longer self life
so lot of radiation means a really long self life?
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Alina loves Alexandra
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:13 am

Sorry for chiming in late, and apologies if these facts have been covered before.

1) Prepackaged prewar foods


Keep in mind, you're dealing with a In Game Universe that adheres to the Laws of Physics as determined by the 1950s "World of Tomorrow" view. Since prepackaged foodstuffs were just beginning to take off in the 1950s, a lot of people didn't grasp the fact that these couldn't remain on the shelves forever. Fallout 3 just takes this belief one step further. As for why there's still so many foodstuffs after 200 years...Washington D.C. was home to millions of people, after the Great War a few hundred remained. Believe it or not, even after 200 years there'd still be plenty of food to go around.

2) All the foliage is dead
For this argument I would like to point out our good old friend, Chernobyl. They had a nuclear meltdown at their power plant over 20 years ago. The gamma radiation killed off and sterilized everything for miles around. It's only been about 20 years and all the vegetation has grown back, overtaking the buildings people once occupied. I would think that after 200 years the trees will have recovered enough to where there would be insane forestation. Ah, but green trees don't look as desolate and hopeless as a barren wasteland, and that just kills the mood. Well, if they never came back, then all the trees we see in the game must be petrified.


Actually, the severity of the Great War was such that it actually froze Earth's climate in a state of perpetual, dry summer. Without weather cycles and abundant sources of water, it makes sense that only mutated varieties and desert plant life would be able to survive such a shift in climate. Even Vault City's greenery had to be constantly watered by its slaves.

3) Everything is still irradiated
Once again, Chernobyl. If the ground and water were still so irradiated that you could get radiation poisoning from it then do you really think that the plants and animals would have come back in force like they have? After just 20 years? Radiation doesn't sit around forever, it does dissipate.


Actually, the Radiation around Chernobyl is still there, it's just settled low into the ground - so you have to be extremely careful where you sit in Chernobyl (and why visitors still carry giger counters). Actually, the trees in the forests around Cherenobyl are actually drawing the radioactivity back up from the ground and into the air again - leading some concern that the area around Chernobyl might become dangerously irradiated again.

4) Ghouls
Have you SEEN real people who were exposed to as much radiation as the ghouls apparently were!?


Again, 1950s World of Tomorrow Physics.

5) Society at large has yet to move on
Seriously, guys, it's been 200 years, more than enough time for new countries to form. Not just city-states, countries. Let's look at the last quasi-apocalyptic event that happened to humanity which we survived: the fall of the Roman Empire. No, really, people back then thought that the world was coming to an end. How long did it take for new countries to spring up from the corpse of the Roman Empire? Yeah.


Several Hundred years, in fact. Also, the D.C. area is not reflective to the Country as a whole. On the other side of the country, the New California Republic is already well established by the time of Fallout 3. Given the D.C. area is actually heavily urbanized, it makes sense that civilization is slow to return there. Even with the abundance of Prepackaged Food, the terrain does not lend itself to establishing communities, and likely does not how readily available sources of ground water. Indeed, all the population centers of the Capital Wasteland were there because they had access to Purification techniques. Smaller communities like Greyditch, Arefu, and Girdershade are ramshackle affairs that likely don't last more then a generation or two.

Oh, and the fact that individual people have yet to get over the fact that the US is gone is absurd. It's been 200 years, none of these people reminiscing about the glory days of America were even alive back then!


The Ghouls would have words with you. Despite the general prejudice, Ghouls are repositories for the knowledge of a bygone era. Eventually, those tales are going to be spread around to such an extent that people have a better grasp then you'd give them credit for of the United States. For that matter, to go back to the Roman Empire anology, because of the way Rome managed its territories, some of the more distant provinces still continued to operate as though they were under Roman authority up to a century after the fact.


And another thing, why are people still living in old, half destroyed houses after 200 years? People build, people repair, people rebuild. Societies do not set up in half destroyed ruins, sleeping on pre Armageddon beds for the rest of their existence. Megaton was neat, I liked it, but places like Canterbury Commons, Paradise Falls, and a whole bunch of other cities are just absurd. It's been 200 years, move on already!


In the Middle East, you have people living in buildings constructed hundreds of years ago. Just because it's old doesn't mean it isn't serviceable.

6) Prewar technology and weapons still work
The idea that machines never age and they can just last forever is an old, flawed, faulty science fiction idea from the 70s.


Well, since we're operating under the logic of the 1950s, I think this one's fairly self explanatory.

7 Electronics and lights still function
The fact that 200 year old light bulbs still work is extremely laughable, I don't care what type of bulb they are. I shouldn't have to explain why. How do I know that the bulbs are 200 years old? Think about it; have you seen a fully functional and productive manufacturing plant of ANY kind in the Wasteland? Who's building these new light bulbs? I also love these computers in old abandoned buildings that still turn on when you push the power button and operate like normal. Forget the fact that these things are primitive by our standards today, circuits still wear down given long enough.

