I hadn't thought of willpower magic resistance, but I agree that magic shouldn't have too huge of an effect on the battle. No more than, say, archers would have. If one side had archers and the other didn't though, then it would make a big difference It all depends on creativity and tactics, I suppose.




Mysterious Akavir tells us how the dragons are extinct there, killed during the Ka Po'Tun's war with the Tsaesci, but I'm not sure of an exact source for dragon extinctions in Tamriel. I know that it is said cliff racers drove them out of Morrowind after they had come there from Akavir, and thus they came to Cyrodiil, to be worshipped by the early Imperials, but I can't seem to find a specific source. If nothing else I know for a fact that they would be extremely rare, and it is said (again, looking for a source) that they can only be found (if at all) in remote mountain villages.

And of course, M'aiq can tell us where the dragons are

Well, the guy who's really good with a sword tends to have little effect on the battle.

Because the sword has no range against large warhorses, lances, or spears for that matter. It's all in the weapon range.

So, most people here wants the mages to be inside the battlefield fighting like the other soldiers? I dont know... I think that is a waste of valuable mages...
Perhaps just me...

Look man.

You have more of a chance of dying on some hill. The enemy army doesn't look and say "he look mages on a hill lets just ignore them."

They would send cavalry to go get those guys. Besides, battles don't always happen on a hill. What is it with you and [censored] mages on hills?

Like Mage: the Ascension.

[censored], my brain stops when I look at that book.

Peace man, but you want them to be positioned inside the lines of the armies? Hm... I guess some mages could be there... But not all.

Hills are good tactical positions since they grant you a good view of the battlefield.
They are also easily defended.
Put some sharpened poles around the hill with spearmen standing around the place. Your cavalry will have a hard time getting through that.

Now, a mage in the battlefield can kill the enemies in front of him with magic and weapons. He is also caught in that mess and wont be able to get out until the battle is over. There will be no rest for him unless the enemy are retreating.

A mage on a hill can look over the battlefield and attack the enemy at the BACK of the enemy line. So that while they are waiting for their turn to get into the slaughter-fest they are getting shocked, frosted, burned and killed in all different ways without being able to stop it.

And they are also going to be vulnerable. Besides. There isn't always a beneficial hill that is magically there.

If I may use actual history here (god forbid, right?), horses are actually scared of new smells and sounds as proven by the Battle of Guagamela (Sp?) where Darius fielded elephants and the enemy horses were shaken up by the smell of the new beasts but Darius' horses were fine because you have to train your horses to be able to stand the sight if the beasts.

So how likely is it that a couple thousand horses will have masters who have thought ahead enough to either pay a mage/necromancer to summon undead things to get their horses use to the smell/sight?

I don't even know what you guys are talking about. Everyone just seems to be trying to spit out factoids left and right.

Or it could be that elephants are just frikin' scary as hell.

Cuz whoever spits out the most useless facts is the winner. Duh. Learn the internetz.



That could be it as well. But I'm going to stop flooding this thread now with all this crap.

Okay... so hills are strategically important locations. Everyone's known that. The problem comes when the enemy isn't going to be polite enough to let the mages get into position on the hill in the first place, or denying them any advantage they would have there by moving the battlefield out of range.

And elephants aren't as scary as Billies or Khajiit Senche-Raht.

:rolleyes:

Easy there Mr. Awesome General.

And considering there are no elephants in TES, I think the Sench-Raht would be the equivalent of the TES world.

I must now find and read said book

EDIT: Just looked it up on Wikipedia, and my brain has already exploded :wacko:



Another fun fact, horses were also freaked out by Mamluk camels, giving many Muslim armies (the Moors in particular) serious advantage over enemy cavalry, especially on sandy home turf (or desert, I suppose).



Of course, he who knows the sources and history wins any argument, and thus always wins the RP :grad:



Depends on whether the army is defending or attacking. If the other army is pressing, the defenders could retreat to a strategic location, with Haresus' much loved hills. If you're attacking, you usually have superior numbers or unit quality in the first place, which is why you can concede a bit of tactical advantage. Even if the enemy has twice as many mages, if you have five times as many men you can still win. Though that doesn't mean you can't lose, of course.

