255 ESP Limit? : IV

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:54 am

Whats the best way to overcome the 255 load limit for .esp's? TES4Gecko? Or is there a simpler solution I am missing? Some mods that I really like (Unique Landscapes, for example) have a buttload of .esp's, but if you combine them into a merged patch with TES4Gecko, the load order from BOSS gets screwed up, for one (although that is easily fixable), but also, some patches which depend on the esp's that were merged cause problems, as well

Any better ideas?

» Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:11 pm

Whats the best way to overcome the 255 load limit for .esp's? TES4Gecko? Or is there a simpler solution I am missing? Some mods that I really like (Unique Landscapes, for example) have a buttload of .esp's, but if you combine them into a merged patch with TES4Gecko, the load order from BOSS gets screwed up, for one (although that is easily fixable), but also, some patches which depend on the esp's that were merged cause problems, as well

Any better ideas?

Looks like you have reached the point where you need to use Wrye Bash and bashed patches - download (from Nexus) and start learning - you won't be sorry

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:02 am

Yes, Wrye Bash is a must. In fact, if you haven't been using a Bashed Patch, and have that many mods (working together perfectly!) it's a small miracle, IMO.

That's the first thing you should most certainly do, regardless. Then, perhaps carefully try TES4Gecko, keeping an eye on you load order before doing so, and placing your merged mods as appropriately as possible. Also, keep culling in mind, as an extremely useful option at any stage. Any mods you're really not going to use, or perhaps simply not going to miss... get rid of them, sooner rather than later.

That's my advice, anyway.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:01 am

Looks like you have reached the point where you need to use Wrye Bash and bashed patches - download (from Nexus) and start learning - you won't be sorry

I am using Wrye Bash, and the Bash patch, with FCOM, OOO, MMM, etc...

Merging patches in Wrye bash, is that the answer? If so, I am apparently not understanding it. Walk me through how to do so.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:23 am

Any files with green text can be deactivated and merged into the bashed patch using the "merge patches" section of the bashed patch. They then don't count toward your limit.

If that's not enough, then it's TES4Gecko (and making decisions about which mods are best to merge (it's about content, not about if they are related to each other). Or use fewer mods.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:21 am

Any files with green text can be deactivated and merged into the bashed patch using the "merge patches" section of the bashed patch. They then don't count toward your limit.

Duh

That's what I was missing, I think

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:48 am

I am using Wrye Bash, and the Bash patch, with FCOM, OOO, MMM, etc...

Merging patches in Wrye bash, is that the answer? If so, I am apparently not understanding it. Walk me through how to do so.

Deactivate them (the green ones) - the tick becomes a plus sign - that'll cover the merged mods. Then, there are some where everything needed has been imported, so you can deactivate them as well - here, the tick becomes a dot.

Click once on the Mod Checker icon at the bottom of the window when using Wrye Bash, and it will give you mostly (or possibly 100%) correct info about those mods needing to be active/inactive/merged.

Also, when you run BOSS, read the text that pops up (bosslog.txt, which you can find from that point onwards in your Oblivion\Data folder). It will tell you quite a lot about things like deactivating certain mods and so on. Very much recommend not missing this step.

edit: ninjaed, somewhat. :ninja:

» Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:17 pm

Deactivate them (the green ones) - the tick becomes a plus sign - that'll cover the merged mods. Then, there are some where everything needed has been imported, so you can deactivate them as well - here, the tick becomes a dot.

Click once on the Mod Checker icon at the bottom of the window when using Wrye Bash, and it will give you mostly (or possibly 100%) correct info about those mods needing to be active/inactive/merged.

Also, when you run BOSS, read the text that pops up (bosslog.txt, which you can find from that point onwards in your Oblivion\Data folder). It will tell you quite a lot about things like deactivating certain mods and so on. Very much recommend not missing this step.

edit: ninjaed, somewhat. :ninja:

Not quite ninja'ed, your explanation helped even more. I didn't know the difference between the dot and the plus sign, and I also didn't know what the green text meant. So you both helped, a lot, and I thank you both.

