If you're referring to the comments made by JohnWhat, I wouldn't take them seriously. He had his carry weight and overall encumbrance limit substantially reduced in his game. Since Fallout Fatigue was designed with typical game settings in mind, it's not surprising he was having problems with it. I've had no issues with encumbrance using it in my games. In fact, overall the mod is working great. I haven't had a look at this one yet but I suspect we're doing many of the same things. I'd be interested to see what's been done with the configuration menu.

Incidentally, in case you haven't already noticed ZenshinZenrei, I ran into a conflict with my mod using the Sprint Mod that was easily fixable through a minor script change in that mod. Apparently the change has already been made in FWE so it's not an issue there. I left a note about it in my readme in case you want more info.

PS: I just had a look at your video. I'd highly recommend you add the panting sounds I've used in my mod. I find they provide a valuable auditory warning system so I don't have to keep monitoring my AP bar all the time. It's pretty easy to do, you can have them kick in based on your Action Point levels.

@Belanos: Thanks for the link. I'm looking over your readme to see if there are any ideas I can incorporate into APP, if you're ok with it. One feature I am considering is the one that deals with an increase in AP usage while in VATS. I left VATS mechanics out of APP, but I think I may experiment adding increased AP in VATS depending on the character's encumbrance. Also, how did you get swimming AP drains to work?


I will release the next version as soon as I finish updating the readme. It will be quite experimental though, as I did revamp the way AP drains for combat actions. But it fixes many issues so hopefully it works well for everyone else.

Looking forward to it, I will probably have my fiance hold off on this version til I play with it a bit, but I'll test and let you know sometime this week here as I should have a few hours to test things out over the week.

By the by, I had tested Bullet Time a little bit, and while it may take a little tweaking on the Bullet Time config to balance it out right, all I have noted is slightly increased AP drain compared to normal, which was basically what I expected to see happen (though this testing is by no means extensive).

I'm... somewhat confused... I think with why you'd put "endurance" for how much AP sprinting uses. Or atleast why you wouldn't have agility play some part in it?

I mean.. ya, Endurance is part but, doesn't sprinting also go hand-in-hand with Agility?

Bah. Next release may be delayed a bit. Seems I ran into a potentially game breaking bug. To fix the problem I may have to remove player collapse. To replace that mechanic I plan on making the severe fatigue penalty a required feature. It will apply only while AP is below zero.




I don't remember the exact reason I didn't use Agility. But I think it has something to do with messing up calculating AP regen rates.

No problem, use what you like. I made the mod for my own use and only posted it because it was working so well, so I'm not all that possessive over it. Especially since there haven't been all that many downloads of it. I guess not too many people are interested in seeing Fatigue used in Fallout. Since I'm happy with the way it's working in my game, I can't see going back to it all except maybe for some very minor tweaks. It's a done deal as far as I'm concerned. So if you can make use of anything in there you're welcome to.



The reason I originally made my mod was that I don't use VATS at all, I have it disabled in my game. So Action Points were a useless feature for me. After looking at the Sprint mod though, I got to thinking about how to put them to use. Then I discovered the Perk Entry Point that allows Action Point usage outside of VATS, and that Fatigue could still be used as a game mechanic. The end result was Fallout Fatigue.



I just added a small extra AP drain on top of the base Running speed. Running while swimming is still considered running in the game so you only need to add a Player.IsSwimming condition for an additional AP drain. It's basically the same way I've dealt with encumbrance actually, just an additional AP drain on top of the base level.

Not really. Agility has more to do with dodging and weaving etc. When you're running in the game you're not doing much of either, you're pretty much just traveling in a straight line most of the time. In Fallout Fatigue I've made Strength and Endurance a factor to consider while running, those two make sense to me. Agility not so much.

That shouldn't be necessary. What's the problem you're having, maybe I can offer a solution.

@Belanos: I have an issue with the PC collapsing at zero AP while firing weapons. The PC may have trouble getting up if he/she collapses onto a static object (table, chair, wall, etc.). If that does happen, there is a chance the PC may not play its get up animation and will continue to flop around in a ragdoll state. I use GetAnimAction for all combat actions. Collapsing from only running does not cause any problems.

And as for swimming, I think the most recent GECK updates broke IsSwimming. I tried it before and I had no luck.

You do realize that you can force a collapse through the use of the Fatigue AV right? It's not necessary to use any special animation to accomplish it. If a character's Fatigue value hits -200 or -250, I forget which, they will collapse on their own. Then they'll get back up when their Fatigue points regenerate enough, which they do just like Action Points. That's a left over from Oblivion that still functions in Fallout. That's what I use in Fallout Fatigue to cause a collapse. It might work better than trying to force an animation to accomplish it, if I understand what you're doing correctly. So if you want the character to collapse if their APs reach 0, than all you have to do is use ModAV Fatigue - 200 or 250 when the APs reach that point.



To tell you the truth, I haven't really monitored my AP loss too closely while swimming. I just kind of tossed that in there. My focus has been on running and encumbrance.

Version 0.20 ALPHA is now available. I guess this wasn't as delayed as I thought

Release notes:
0.20 - Revamped combat actions. New system fixes the issue where AP is not drained when using combat actions while the PC is being targeted by an enemy.
Sneaking AP drain is now determined by Endurance.
Removed collapse effect due to issues with new system. Extreme strain replaces collapse as a penalty to having very low AP.
Improved visual blur effects.




@Belanos: You misunderstood the description of issue. I'm sorry, I guess my post wasn't as clear as I had hoped.