I've got an even better question for all of you. Where is the electricity coming from? Last I checked all the power plants are in disuse, abandoned, and filled with feral ghouls. Where is the electricity coming from? Never mind the fact that a reactor has to be completely replaced with brand spanking new parts before it even gets close to the 200 year mark or it breaks down utterly. Parts break over time with regular use. Who is supplying power to a grid that has been in disrepair for a couple of centuries? And how does any of it still work. Do you know how much maintenance it takes to keep those grids working in the here and now when they haven't been hit with nukes? It is insanely difficult. And you think that the power plants will just keep on running 200 years after they've been abandoned? Yeah right.

And what about the generators that Tenpenny Tower, the Citadel, and other such places run on? Last I checked generators run on gasoline, and where does gasoline come from when society collapses? Nowhere, that's where. And don't tell me it's a nuclear generator. Let me explain to you the whole point of a nuclear reactor: it's to boil water. I'm not kidding you. The reactor superheats the water, and then super pressurized super hot steam is channeled through pipes to turn a turbine like a water mill, which generates electricity. Where is the water in these generators? Where is the cooling tower to re-condense the water to be boiled again? I'm telling you, these generators run on pixie dust! Pixie dust solves everything!


Once again, 1950s "World of Tomorrow" physics.

I can understand geeking out to the implausibilities of the game, but that requires disregarding the fact that everything in the game is build upon the assumptions of those of the 1950s.
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Big mike
 
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:48 pm

Seems like most of the topics have been picked apart and discussed thoroughly so I will input my last bit of information for subject number 7. If you look around in game you will actually notice a lot of settlements have gas run generators. So as long as they can find stores of gasoline they have power. And as for lightbulbs...

If you have a REAL lightbulb, as in its a perfect vacuum, it will never burn out because oxygen can not get to the filament. Look it up. The first light bulb ever made has been turned on and in a museum pretty much since its invention. Its just the lightbulb companies job to make [censored] ones for us so we have to continuously go back and buy more.
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katie TWAVA
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:12 am

Basically everything that GC Rust said, but the Fallout universe and ours doverged around the 40s-50s, i.e. physics adheres to what was believed then.

Also it's a game get over it.
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Sammygirl
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:59 am

@OP - FO3 doesn't follow science, it follows Science!
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Elisha KIng
 
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:15 pm

Can I just say you forgot the EMP? Yeah albiet an EMP is a chance consequence after a nuclear explosion.. but we're talking about TONS of nukes being fired! Big effing EMP as a result! that destroys almost anything with a circuit/current

As for the food, I'll give the developers benefit of the doubt. If the pre-war world became so advanced as to be able to make robots with sort-of-adequate cognitive abilities, I'm sure they were able to manufacture some dangerously unhealthy preservative into packaged foods which extended their carbon-14 half lives. (but let's also consider the fact that half the NPCs in fallout 3 are addicted to cigarettes. I don't have an excuse for how the hell cigarettes are still around in abundance... wouldn't they have depleted LONG ago?)

As for the vegetation and sign of life, I think what's preventing from anything like a forest growing in the wasteland is that there were just SO many nukes fired during the war, that the gamma radiation just totally screwed up the water cycle, causing the atmosphere's balance of oxygen and nitrogen (as well as H20 molecules) to form isotopes that not only eliminate chances of creating heavy vegetation but maybe even an isotope that prevents amino acids and nitrogen fixation from ever occurring in the soil. That's my half-assed theory. Remember, I think Bethesda (I don't know about the earlier fallout games with Obsidian) deliberately omitted weather patterns in fallout 3 (whereas in Oblivion there were clear climate changes in each month as well as different weather patterns ie rain). This must be their implication that the atmosphere is indeed and literally "burned" with gamma radiation and other forms of radioisotopes.

As for your argument that "everything is still irradiated" when it shouldn't be, I stand by my position: too many nukes used. How many nuclear weapons were used exactly when the bombs dropped? Does anyone know? because if there were more than a 100 dropped, I think it's pretty reasonable to say that it might take a LOT longer for radiation to dissipate than a nuclear power plant incident. I'm sure if fallout 3 took place 50 years after the war, drinking water from a source might give you 100 rads/sec rather than the amount given in the current game. As for the animals coming back in the force that they did, they might've mutated. After all it HAS been 200 years. Perhaps this is a nod to accelerated evolution/natural selection facilitated by radiation? The chances though of an animal evolving right away after exposure to extreme levels of radiation are so slim though.. I would half expect them to be sterile and then die immediately.

Next: The Ghouls. I've never seen anyone die from radiation poisoning or from the effects from being exposed to it too much (personally anyways. I've seen things from movies). I think the reason why Ghouls are anatomically the way they are is because the initial radiation exposure probably burned their skin off, but some radioisotope might've messed with their RNA sequence which could've prevented aging entirely (there is a known species which undergoes regeneration, essentially making itself immortal. I think the same concept is applied). By aging I don't mean getting gray hairs or getting wrinkles. I mean prevention of deterioration and etc. Again, most of my stances make LIBERAL use of speculation.

