That is a very fair point. I agree with you that I do not have raw data to prove that 'many people' want this feature. However, would you like addressing the myriad of other reasons I gave for why such a feature would be a great addition to the game?

You miss the point then. If you are unlocking these achievements legitimately, why do you care what others do? Why does it matter that others are cheating? You didn't. I fail to understand why you need further reassurance from BGS that "achievers" are being considered.

How exactly would a leaderboard work in a game like Fallout 4 anyways? Are you competing based on how fast you completed a quest? How much damage you dealt in the quest? How many enemies you killed? What difficulty you played on? This is not a online competitive experience where there are winners and losers. I honestly don't even see how a leaderboard would make even remote sense in a BGS title.

To be quite honest, I don't think most people generally care about leaderboards at all. Not to mention, even if people aren't using console commands or mods, there will always be bugs or broken specs that people will exploit to get to the top of those leaderboards. In other words, I can't say I've ever seen a legitimate leaderboard in most games as people at the top usually exploited in some way or fashion to get there. Look at any first person shooter and the leaderboards are never legitimate.

Again, I don't understand why you have the need of showing others how much of an "achiever" you are when most, if not all, will not care at all. I think you also greatly overestimate how many people need a feature like this just to reinforce they've achieved something on a video game. BGS games are about getting lost in the world and going where you want and doing what you want. Achievements are thrown in for the very fact of giving players like yourself some sense of progression and you actually did something impressive. To want something greater for a game that doesn't fit that philosophy is perplexing and downright strange.

So in other words you do not particularly care about a suggestion unless the suggester already has raw data about hundreds of people wanting that one suggestion to be featured in the game. That's a bit of a narrow minded way of looking at it, but not everyone enjoys debating and objectively weighing the pros and cons of certain suggestions.

Simply the amount of caps you have, the level you have, and overall raw experience, really. Perhaps quests completed as well; one could sort the players on the leaderboard according to these specific things. Something rather 'basic', or at first at least. Perhaps something to be expanded upon in the way you suggested in an expansion pack or something of the sort.

And once again, sadly, you seem to misunderstand. The current achievements are very superficial; even if you know you achieved them without cheating, there is nothing 'legitimizing' them... and either way, these achievements are plenty finite.

I personally do not care if others do not care about my achievements. I just want to know that, somehow, something legitimizes the hard work I had put into the game, and the dozens of hours I sunk into it (and that is why I personally would like such a feature, but others might like it to, as you put it, shove their achievements down others' throats; to each their own... more features appealing to more people = more people buying and playing F4, increasing the fanbase, brand loyalty, etc). I do not think I can put it any simpler. Besides the myriad of other reasons, such as providing something for many other sorts of videogame players, adding another entire layer to the game, etc.

So not exactly looking to discuss a suggestion and yet still doing it. I have understood your point, and I shall try get the 'raw data' required for Bethesda.

But this isn't a mmorpg and we aren't using any kind of metrics to have leaderboard make sense. Sorry, but you're just competing against yourself on this one. Again, what kind of acheivement are you even looking for? With choices and different paths to take I doubt there is a way to 100% the game. So just the main quest?

I have already answered such a question...

I shall do it once more:

The leaderboards would be based on: level, total experience, and wealth (in caps). Simple, and not complicated = little effort to be implemented.

The save games would be encrypted, and the savegame would become 'unlegitimate' even if in 'ironman mode' if the base game is modified in any way. This would all be SIMPLY A FEATURE. People can opt in if they wish. Considering the amount of MMORPG players that like to simply 'achieve', amass wealth, items, experience, levels or whatever, this would appeal to many. It would legitimize them.

I'm not asking for the game to become an MMORPG. I think people are misunderstanding the (multiple) purposes of the suggestion.

This is the first I'm seeing this kind of request honestly. I don't see Beth being interested in making this a competition. I for one hope it never goes there. That removes so much personality for me. Frankly, it wouldn't happen in this game as it would have to have been planned from the start to give each attribute you're talking about a tangible value to score the charactor on. This is also a gateway to people wanting multiplayer/mmorpg which I really hope never happens. I can't think of anything more distracting than random people in my world messing stuff up

There is little logic to that. It would not turn the game into a competition; it would only allow people interested in competition to compete with one another. If you don't like it, don't take part in it. You're being opposed to something for no logical reason.

And do you really think I'm advocating for F4 to become an MMORPG? Have you read anything of what I've written?

Just to make the benefits of such a feature more clear, here is a clear cut 'compilation' of the reasons:

Oh it has nothing to do with whether or not I'd use it lol I'm just saying it won't happen

So you've added little to the suggestion as you have no real interest in it. Regardless, thanks for trying to help the suggestion improve. Maybe you'll grow to like it because it would make F4 so much better to so many other people, even if not for you personally.

You want a leaderboard for number of caps you have, your level, and your experience? I can already tell you that leaderboard will include those who find exploits to get rich fast (your iron mode won't catch it as its not console commands or a mod) and players will just max out their INT to gain levels faster and more experience. How is that a sense of achievement at all? It seems like an arbitrary stat most aren't going to care about because this isn't a race. Again, I just don't really see what you are trying to achieve here. I just don't believe BGS makes the kind of experience you are looking for in terms of achievements. I'd recommend something along the lines of Dark Souls if you want a sense of actually achieving something in a single player game as that franchise is allegedly difficult.

