Abo, With realistic fatigue I'm having some problems with the horse's stagger, I do have md saddlebags light, as soon as I add items to the horse and its going up a steep incline and staggers the horse freezes in place. This is fixed by getting off/on the horse, but happens again as soon as another stagger takes place. Trip is not affecting it however, so temporarily I've disabled the stagger in the ini file.

I've seen that happen as well.

Ironically thanks to LAME I now just teleport all over the place so I haven't used the horse in a long while.
(I use the saddlebags early in the game until I have enough cash for a house (usually Frostcrag Spire) + storage.

I asked this over in the other thread but they didn't seem to know:

Should I set the iLevelUpSkillCount in Progress.ini to 9999?
(I'm using the default leveling method, not the original "10 major skills to level" method.)

I'm guessing the answer is yes.

--- Moved to separate thread. ---

Realistic Fatigue, how does it interact with 'burden' magic?

I've been using Realistic Fatigue on my new character for about 2 months now. I'm absolutely loving it. Deeply impressive mod. The only 'tweak' I've made to the default settings is to remove the walk/run speed increase (ie moved them back to vanilla levels. I thought eveyone moved unrealistically fast when at the higher level. Yes, I walk painfully slowly, but that's good. It feels real. Also everyone looked stupid, mincing along in a high speed walk.

That out of the way, onto the reason for this post. I've been thinking about burdening NPCs either through magic or alchemy. In vanilla, although you can burden opponents it is virtually useless because they carry so little. In Realistic Fatigue will a magical burden effect on NPCS increase their encumberance and therefore their fatigue burn. If so, is the effect likely to be sufficient to noticeably hamper my enemies?

I love taking screenshots and walking around and doing MANY things in Oblivion, but I want it less laggy. It lags way too much, so Im asking you guys espescially the Oblivion pros like gf1 and floydian and SeV and company what mods I should get. I know theres Streamline and low-poly grass, but what are the other great performance upgrades?

This seems like a very random place to post. Not at all relevant to the thread topic.anyway, trying looking in the 'The Oblivion performance Project' thread (do a search) for lots of performance related suggestions.

Simple things can help, switch off your antivirus software (after disconnecting from the net first of course). Defrag regularly. Don't use Anti Aliasing, V Sync, HDR or Bloom. I find Operation Optimisation (a mod ) helps a lot.Others say the mod Quiet Feet makes a significant difference. Upgrade your RAM.

Well when i get burdened i walk considerably slower, so i would expect that enemies would be considerably slower too.


Also i have a minor problem with realistic fatique. On very rare ocassions when i trip and fall i seem to go in an infinite loop where i will get up and fall, get up and fall...
I can ignore it as it happens only very rarely but is there a solution for this?

Wow... lots of posts here that I missed during my relocation from Ireland to Australia... thanks everyone for helping each other with your questions... I'll try to answer some of the outstanding ones now;

SidVelu: none of my mods use Screen Effects, but I do give it credit in Realistic Health for showing me how to write my own shaders. Only Realistic Health uses a custom shader with OBGE, together with a subtle use of the default hitshader. Realistic Fatigue just uses the default hitshader. If you replace the default hitshader with other custom shaders they will modify the RF and RH visual effects.

XenoHellblazer: Did you ever resolve your Realistic Health shader problem? The first thing I would try is to turn of any other custom shaders introduced by other mods. In theory you should be able to stack OBGE shaders on top of each other pretty safely, but in practice they can combine to have nasty lag problems and/or eventually "break the GPU's back" with too much to do.

CardTrick: looks like your problems are solved...anything else need resolving? I've not looked at BAIN yet... I got kinda good at OBMM install scripts and will miss them.

Katnap: Horses have a stupidly low fatigue... only 50, which means you can punch them out real easy. This should be fixed by giving them something decent. I'm not sure if your saddlebag mod is encumbering your horse... if it is then this will make him tire out even quicker. In the console, click on your horse and type "tdt" followed by "sdt 10" to watch your horses stats as you ride him... see what his encumbrance and fatigue look like. I will attempt to address this in my next version of RF.

Edvardelis: I have an OMOD version of Progress in my http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12801 that includes an install script that will prompt you for all the important settings, suggesting suitable values for different leveling mods etc.

S'lider: burden spells work great with RF... maybe too great. I haven't really thought about it much, but maybe burden/feather spells should be made more expensive to compensate for their effectiveness. Maybe fatigue affectings spells should also be made more costly... dunno. So far no-one has mentioned this but it's worth considering. I think that perhaps RF just changes these spells from useless to useful and justifies their cost... dunno.