When Rome fell, most of everything was indeed at chaos. However, the world then was a lot more inhabitable and hospitable than what would it be if somebody decided to launch nukes at Rome. Not to mention, other growing factions/regimes were rising to replace Rome. In the case of the Fallout universe, those rivals destroyed each other in the process, with their last remnants (ie the Enclave) went into hiding for recuperation. Therefore, there were new propaganda and dogmas to feed to the public. Aside from the enclave eyebots, there were none to feed to people disconnected anything getting close to a society (i think the Railroad is the best example of society still moving on with more innovations and technology and heavy dependence of slave labor means its a growing a industry). Survivors of the Wastes rely on past relics, posters, etc to feed their hallucinations. That also comes into play with your Wigs vs Dems anology. (Which at the time it was Wiggs vs the Democratic-Republicans). When the Wigs party fell, another one immediately replaced it. Every now and then we have a new conduit to propaganda. After the war, absolutely NOTHING replaced the remnants of the past. The only records of civilization the fallout universe denizens have are what they find in ruins. So long as there isn't anything to replace anything, then I'm sure you can keep certain things like that alive.

I definitely agree with you on number 6. A missile launcher still working wtf?! If I tried using an AK-47 200 years from now that I found in an old outpost, I'm sure it will rust into dust as I pull the trigger....

as for electricity, who knows? Maybe someone read a surviving copy of Nikola Tesla's explanation on alternate currents and found a reference to Thomas Edison making lightbulb filaments and a found a way to make one themselves. I have NO clue. I agree with your stance, but I'm sure there HAS to be more.
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Joey Avelar
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:14 am

The bombs drop 70 years from now. Society and a lot of technology is stuck in the 50s, but there will have been advancements in 2077 that we haven't made. That's how we explain it.
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adame
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:31 am

It's a video game.
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Greg Cavaliere
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:38 am

It's a video game.

I think the topic starter clarified that these kind responses are acknowledged, but at the same, not at all productive. Yes it IS a videogame, but for pedantic, nerdy people like me, it's nice to have certain things clarified, especially when you create an imaginary universe, you want to sell your thing as plausible. Of course, I'm not the type of person who would go up to a movie like.. i don't know.. Toy Story, and explain in 100 ways how it's physically impossible to have inanimate toys be... animate. That's not what we're doing with fallout 3.
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Amanda savory
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:30 am

Someone please answer my question of where Mutfruit came from and why President Eden talks about how great his childhood was in rural Kentucky. I thought life was bad everywhere.
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Marie
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:40 am

Someone please answer my question of where Mutfruit came from and why President Eden talks about how great his childhood was in rural Kentucky. I thought life was bad everywhere.

I would assume Mutfruit is a radioactive evolution of another type of fruit? Though I guess it was packaged before the war huh? Iono.

As for Eden, he's a freaking computer who thoroughly enjoys lying through his figurative teeth to get people to follow him XP
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KU Fint
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:23 am

Pretty much everything in the original post is explainable through science from the 1950s. It may be considered false now, but it was considered fact back then. Skin falling off and hair falling out to cause "ghouls" was thought to actually happen. Radiation causing giant ants and things was also fact. Foliage was thought to be dead forever from the nukes, and the background radiation to remain for ages. This is what's unique about the Fallout universe. It would be boring if it went off of current science. But when based off of 1950 science, it's interesting and unique.
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Gen Daley
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:11 am

quick thing to mention about radioactivity, look at Bikini Atoll, ~20 nuclear bomb tests, including the largest on on record during the fifties. The IAEA conclueds that it is safe to live there, but the food is irradiated and thus not safe to consume large amounts of. life flourishes there even though its got radiation problems.
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CHARLODDE
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:19 am

I see where you are coming from, but every game has a plot hole, I just choose too ignore them, like you should.
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Curveballs On Phoenix
 
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:20 pm

To your point about the light bulbs, if you look around hard enough you can find portable generators in some places. Now that just creates the question of how do those generators stay powered....
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Anthony Diaz
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:49 am

To your point about the light bulbs, if you look around hard enough you can find portable generators in some places. Now that just creates the question of how do those generators stay powered....


Power itself is no problem in the Fallout Universe, since the government had developed and introduced nuclear fusion and smallscale nuclear fission technology into the Washington D.C. area. The nuclear powered batteries could maintain power for centuries. Electrical wiring itself however is a whole different kind of question which can only be explained by diverged physics. However, even in the 1950's it was known that nuclear bombs caused an EMP and destroyed electrical circuits. Simple circuits such as light swichtches could theoratically still function though.
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Danny Warner
 
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:18 pm

wow its just a game, chill man, its a bloody awesome game, dont you forget that (and to answer some questions technology was basically super advanced when the bombs fell anyway)
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Code Affinity
 
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Post » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:02 pm

wow its just a game, chill man, its a bloody awesome game, dont you forget that (and to answer some questions technology was basically super advanced when the bombs fell anyway)


Can't really judge wether you were replying to me or the TopicStarter, but i am a huge fan of Fallout 3 and haven't played a better game in my whole life. I just like to discuss things like this and wander about it, just for fun, not as critisism.
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adam holden
 
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Post » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:54 am

NOOB!
It's a game, not a history text.

Do you realy think anybody read all that?

Umm I read it.
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Veronica Martinez
 
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