I understood what you meant. And you DID compare them. "Both strive to implement real-world physics in their respective universes". That's a comparison of the worlds (and their creators writing style). I'm saying it's fallacious because Bethesda is not limited to the boundaries that Tolkien deviated from reality. They could have all sorts of crazy physics if they wanted. It's not smart or good writing but they can.

Or maybe they feel that leveling up Acrobatics and Athletics was a broken grindfest and they broke the leveling system. Out of all the skills, which of them do you have to use no matter what?

Athletics and Acrobatics. You reasonably have to run and have to jump while playing a TES game. You don't have to use destruction or blades... You don't have to wear armor or use Alchemy. But the basic idea of running and jumping constantly leveling up seems very out of place with the "You get better at what you do" philosophy of TES... because everyone is going to run and jump in their time with the game... It's not even a real character choice... So why not meld those skills into a different area of the game, like the new perk system? Does that not make sense to you? Does that just irk you because it's not the "lore"... or because it's different than how it was before? Can you honestly not see that as a valid and reasonable point of view, even if you disagree with it?

Because all perks are related to skills and Acrobatics and Athletics are out, confirmed by the latest preview. No confirmation of general perks. Not to mention your the one that keeps arguing the fact against having the ability at all.


While they might need a small work around, your the one that kept jumping. You didnt have to. For example, jumping in Oblivion only leveled you if you landed on "even" ground. If you didnt jump overtly, or take Acrobatics as a major, it took hundreds if not thousands of hour to get Acrobatics to a level that confounds your build. By that time, its time to make another build/character, or your just asking for a JOAT.

Well, they're not supposed to be exactly the same...


Beth did it for realism and practicality. You know, those things you hate? :rolleyes:

And bullsh*t I'm arguing against the fact. I'd have no problem if Acrobatics were to be implemented in a realistic way and never said I did. There you go making stuff up again, putting things into people's mouths.

So the more I jump around, the better my chances of a perk unlocking that will allow me to reach higher areas?

its not totally gone im sure there will be perks or something to increase these stats......

In a way they do. Read the section on http://brainstorm-services.com/wcu-2004/fairystories-tolkien.pdf, pg 15

I hope so, or some other way. Nobody knows.

What I am trying to say is Stamina is a skill correct? Acrobatics and Athletics were probably merged with Stamina or if there is a speed skill then possibly could of merged with that.

Okay, okay everyone. Calm down. We don't want any mods swooping in and handing out warnings do we? Just take a second and breathe so we don't have any more flames. Besides, don't anger the orc, they look vicious enough now to tear you limb from limb :tongue:

Thus turning it into a pointless and unrealistic grindfest. Having it as a perk seems to work a lot better. It still allows you to shape your character how you want him without the need to jumping 10,000 times so you can magically jump on water. Even if you disagree with everything I just said... that is just as valid of an opinion as yours. I'm not even saying that this is what I think. But you need to understand that just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean it's automatically "wrong". I can easily see why someone would think a more streamlined system would work better for skills like acrobatics and athletics. Just like I can see why someone would want them left in.

:facepalm: WTF does that have to do with TES?

While I often don't like the gameplay decisions Bethesda makes I like this one. In Oblivion it was annoying how slow you would run if your athletics/speed was low and ridiculous how fast you would run consistently if you had it both at 100+. Same thing applies to acrobatics. I guess that is one of the main advantages of Stamina now. The more stamina you have, the longer you can run at top speed (with the sprint button) and the more often you can jump in succession without getting tired. Maybe a higher Stamina will also slightly increase your sprint speed and jump distance/height. Sprinting will probably be close to athletics/speed 100 in Oblivion with the difference that you can only run at that speed for half a minute at most before you need to stop to regenerate your Stamina.

Having a consistent jogging speed for all characters like in Fallout will make the game world feel larger and will make the movement of you character feel more believable. And it will be neither annoying because you are too slow, nor will it be ridiculous and unrealistic because you are so fast that it looks like a time lapse. And from a game balance point of view it will make it much harder to flee from fast enemies, at least if you Stamina is not high enough.

And finally in the default skill leveling system athletics (and partially acrobatics) didn't make much sense. It was basically playing time = athletics skill since you would automatically increase the skill by simply exploring the game world and doing nothing else.

Gahh I'm so excited for this. :biggrin:

It's Tolkien explaining how fantasy worlds have to be made in a way that is understandable and relatable to the reader so they believe in them. It's not ONLY on pg 15 btw, it goes until the next section heading

I like that idea of athletics and acrobatics being linked to stamina level, better than a perk.
however, it is something that can be increased only by leveling up. which goes against the idea that 'I am as I play' where I would have to be doing something to increase movement abilities.

This. Also, the perks system allows for you to have even more control over how you customize your character. So let's recap. Attributes effect on your character are still present in the game just in a different form and in 3 root attribute types AND we get a more indepth and hands on customization with perks. I don't see what there is to be saddened about. I would've thought everyone would be having to change their pants like I had to :tongue:

There's nothing unrealistic, or unnatural about jumping extremely high, or running really fast in Nirn.

Oh well, too bad it's changed!

Too bad you dont know that.. Not to mention that statement solidifies the fact that your against gameplay mechanics. Petty, immature partisanship.

But what makes you think that? There is no evidence that it's gravity is low or that others do it all the time. There is still realism in TES but it is realism in the perspective of the TES mythos. There has to be rules, even in a fictional universe and by all accounts, normal physics still apply to Nirn.

ok, so a perk based on what? what do you have to do to get the perk?

I didn't say that. I just was commenting how both Bethesda and Tolkien do in some ways try to coral their fantasy into believable limits. They don't choose the same limits or the same things to push the boundaries on but I believe Tolkien's explanation is a great estimation of competent worldbuilding

The games, have you played them? The books, the lore, do you know them?


Not really, since Beth is High fantasy and LOTR is arguably low fantasy.

I really doubt he would take the time to read that. He doesn't even read my posts ...


Actually, I'm 100% sure. Because if it hadn't, there would still be an Acrobatics skill and an Athletic skill. Duh.


Pff! :rofl: