This thread is about ridiculous and unbelievable NPC reaction.
In Oblivion whenever you attacked a NPC, he would draw his weapon or ready his fists, skillfully!
I mean, it's alright for most NPCs to fight back, my problem is that everyone appeared to be masters of some sort of skill, for example: It happened to me several times. I attacked a noble or one of high class, and she would draw a weapon at me or ready her fists, I mean... it looks ridiculous!
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for women fighters, but most of them are noble or shopkeepers!
I guess it would've been better if the women would beg for their lives, or run away immediately rather than put up a good fight.

I hope I'm not alone here...
(The issue touches the bandits with super uber items, a bandit with daedric equipment and/or elven gear is not something I'd like to see happening again)

Plus you should get a huge bonus to damage for attacking someone who has no way of preventing your attack.

If you walk around with your sword drawn npc's should actively avoid you and guards should warn you about causing trouble. After you swing at someone whether they get hit or dodge out the way, they shouldn't run straight at you, they would probably run away a bit and get there bearings before drawing and attacking, or just running away.

I hated the fact that when you talked about Rumors to a beggar, he'd have a noble voice. But I guess that's more on voice acting.

I also hated how every NPC had a full 6-pack, rock hard abs. But I guess that's more on graphics/NPC design.

Oh wait! I really hated how when I'm in a shop and I go towards that basemant/private quarters, the shopkeeper would follow me and just stare at me! Creepy! At least have them say something along the lines of "Hey! What are you doing over there?" (If they don't like you) or "Feel free to look around up there if you want friend, I'll get the key." (If they like you.) This would just feel a lot more natural and with the improved Radiant AI, I believe it'll be possible.

it's different this time

There you go.

Agree with everything you've said, just want to expand a little on the shop thingy.

Notice shopkeepers say a lot "Feel free to look around" and then they start following you whenever they can't see you, not only is that creepy, it scares off customers, and contradicts their statement. Maybe their shops should not be as big and full of places for us to hide. I don't think any shopkeeper would build a shop with lots of places people could steal from out of his sight...



Usually I appreciate your comments, but that comment was not very constructive... please don't let me think of you for the worse :S

I believe it was better in Fallout 3, some people fought back, some ran away. I assume they implemented the same kind of system in Skyrim.

If memory serves, they're going to have differences in body shape in this game, so that problem's going away.

"Feel free to look.. around.. If you don't mind me also looking... *looks up and down* around" :hubbahubba:

Yeah I know, thank god for that ha. It just bothered me to no end seeing old beggars with abs

Aww come on, why so serious?

Agreed. If my big burly Nord hero punched a small helpless, male or female, shopkeeper in the mouth... I'm certain they would take a good bit if damage.


Nice deduction. Are you a detective?

If they actually add good animations of punching people in the face and having them fall down according to the physics and velocity of the punch.. I will punch every NPC I can find

If you look at my avatar you will notice that I am the three greatest detectives in the world.

It's just some people in these forums like to bash threads based on the title and nothing else.

Sorry if you didn't mean it in a serious way.

I think this idea also applies to enemies. If you tear through a bandit camp, performing brutal finishers on a few of his buddies, do you think the last bandit standing is just going to charge you? I think he'd run for his life, which would allow you the choice of letting him go or shooting him in the back. Perhaps fleeing enemies should take more damage since they are not guarding themselves, so you can perform some nice ranged finishers on them. And perhaps it would be better if they had a little bit of a panic attack before fleeing so they are not halfway down the road by the time you have a chance to chase them.

The idea probably needs some work so it's not annoying but I think it would be better than suicidal opponents.

I know what you're saying. It just seemed weird that every bandit camp I went to was filled by mindless zombies, and they were living humans.

I wish they'd change the fact that when we speak a beggar and he/she asks for a coin and we give it to him/her, if we speak to them again right afterward it's like they never spoke to us. He/she would ask for another coin and won't thank us for the last one we gave him/her.

And you are right when saying this idea applies to the enemies as well, I didn't think about that when writing this post. I think enemies react the worst, let's take your example: The bandit camp. Think about it, if you were to approach them and they would notice you, would you expect them to attack on sight each and every person they saw? it's like they're just like predators! They should threaten us first, draw their weapons, warn us, and finally if we do not reply or we just step forward some more then, and only then, should they attack us.