SidVelu: the collapse-stand cycle happens because your encumbrance doesn't affect your fatigue when you are not standing... this means you collapse under the weight of your wounds and/or encumbrance, recover enough to stand again after your little-lie-down, and then collapse again. When this happens, you are too wounded and/or encumbered to stand, so heal and/or drop something. The effect is overly abrupt though, so I'm going to fix this in the next version so when you collapse for this reason, you stay down.

I'm going to release some updates to my mods soon... I've finally relocated back to Australia and just yesterday got my computer back into working order...

I have some cool stuff to add to RF including better swimming, less puny horses, improved fatigue related combat AI, and tweaks to stagger/trip/collapse mechanics.

RH is going to get some fixes to the disease shader effect when in darkness.

I'm going to make Carry Sacks actually work.

I might start introducing some sort of Hunger/Sleep functionality or maybe a separate mod... dunno yet... it'll probably be an experimental mod to start with.

Really glad to hear from you ABO, got worried when you hadn't been online for a while. Another bod off to Oz eh? Can't think why (PS its still raining over here )

More importantly, glad to hear some updates may be forthcoming. I can't imaging playing without RL and RF, tho changes to spell costs may cause probs with us what use magic overhauls like LAME ans SM.

Happy modding

oo: Can't wait

and here I was thinking RF was perfect already!

Great News, cant wait for the updates. But take youre time, RF, RL, and RH are working perfectly well, as of now

Also i dont think i ever complimented you for RL and RF. There two mods really make oblivion into a differrent and much more enjoyable game. I dont think i will ever play oblivion without those in my load order.

I'm using all your realistic mods and love them They simply work like a charm, light-wight and immersive! :trophy:

I'm using BAIN for almost all of my installs, it has a texture and mesh conflict detector and helps a lot with uninstalling if such conflicts exist. It seems to me the reason for the mod not working is a manual install with an empty .ini in many instances. If there the scripted install is not needed for the mod to work (i.e. oblivion.ini changes) it could be made BAIN ready.

I've nearly got v2.3 ready and I'm on the verge of releasing it, but I'd like a bit of feedback on how the trip/stagger currently plays. I'm not 100% happy with how I'm calculating it, but if it plays OK I'll leave it for another release.

I've slightly tweaked the vertical movement filters mostly to filter out the extra vertical movement fatigue burn from bouncing up/down when going up stairs etc, but this also slightly changes the way I filter the vertical acceleration used for detecting steps/ledges. In practice this shouldn't change things much, but while I'm changing it maybe I should tackle improving it.

The current tripLevel calculation is pretty primitive, and maybe it needs improving. I'm not happy that the equation can produce a negative chance... that implies to me something is wrong. It is also a pretty linear probability curve which just sums up the factors. Is the chance of tripping too high with full fatigue and/or too low with low fatigue? Maybe it should be more aggressive about combining factors so the chance of tripping when fatigued and running backwards is considerably higher than just the sum chances of tripping when fatigued added to the chance when running backwards.

The trip/stagger chance is calculated every 1sec or when you hit a step/ledge. This means you are more likely to trip or stagger when you hit a ledge. However, maybe just checking when you hit a ledge is not enough... maybe the size of the ledge should also contribute to the chance of tripping?

But before I change anything I'd like to know what people think needs improving based on how it plays. Have people tweaked the tripGain/staggerGain settings, and if so, what to, and why? Do the defaults seem OK? Do you trip/stagger too much with full fatigue, and too little with low fatigue? Do you trip/stagger enough when hitting ledges? Do you trip/stagger too much on flat surfaces?

If people think it's OK-ish right now I'll leave it and release all the other goodness, which thus far includes;

Improve fatigueLimit application in an attempt to minimize fatigue "flutter" effect.
Change encumbDrain to apply when bIsKnocked or bIsStanding so it applies when collapsed to fix collapse/stand cycle.
Simplify knocked state detection to not include standup animation.
Make fatigue recovery stop underwater if not waterbreathing.
Change tripFatigueDrain to fatigue - fatigueLevel*12 and delay restore until it recovers naturally to make trip recovery slower.
Add lowpass filter for pz with RC=0.1, and remove filters for vz and az, to smooth climb fatigue burn calculation.
Add fix Horse fatigue to strength+endurance+agility+willpower+health/2
Add rider and rider equipment to horse encumbrance.
Tweak actor combat AI game settings.
Added debugRef support for outputting additional debug information.

Regardless of how much I'm carrying, I can step up onto a ledge. It shouldn't increase the chance, I think just a recalc is good (because there's a chance I'll trip, but it's not really dependant on my stats)

The trip chance already is not affected by encumbrance. It's a combination of fatigue, running vs walking, backwards vs sidewards vs forwards direction, and agility. You should notice that you are more likely to trip/stagger when puffed and/or running backwards, and you should trip/stagger mostly when you hit a ledge. You should notice you are less likely to trip/stagger when walking. You should notice you trip/stagger less as your agility goes up.

Well, fatigue is itself affected by encumberance, so my mistake
However, I still think I can step onto a ledge if I'm absolutely shattered

What about shattered and running onto a ledge, or shattered and running backwards into a ledge, or not shattered and running backwards into a ledge, or shattered and walking backwards into a ledge, vs etc.

There are many different combinations of fatigue, direction, speed, terrain, and agility that modify the chance of tripping or staggering, and it's kinda hard to come up with something that makes sense.

Just a quick heads up... Realistic Fatigue v2.3 is nearly ready and I expect to release it in the next couple of days. I got a bit distracted by experimenting with adding encumbrance to change movement speeds. It works, but it's very tricky to make it do what I want, so I'm not including it in this release.

How I wish there was decent movement scaling based on fatigue and/or encumbrance in Oblivion... there is just no easy way to scale running speeds and jumping heights. RF would be so much better if your running speed and jumping height were less when you have low fatigue.

Oh goody an update

Abo I just wanted to clarify that I don't have a problem with the amount of times the horse is staggering when pushed too hard up a hill since I changed the horses fatigue to 600. It's just the horses animation freezes when recovering from a stagger, this has only happened in my game when using the saddlebag mod in combination with RF. Unfortunately my turning the stagger off for the horse turns it off for everything else too, so it's not really a satisfactory solution. Pity the game doesn't have carts for the horses.

A quick heads up... Just uploaded [url=http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925]RealisticFatigue[url] v2.3 with these improvements.

- Fix don't add ability to the player again when dead.
- Add no fatigue recovery underwater if not waterbreathing.
- Add lowpass filter for pz with RC=0.1, and remove filters for vz and az, to smooth climb fatigue burn calculation.
- Change vertical movement fatigueBurn compensation to only apply when on ground.
- Change default climbGain from 1.0 to 1.5 to account for better climb fatigue burn calculation.
- Change encumbDrain to also apply when knocked to fix collapse/stand cycle.
- Change knocked state detection to not include standup animation.
- Change trip ledge detection tripInterval from 0.2 -> 0.1 and az from 400.0 -> 512.0.
- Change trip to delay collapse recovery based on fatigueLevel2.
- Add tripFatigueDamage=16 setting to control trip collapse duration.
- Add fix horse fatigue to strength+endurance+agility+willpower+health/2
- Add include rider and equipment in horse encumbrance.
- Add riderWeight=100.0*fActorStrengthEncumbranceMult/encumbMult setting for horse rider encumbrance.
- Add horseEncumbMult=0.2 setting to scale horse encumbrance.
- Improve fatigueLimit application to minimize fatigue "flutter" effect.
- Add config tweaks for actor combat AI game settings.

After using a lot of leveling Mods (Kobus, AF Leveling, ...) I confirm that Realistic Leveling is the best.
nGCD never understood his complicated tweak and mostly I'm not happy with his high beginning health
Oblivion XP tested last weak ... suffice to say I was able to level from level one to four mostly by reading Books and finding places, also I find it not realistic that my strenght or blade skill rise just by reading books or making potions...

Indeed a very similar experience. Ive tried alot of leveling mods, and found that i like realistic leveling the best. :thumbsup:

Also thanks for the update for RF

I set the trip/stagger to minimum, as I thought it was happening too often in the last version. Now, it's just right--only occasionaly giving you a trip or a stagger, reminding you it's cool, without it being done every game session.



What I'm having a problem with is the doggone horse. What I'd like to do is not have RF affect the horse at all. I want the vanilla horse back. But, I can't give up RF for all the other wonderful things it does.

I've been using Prior M's paint horse. As soon as I mount it, the horse whinnies, indicating it's taking damage. Walking or trotting is a nightmare. It whinnies all the time.

I use the trick where I "SetAV Fatigue 600", and that worked with the last version of RF. It doesn't seem to work that well with the newer version.

I decided to get a new horse, so I got a Bay horse from Skingrad. In a test, I road her hard, cross country (because I want to be able to do that), and now the horse is the same as the paint horse. Whinny, whinny, whinny.

Is there some setting--something really high--that I can set my horse to so that RF really doesn't affect the horse at all? I want RF, with all it does, without affecting horses. I'd like the vanilla horses back.

I sent you an e-mail, but I know you like this type of feedback out in the open so that your answers get the most use.