Like I said, this is the first I've ever seen a request like this (and there's a lot of crazy requests on here) so I'm not sure where you've gotten "so much better to so many other people" from. If it's something Beth wanted to do they would. It's not something we've seen in other Beth games and definitly not something they've shown so I'd say with confidence, you won't be getting a system that you describe

its not really that kind of game imo. With mods coming to consoles for the first time i think that this would be even more unpopular. I mean i don't care one way or another, good luck, maybe you can convince bethesda to patch it in.

As mentioned already far too many times, examples would include the millions of competitive players that play competitive games out there. In case you really want an example: Counter Strike Global Offensive would be a great example. In terms of MMORPG players who also like to achieve in terms of wealth, well.. I'm sure you can think of an example. It would allow them 1) the ability to compete with one another and 2) the ability to make themselves feel better about the dozens of hours they invested in the game and the immense assets they have in-game without the fact that they could've gotten it all through cheats without it being even noticeable.

Yes, you are very right in that bug exploiting would be quite the issue. But such an ironman mode doesn't have to be released right the same second with the main release of the game (even though that would be a good idea to build up the hype for the competitive/achieving groups of players). If anything, the leaderboards could even be wiped once a seriously game breaking bug would be discovered. But I will not go into that; the game developers would know better what to do. But it sure would be an issue if the game would suffer from such leaderboard-breaking bugs.

But your examples are NOTHING like fallout. Thet aren't examples of anything. Are there competitve games out there? Sure. Do you need to make EVERY game competitive? Hell no. Your #2 point is actually really pathetic. You need something to make yourself feel better about time you've spent in a game? I don't think you're looking at the right game series. I ask again, have you ever played fallout?

I sense you turning into a troll, in all honesty. If there are people such as MMORPG players who enjoy grinding and having 'legitimate' wealth, levels, etc, and people who like competing with others, why not make F4 more appealing to these same sorts of individuals with such a feature. It would allow such people to better enjoy the game, and maybe convince some of them to actually play it because of such a feature. People who don't like this feature would not use it. Just like with CK2 and EU IV. That feature only allowed competitive players to have their way, while those who wanted to use mods or whatever else could go on as previously.

If you don't care if others care about your achievements, and it's all for personal satisfaction / "legitimizing the hard work" (I can't begin to say how much those words, in regards to a computer game, make me roll my eyes)..... then why do you need game systems to enforce and advertise it (leaderboards)?

Just be like that guy in the Kotaku article, who played through New Vegas.... what, without using any healing, I think it was? He set himself a huge challenge, and successfully did it. What's stopping you from doing the same? (And again - if you don't care what others think, why would you care that someone else claimed to have done the same & maybe used a save editor or mods? It doesn't matter - you know that you did it "legit", and you can have personal pride in that.)

----

Seriously, though.... the whole concept of "compete" attached to a single-player, non-score-based RPG.... just does not compute.

I don't need the leaderboards for myself. All I'd need would be the ironman mode, and the save game file encryption.

This suggestion isn't only about me. It's about attracting more players towards F4 to play it, improving Bethesda's revenue, enlarging the F4 fan base, and ensuring that this franchise, and its developers, are prospering. This feature would make the game appeal more to different sorts of players (in this case, only competitive players, if we are talking solely of the leaderboards). As long as it doesn't step on the toes of other people's way of enjoying the game, where is the harm being done? Say, people who hate competing with others.. they opt out. People who like the completely isolated single player experience of the Fallout series.. they opt out. People fail to realize that this will be forced on no one.

If I hated the settlement construction part of the game, I'd simply ignore it and not play it. That's brilliant. But if I liked it, I would play it, and that would increase my enjoyment of the game. Even more brilliant. Same in this case. I don't see anyone whining about the diversity of the vanilla game F4.

I have NO idea why you keep bringing up mmorpg's. The fact is, a system like you are talking about would take time and resources away from all the other development. This being the first time I've ever heard such a request, I'd think there's a very very small group of people that would be interested in making fallout competetive. And how would you measure "wealth"? Just who ever holds the most caps? That's easy, kill everything that moves (which gets you XP also) and sell all of their things. Does that somehow make that player a more advanced player? This isn't a mmorpg, let's not treat it's gameplay like one

No multiplayer, ladder system or leader board system so I'm not entirely sure, stroking E-ego aside, what the point would be.

Why does every game have to try to appeal to every type of player? Doing so could take away from their core group of players, which I'd hope they don't do.

But if you're not going to cheat (yourself, since it's single player), then why do you need the save encrypted? Why does the game need to enforce it upon you, if it's all for personal satisfaction?

Dev time spent on a feature requires budget and workers. There's a limited amount of these in every game project. So time & money spent on one feature can easily impact another part of the game. Leaderboards, anti-cheat, etc? Proper investment in the development of competitive games. Massive waste in games that aren't remotely in that genre.

(Thinking about it.... there's no timers, or limits, or scores in these games. The only thing I've ever seen anyone advertise about RPGs are how fast they can speedrun it.... and the speedrun community has their own standards & rules - glitch, no-glitch, etc. They don't need encryption, or enforcement. And people making up their own challenges - "complete the main quest using only a butterknife" - aren't using a standard mode, so again... no real way to enforce that, any more than there was for "naked runs" in Diablo 2.)

...ok, I went and looked up CK's Ironman mode. And I don't see the point. If you want to play without reloading an old save.... just do it?