NPC reactions in Oblivion are fine. Just this morning I watched an NPC defend herself against Glarthir. They traded blows, and then she ran for her life and got help from the watch. I often see NPCs attempting to flee. I couldn't care less that ordinary civilian NPCs appear to be masters of combat, because it is only appearance. They don't put up good fights unless you aren't much of a fighter yourself. I would expect nobles to receive some combat training if for no other reason than the danger of assassins. Also, nobles can usually afford better trainers, and probably need only pick an instructer from within their own personal guard. In Skyrim, where civil war has been raging for who knows how long, I would expect nobles to have trained even harder at self defense. Nobles and civilian NPCs alike, if they ever intend travel between towns, would be wise to learn self defense. There are plenty of bandits, marauders, and creatures that take no prisoners.

Well, Cyrodiil is one thing. This is Skyrim though. "Nobles" are likely going to be the toughest people around (as far as Nords go anyway). However, I do think some people should react more reasonably when they are clearly outmatched. I mean, your 5 hand-to-hand skill and lack of any armor isn't likely to result in you defeating a trained warrior in heavy armor carrying a claymore.

Who? I've been trying to place your avatar, and so far no luck.

Wow man... you're waaay over anolyzing this... :S
Nobles have guards for a reason, they don't travel across the lands alone, because I'm sure the plenty of bandits and marauders you were talking about are stronger and are more in actual number. You won't see a noble woman going on her own in the woods and then trying to fight 3 bandits attacking her, she should run, and would run, in order to make it believable.

And by the way, appearance is an important thing of the game, you can't have a game lives room for imagination in your part, what you see is what's there. Why? because TES games are actual worlds, if you really want to feel you're a part of a world then whatever you see is exactly what you see.

For example: Did you see the first gameplay demonstration of Oblivion? the one who demonstrated a woman shopkeeper skill in bows, she was awful! and I liked it, she trained herself with the bow using a target, and then she drank a potion to get better at it. See? Bethesda can do it, it's just wasn't a part of Oblivion. Hopefully, it will be a part of Skyrim.

He is the character "L", from Death Note.

One of the best portrayals of a deductive genius in fiction today.

Don't worry, it will probably be different. I'm gonna guess more NPC's will be trained and ready to fight in Skyrim - the badlands North region that happens to be fighting a civil war.

Yes the NPC should react according to their abilities, which for a shopkeeper should be limited. Shopkeepers for weapons stores for example would likely have better combat skills. But most others should try to run from you at first. They should also be able to lock doors behind them, so for example a shopkeeper or innkeeper should run for the nearest door and lock it behind them. It would also be cool if the shops had some sort of security. So a weapons shopkeeper could activate some sort of security measure if you decided to attack him. Maybe he could flee to his safe room, lock it and sound his horn for the guards to come???

Dragonbone was responding in a lighthearted way the "pleeease tell me it's different this time" secondary post title from what I could gather. At first I also perceived it as a stingy, snarky comment, until I scrolled up and realized what he was responding to. Just in case anyone passed by the secondary and regarded his input in the wrong light.

On the matter at hand, there's plenty to be improved when it comes to NPC behavior. The problem is that this is an open world game in which NPC interaction is quite prominent. In a game like GTA NPCs have no personality, no character, no name, no nothing. They just wander by making cities seem fuller. On most other RPGs, japanese ones mainly, NPCs just stand wherever they are or walk in circles, saying the same thing over and over again, with every interaction beetween them being scripted and most of the time all you'll get from both parties in conversation.

Oblivion had, in many aspects, plenty of great ideas, but I felt the execution lacking in many fronts. I'd go as far as saying that Morrowind "nailed" more things it set out to do than Oblivion. Radiant AI was particularly very disappointing to me. It set out to provide natural NPC behavior and, instead, jumped from feeling ridiculously random to absolutely scripted.

I'm quite sure Skyrim will represent a very significant step-up from Oblivion, which had the shortest development time of any game in the series other than Daggerfall, from what I could gather. Not only that, the team had what I believe is a VERY elucidative experience with Fallout 3. Ironically, I find it safe to say that the best thing that happened to the series was Fallout 3. It presented so many different environments, a much better main quest when it comes to narration, a better sense of exploration and more satisfying combat, even though it was mostly ranged. It lacks the charm of a medieval setting, as far as I'm concerned, but overall I believe it to be an infinitely better game than Oblivion, and, back on topic, featured some nice, interesting NPC behavior and uniqueness.

I wouldn't look at Oblivion to find what to improve upon when it comes to NPCs and their interactions, rather I'd look at FallOut 3, which is, to me, a staple in such aspect.

Great ideas! You also got me thinking about new animations, like when the shopkeeper flees, opens the door and then locks himself in. I imagined that the NPC is actually running away from you, opens the door and shuts it down to your face, it could also daze you for a second or two.