The BOSS log is helpful, BUT sometimes misleading about certain things. However, BOSS is definitely worth it.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:43 am

Deactivating seemingly wholly/sufficiently imported mods isn't the right thing to do every single time, just to make things "interesting".

Also, the advice from the Mod Checker, as I implied, may not always be applicable (or wise, anyway).

But deactivating merged mods is always fine. A good idea, even. The other absolutely crucial thing I fogot to mention is: readme files. These will sometimes - gods bless the modders who make it a regular practice - contain vital information re: conflicts, merging, importing, patches, and the like.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:03 am

The other absolutely crucial thing I fogot to mention is: readme files. These will sometimes - gods bless the modders who make it a regular practice - contain vital information re: conflicts, merging, importing, patches, and the like.

Key word highlighted. heh.

True, readmes are a godsend, when done right, but often they aren't. On the other hand, you do get what you pay for, and all these glorious mods are free...

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:08 am

Another great feature of Wrye Bash - Ghosting

Aswell as the 255 ESP limit here is another soft cap of 300-400 total BSAs, ESMs and ESPs in your data folder. For me this leads to pretty regular CTDs.

In Wrye Bash, right click on the Mods tab and tick auto-ghosting. All your merged, imported and disabled ESPs are temporarily renamed thus removing them from your count towards the soft cap. They should be shown with a grey background. To reverse just untick auto-ghosting.

I couldn't play without it. :tops:

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:30 am

Another great feature of Wrye Bash - Ghosting

Aswell as the 255 ESP limit here is another soft cap of 300-400 total BSAs, ESMs and ESPs in your data folder. For me this leads to pretty regular CTDs.

In Wrye Bash, right click on the Mods tab and tick auto-ghosting. All your merged, imported and disabled ESPs are temporarily renamed thus removing them from your count towards the soft cap. They should be shown with a grey background. To reverse just untick auto-ghosting.

I couldn't play without it. :tops:

Awesome, I didn't know that. Thanks again to everyone for the help

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:24 pm

But to get back to this discussion, I have a question:

What are some popular mods that can be merged together?

I'd like to start doing this (nearing my 255 limit, even while using WB and the Bashed Patch). Any tips on mods that were succesfully merged (and possible walkthroughs, links are also fine) of how to do this would be appreciated.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:44 am

There are probably a significant number of base + extras situations where you could merge the optional extra bits into the base. If you move the originals to another folder and rename the result to replace the base esp, then BOSS should treat it as the original base. That should be especially true for any compatibility patches, the "use this if you have xxx" items.

» Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:05 pm

Here's a thought. Highlight all your mods and choose "mark mergeable". This will give you a report of all your mods and why they are not mergeable.

Ignore the first section, Wrye Bash can already merge them so they don't count

Delete anything that is only having items imported. They don't count.

Copy and paste the rest to Notepad. Eliminate anything that's an ESM. Move anything that is part of another mod (patches and add-ons) to a different Notepad file. Move anything with a BSA to another Notepad file. Move anything with WRLD edits to another Notepad file. Eliminate anything with Dialogue edits.

Of the remaining, look for mods that only list a GMST change. Merge all of those first. See if that gets you the space you need.

After that, start looking at which mods have the least number of problem items. You'll need to keep a few things in mind: If a mod has just quests and scripts it is probably mergeable, but if another mod uses OBSE to check for that mod for compatibility reasons merging will mess that up. This is important for things like TheNiceOne's various UI and economy mods, which will detect and adapt to other mods being present.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:58 am

OBSE detection and adaptation is becoming a more common thing and it's going to start becoming a major issue with merging anything. It's already one very good reason *NOT* to merge the ULs because there are mods out there looking for specific UL mod names, like Ayleid Steps does. The longer things go, the more likely it is that merging mods will result in broken compatibility.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:00 am

So, with Wrye Bash increasing the number and type of mods it can merge into the bashed patch, and with an advanced permanent merging feature in the planning (both thanks to cbash).....