And have you ever been charged at by a war elephant? Or a Senche-raht? Then I don't believe you can properly make that claim

Anyway, now that our useless babble has more or less filled up GD's guide, I think we can finally move our discussions to a new thread. Because I would be very interested in discussing all the various possibilities involved in magical warfare, especially considering how much I will be using it in the coming RP. All in favor?

Ofcourse.

But remember that this is not always so very easy to do, denying the mages their sacred hills.

Then there is also the thing that when people arent so polite enough to let the mages get into position in the first place most people arent so polite to just let the hill stay under enemy influence. It would propably be taken back. Or the main battle would be fought on the slopes of that hill instead of one the field beneath the hills... Hard to know...

You would usually try to deploy on the hill before the battle even starts. And if the hill is taken, there is a good chance to entire battle is going to be lost. Cause not only are your lines dealing with their main assault, you're also facing an enemy coming down from an area you thought was safe.

Or you just retreat to another place and fight the battle there. It was common in the antique that it took many weeks and days before the two sides had "decided" where the battle was to be fought.
If the battlefield favoured one side too much then the other side could just say:
"Screw this! This battlefield isnt in my favour!"
And he then moves to another place... Repeat until everyone is happy.

Alright. It's time for me to say this. Because as bad as I was, even I didn't necessarily do this in this thread.

To all of you who haven't done much war/political RPing, quit arguing with Darkom, who even though he hasn't done it, has read up on history.

Quit arguing with me, because I've done it. Same with Blademaster and Verlox, and Storyteller. And for the love of God, stop arguing with IB, because he pawns you in comparison.

I just think this needs to be said. Everyone is filling up this thread with [censored], and they're making themselves look like dumb asses.

EDIT:

And at IB's post after this, yea, I agree.

Can we just not make a big deal about this...It's embarrassing.

This forum lives to make a big deal out of things.

That's probably the easiest solution, Though you'd have to make doubly sure that it wasn't possible to see the hill from where you would be fighting, since the mages don't have to worry about gravity or the wind.

And as for the call to stop arguing, that never works. Only way to stop an argument on the internet is to get the thread closed or to get everyone to agree with you (impossible in most circumstances).

Well, this thread is four posts from being closed. So, this argument hopefully won't go on too much longer, unless one of you do what I think you'll do.

@haresus,
Another thing you can do with magic is drain the enemy. Rather than kill them outright with spells, make 'em weaker and easier to kill. Maybe even make your own guys stronger?

I prefer to call it an intellectual debate, on the ever intriguing topic of battlefield strategy with a fantasy twist. I for one was simply discussing the possibilities of utilizing certain tactics in the RP, and discussing the merits and downsides of each. And for the record, I do not know things, how insulting of you to suggest such, Wooly

Regardless, I agree that the topic of hills can be put to rest. Whether or not you can take a hill in or before a battle is subject to too many things to make an objective claim that will apply to every situation. Otherwise we'd be at it all day. "Yeah, but if this happened..." is not the beginning of a worthwhile discussion. Obviously everyone will have different views on which strategem will work best for them; once you have stated yours and explained it, there is no further need to continue to press it just because one person refuses to agree. I think we can all be civil enough to avoid such banter.




Almost forgot; :laugh:


EDIT: Well I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion and all that jazz. On a completely different note, I think Thu'um is a lot like a shotgun

personally, I don't think the issue is really about the hills, but more that Haresus is not operating under the same set of assumptions as everyone else. Specifically, Haresus's post demonstrate that he's not operating under the idea that "magic is rare," nor is he nerfing magic in way, shape, or form. It reminds me of a conversation I had over the use of Thu'um in the Long Road to Ruin. I was told it would be used like a shotgun. I objected, saying that Thu'um is simply put, not that weak. The only way I'd find such a nerf tolerable was if we operated under the assumption that my Thu'um users svcked. Point is, Haresus isn't thinking of magic like the shotgun of the battlefield, but like the "Vampiric Cloud" of the battlefield, and this is what's causing problems.