You can RP around anything, that really isn't a compelling reason to keep something in.

I have to agree with the implication of the "this is not Middle Earth" statement though. Tolkien has his own fantasy world and TES has theirs. In Tolkien's world elves are immortal, sounds pretty unrealistic to me. Bethesda is not really limited to what they want to do in their games fantasy-wise. They would be WISE not to make huge jumps from reality like humans being able to jump super high or stuff like that in canon because it reduces the believability of the fantasy.



lol, really? So when someone makes a good point it's suddenly "who cares about him?". The idea that an Acrobatics of 100 lets you water run is not lore.

What does Tolkien have to do with Nirn? Middle Earth is supposed to take place on an ancient Earth, not Nirn. They have nothing to do with each other.


Im not talking about pretending I'm talking in game mechanics that made you into a literal Acrobat, thief, acrobatic Skooma pirate etc.

So, the following previous game mechanics (A.K.A. Lore) have been broken:
Transportation spells/scrolls
Climbing
Spell that lets you walk through walls (Arena)
Levitation
Jump spell
Slowfall
Bashing open locks
Sinking in water (Daggerfall (arena?))
Being able to use a spell, while equipped with a sword.
etc.

I guess the Devs don't really care about the lore... or at least game-mechanic-lore.

And yet they change with each new game in the series, like they will in Skyrim. :violin:

Now list all the ones that were included. Not to mention a lot of thse things can be worked around in later titles. It goes without saying that I was against those exclusions in the first place.

So if there is any type of jumping perk (let's say I want to get onto rooftops or something), that perk would be available when? What will I have to be doing to unlock that perk?

If you don't get it now, you never will. Think of it this way: Tolkein = Bethesda (not in a literal sense because I know you're going to say I said so)

They're both story tellers.

I know, but then again you will probably be able to do those things in Skyrim so who cares? It's not like you can't jump anymore

thats the thing, if all perks are in a perk tree directly related to a skill, then what skill would it be under? In a previous thread a day or so ago I suggested a perk tree from each of the three reaming attributes. covering everything that we lost in Attributes and cut or merged skills. Not sure if thats how they are dong it, but it makes sense.



Not in anyway. Not to mention Elves could jump extremely high and were extremely acrobatic in Tolkien's Realm.

You forgot the most important lore of all... people's skin being impregnable unless the Random Number God decided your sword was strong enough to pierce it. Did Random Number God just die or something? Maybe he just doesn't care about combat like he used to anymore :confused:

You have to start looking forward... limiting themselves because of past titles which were developed on "ancient" technology (DF and Arena), is just not logical. They are being a progressive company, and they are giving us the best game they can.

NEVER! OLDER IS ALWAYS BETTER! IT'S ORIGINAL SO IT HAS TO BE BETTER! :swear:

/sarcasm

Forward is not less. It should never be. A successor shouldn't limit something as essential as Acrobatics, speed, athletics etc. Its not 'less is more' its not 'evolution' its cutting something out. Again, I dont think they are getting rid of the ability to jump or run beyond Earthly capacities. Im just defending it from ignorance that didnt see its true value.

Yes, I too felt the deep joy associated to those skills and their being removed :devil:

They're end result was unrealistic such as jumping over skyscraqers in a single bound and being faster than a speeding bullet, the only thing missing was being stronger than a locomotive. Not to mention they were exploited skills to level easily by just running around jumping in circles around the province. I for one am glad they are gone because there were so many problems with them and they also did not help with completing quests, which is the core of the game. If people really need to jump really high and run super fast for their roleplay experience, there are always mods.

Called it. You actually are a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rltssW5VYxQ&feature=related. Congratulations on being stubborn, predictable, ignorant, and close-minded.


You can't get through to this kid, trust me.

Well I technically called it...




See! I did say that.

/austin powers moment

Technically I believe you were begging the question/appealing to authority anyway. To say Bethesda=Tolkien (anologously) implies that Bethesda is restricted to the same scale of deviation from reality that Tolkien restricted himself from. They are not.

Well I for one saw acrobatics and athletics and all it had to offer. So i guess there's nothing else to say until we see what's going to become of total speed and jumping ability.


/Liu Bei

Wanting more, or the same gameplay options as before is ignorant and closed minded? Seems like people that want to get rid of gameplay mechanics for no reason are ignorant and close minded.

I believe the Raven is seeing things differently?

I implore anyone that has an ES title sans Arena available to go out and make an acrobat, thief, etc. that revolves around acrobatics, then see what your missing. You'll most likely be a glass cannon whose major defense is agility and dodging/jumping. Very rewarding and fun gameplay to be had. All lore friendly and acceptable for a high fantasy.



Not to mention I disproved his theory with Tree Elves. They can jump really high in Tolkien Lore.

No, but not being open to others opinions is very closed minded.

Like I said, I agree with you. There should be, and probably will be some mechanics that allows for faster sprinting and higher jumping whether they be perks, dragon shouts, or something else entirely. But that doesn't mean I'm going to say other people are noobs at TES or don't know the lore at all just because they don't think moon jumping is a crucial part of the series, or that jumping higher should be more realistic.

When you claimed the books as your evidence for super high jumps being part of TES "lore", someone made a perfectly logical argument that those books could be fantasy within TES's own fantasy. The author could be telling fictional tales. You shot it down because you cannot accept that you might be wrong or you just don't have any common sense. Either way that's ignorance and arrogance all wrapped up in one. So why should anyone listen to your points if you aren't open to anyone else's points?

Neither of those things are ignorant or closed minded. Ignorance means you do not have knowledge of the subject; obviously both sides know the effects of Acrobatics and Athletics. Closed mined implies you are unwilling to entertain the thought of the other position; I assume both sides have though about each other's position. Y'all need to settle down -.-

Seeing things differently than what? That is a relative question. I see things differently from all involved in this discussion. There is merit to both arguments. Personally, I think the loss of Acrobatics and Athletics is not a huge issue. Would I like them to stay? Sure, I guess. I'm sorta ambivalent about the topic. Do I want them to jump through hoops or sacrifice their vision to keep them? Definitely not. If you're referencing the whole Tolkien thing. Obviously equating two sources of fantasy is a fallacy. You might say "I think Bethesda should shape their fantasy closer to Tolkien's" and that would be a completely defensible position, but saying "Tolkien did it so you're wrong if you don't do it" is just plain illogical

Ignoring opinions based on the fact that they didnt use X gameplay mechanic is worthy. They didnt get everything out of TES. There's nothing wrong with that, buts its no excuse against people that did.

Everyone Take a skill or mechanic that they loved from ES, thats been in since its inception and cut it. What would you do?

If you "didnt use them/didnt mind them being cut", then you didnt use them.

I meant what he said about LOTR and TES...


I didn't believe he'd see the similarities any other way. And of course he didn't even then. Parallels: Tolkein and Bethesda both are story tellers of their own world. Both strive to implement real-world physics into their respective universes. Both know what doesn't make sense and what does make sense. How could either of you have thought for a second I was comparing Middle Earth to Nirn? That's not even in context with the discussion we're having. I'm extremely disappointed that I have to explain myself in such an obvious comparison.


What are talking about? All you want is the same old stuff and cry about not getting your way while we're fully supporting Bethesda in their changes. Just stop.

No, they dont. Selective reasoning=fail. Go play a game set on Earth, or middle Earth, same thing in Tolkien.

Yes they do. Comeback=fail.

Why the [censored] do you think they took Athletics and Acrobatics out then? Honestly...