Looks like someone will have to design and implement an aliasing feature for OBSE detection and Wrye Bash so that mods can do "IsModLoaded XXX.esp" and "IsModBashed XXX.esp".

Boy, I'm glad I'm not smart enough for anyone to ask me to do that.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:22 am

Thanks. I managed to merge a couple mods already.

The issue with the IsModLoaded could bring problems.
Then again, if I would mod and use that function to identify other mods I would likely document it in the readme.
This way users could be aware of what kind of interaction to expect.

Other modders should start documenting it, if they haven't already. This helps those people who wish to squeeze those little mods into the game.

Spoiler

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B&M.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - WelkyndSword B&M.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - MannimarcoRevisited.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - Kvatch Rebuilt.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - DLCOrrery.esp  [Version 1.2b]++  TIE In - DLCThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.2b]C8  RealisticFatigue.espC9  ME_WAR_SUMMONS.espCA  AgarMoreVariedSpellEffects.espCB  MidasSpells.espCC  Midas OscuroGems.espCD  MidasMagicCompanions.espCE  Alchemical Formulas.espCF  Poison Combiner.espD0  Essence Extracter.espD1  SM Bounty.esp  [Version 1.22c]D2  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]D3  Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed block and 150% damage.espD4  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.espD5  OOO-Intelligence Overhaul BJ.espD6  nGCD.espD7  nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp++  nGCD Skeleton Key.espD8  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 2.0]D9  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]DA  ProgressSBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]DB  ProgressRBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]DC  ProgressRacial.espDD  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]DE  zzEDialog.espDF  actors_in_charge.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Knights.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Thieves Den.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - OOO.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Kvatch Rebuilt.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Glenvar Castle.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - VH Bloodlines.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Lost Spires.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Colovian Highlands.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Lost Coast.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Brena.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Blackwood Forest.esp++  EVE_KhajiitFix.esp++  EyelashesVannilaRaces.espE0  CM Partners.espE1  CM Partners More NPCs.espE2  Companion Neeshka.espE3  GG_Valeria_Revived.espE4  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.5EV-D]E5  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]E6  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]E7  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalClasses.esp  [Version 9.0EV-U]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFangs.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalMoreEyes.esp  [Version 10]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, TNR Merge.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]**  bgBalancingOptionalNPCDiversityKvatchRebuilt, for Wrye Bash.esp  [Version 9.0EV-D]E8  bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalSeamReducerHighElfFix.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]E9  bgIntegrationEV.esp  [Version 0.993]EA  Better Cities - Full City Defences.espEB  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.espEC  BCBravilB&MFULL-Barrowfields patch.espED  BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.espEE  BCCheydinhalFULLB&M-CheydinhalFalls patch.espEF  BCSkingrad-SkingradOutskirts patch.espF0  Better Cities - Valley View Estate.espF1  Better Cities - VHBloodlines.espF2  Better Imperial City.espF3  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2]**  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.espF4  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp**  Life Detected - Fountain - Medium - 2.espF5  Get Wet.esp++  Visually Realistic Lava.espF6  Shining Creatures.espF7  Enhanced Economy - Soulgems.esp  [Version 1.0]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]F8  My Merged Plugin.esp++  Patch GemSword.esp++  Patch Midas Magic.esp++  Patch Valeria Horse.esp++  Patch Neeshka Horse.espF9  Bashed Patch, Nohraar.espFA  HoarfrostCastle Fix.espFB  BC-IC WNAM and BC+UL Water Fix.espFC  Oblivion Graphics Extender Support.esp  [Version 0.2]FD  Streamline 3.1.esp

My merged plugin.esp already has:

Explosives.esp
Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp
RealisticForceMedium.esp
RealisticMagicForceMedium.esp
Kayo.esp
PTActorsCare.esp
PTDoorExploitBegone.esp
PTLessKnockBack.esp
MRP Loading Area
MRP Not enough charge
MRP You find nothing of use
MRP You successfully harvest

Planning to add:

Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp
Distant Chapel Bells.esp
Rainbows.esp
WindowLightingSystem.esp
Purge Cell Buffers - Loading.esp
Q - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1.esp

And also thinking about merging the UOMP patches into the DLC's.

» Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:37 pm

And also thinking about merging the UOMP patches into the DLC's.

I did this awhile back, freed up plenty of slots.

SM Plugin Refurbish having a merged version that covers all DLCs helped even more.

I've also merged all of the mods that add random dungeons here and there into one giant dungeons merger - but only do this if you haven't actually collected any of the rewards from them.

You can probably also get away with merging house and castle mods as they tend to be isolated enough for that.

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:41 am

Showler, thanks for the approach to merging you outlined above, I must say it's probably better than my over conservative method.

After that, start looking at which mods have the least number of problem items. You'll need to keep a few things in mind: If a mod has just quests and scripts it is probably mergeable, but if another mod uses OBSE to check for that mod for compatibility reasons merging will mess that up. This is important for things like TheNiceOne's various UI and economy mods, which will detect and adapt to other mods being present.

For what you said above, let me be redundant by asking for a confirmation that it should be safe to merge small minimally worldspace intrusive mods together with no ill effects happening to the quests themselves (i.e. breaking)?

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:08 am

You probably shouldn't merge any mods that have an active quest. FormIDs will change and the quest will almost certainly break.

Quests that do nothing but run a script should be fine, but you should probably clean save between the old version and the merged version.

Also, avoid merging mods from authors who specifically request that you not do so. If you do, don't report errors or make complaints about it (not that you seem the type to do that).

» Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:29 pm

Dumb question alert!........... Dumb question alert!...........Here it is:

Why can't 100 esps be merged into one as long as there aren't any conflict between them?

» Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:43 pm

Why can't 100 esps be merged into one as long as there aren't any conflict between them?

They can. Providing there is no conflicts and no other reasons for not doing so (broken active quests, broken dialogue, broken BSA linking).

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:17 am

I did this awhile back, freed up plenty of slots.

I have merged the UOMP patches to the official plugins.

Since the UOMP patches are no longer being loaded, I would like some advice on the following:

Should I add the bash tags to the plugins?
What about the relev tag - is it used to fix content from the Oblivion.esm or just patch the official plugin?
I renamed USIP and also the voice folder it came with to DLCShiveringIsles.esp. Is there anything else I should be aware?

» Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:48 am

it should be safe to merge small minimally worldspace intrusive mods together with no ill effects happening to the quests themselves (i.e. breaking)?

Provided you haven't yet started any quests, acquired loot, bought property, etc, then they should be fine to merge.

Why can't 100 esps be merged into one as long as there aren't any conflict between them?

They can - just be careful doing it. If you mess up along the way, starting over will svck. Best to handle large merge projects like that in steps of 10 or so mods at a time, then merge the merged mods together.

Should I add the bash tags to the plugins?

Generally, yes.

What about the relev tag - is it used to fix content from the Oblivion.esm or just patch the official plugin?

That's done to make sure leveled list contents get merged properly into a bashed patch. If the UOMP module has that, it should be transferred to the DLC.

I renamed USIP and also the voice folder it came with to DLCShiveringIsles.esp. Is there anything else I should be aware?

Possible mods that expect the USIP's filename for detection purposes. Other than that, not that I can think of.

Also, you bring up another good point that's been missed before - renaming ESPs with voice files will break the voice files if you don't also rename the folder containing the files. That might mean having to repack a BSA that comes with a mod since the pathnames inside the BSA will be wrong now.