I don't use GetAnimAction for collapsing. What I meant was, the GetAnimAction function is used for combat actions only. The problem is that when a combat animation is active and I collapse from loss of AP (from the combat action), I would have trouble getting up. I would continue to ragdoll for a while. This is even worse when I collapse on a static object. I will never get up.

I'm assuming this was balanced with the menu for disabling strain so that it will only disable general strain, but apply the final penalty when you get to that point, either way I'll let you know how it goes in a couple days - d/ling now.

Yeah, I wasn't too sure what you were getting at, I just figured I'd take a stab in the dark. Sorry I can't help you then as I'm not familiar with GetAnimAction. I'd never even heard about it until you mentioned it. In Fallout Fatigue I dealt pretty much exclusively with AP and Fatigue values.

Tried out the new version, and I must say, I don't think I am very much of a fan of it. The extreme strain effects seem WAY too harsh since I ended up being dead before I could even get my AP to 0 while running around due to the HP hit. I would say remove the hit to HP entirely as it seems a little silly that by exhausting myself I will literally die from it (this is very counter-intuitive to realism in anyway by my standing). I also, personally, feel that the visual blur is back to being a bit too intense again for something as simple as exhausting oneself - perhaps like Belanos mentioned, toss in a heavy breathing sound effect instead, or do both but have the visual effect be VERY mild (as I don't tend to go blind while long distance running, or even get to the point of double vision - maybe a bit of blur though).

As it stands though, even with the changes to improve the combat actions, I'll personally be having to revert back to the old edition here as these current penalties are basically a death sentence in my game. As such, I won't be further testing this version either, as I would not be able to provide much in the lines of decent input since I can easily die with this now just running about, I don't even want to think of trying to move quick in combat and have the actual drain effects from shooting to boot.

@Red Eye: Ok I'll go ahead and reduce the penalties. I'm guessing you set your HP in FWE to some minimal setting? I totally overlooked that scenario. I'll reduce the -15 HP/sec to maybe -5 HP every 10-15 seconds while AP is below 20% its max. That way there is still a death risk from keeping yourself over-exhausted. And I do believe you can possibly die from over-exhaustion, most likely from cardiac arrest. While I don't want to replicate that effect in the game (just thinking about it creeps me out), I thought it would be ok to make the strain from it to hurt you physically. I'll also remove the -5 HP from Severe exhaustion and just keep the -2 to INT and PER.

I'll reduce the blur effects too. Personally I thought they weren't blurry enough but I'll tone them down. Maybe just a tad bit stronger from the previous settings. Also there should be gasping sound effects during Extreme exhaustion. Maybe your character dies too fast to even hear it, or firefights drown out the sounds?

Thanks for the feedback BTW. If no one would've said anything I'd assume this version was a success. I guess not, for now. I'll upload a fixed version in a few hours. If you or anyone has a suggestion for over-exhaustion penalties, please feel free to say something. It's the only thing I can do for now until I can re-add collapsing again without issues.


@Belanos: No worries

No worries at all, and yea, I keep myself in a fairly nerfed state most the time in my game (beyond FWE I also have a few other things that hinder me pretty harshly in there as well). I'll putter around a few ideas with my fiance here over the next day or so while testing the new version when you kick it up and see what all ideas we might be able to come up with (though, overall, I think they are fairly okay for now as it stands, though I won't deny I don't fully understand the Intelligence penalty as I don't see myself getting dumber from a lack of energy - perhaps a hit to Strength instead as the muscles get all weak and jello like from over extending onself). That new calculation you mentioned for HP drain sounds like it would be more reasonable (but maybe not in all instances, as we mentioned I run nerfed, so maybe it would unbalance it for players using different setups - perhaps this would be something else that could be added to the config if you can manage it, a choice between 'Heavy' or 'Lite' penalties when at extreme exhaustion).

I do think you are correct though, that I died too quickly from the HP loss to notice the sound effect, or was too shocked by how quickly I was coming to death from running to pay enough attention at the time.

Version 0.20.01 ALPHA is uploaded.

0.20.01 - Reduced damage penalties from fatigue. This prevents characters with lower base HP settings from other mods from dying too quickly when AP is very low.
Reduced visual blur intensity. Effects should be closer to the original, but with some slightly stronger blur.

Sounds good, I'll grab that now and give it a whirl tomorrow after I get off work, see how things play out with it with my LO.

Also, was it established that the swimming options Belanos used would not work for this? I can't remember.

The function for swimming was broken sometime after one of the FO3 updates. I really can't think of another way to make swimming work at the moment.

Well, that certainly is a shame about the swimming, would have been a nice addition.

Anyways, got to try this out a bit, and I don't think the combat drains are working right - or at least for me, I don't think they were working at all. I tried swinging away with my bat for awhile and never had a hit to AP while attacking the air, same applied to firing off my pistol in quick succession (as I didn't have an automatic to play with at the time). Seeing this, I figured maybe it was the new scripts and they were somehow only draining when in combat now, so queue attacking my follower and beating him to death with my bat in a surely little brawl - over the course of which I lost no AP since I wasn't running, sneaking or using VATS/Bullet Time/Sprint.

Of course, this could mean things just didn't update right on the saved game, and it may require starting fresh for it to work properly, I am not sure as I didn't test that out yet (a little burned out on character generation at the moment). I'll be fiddling around with things to see if somehow things just didn't update right due to something on my end, or if a new game has things working right, but outside my test pool I think I am still going to be rolling with the old 0.1.3a version for now since that seems to still run the best for me so far.

Are you using scripts to create an AP drain with weapon use? If so, that's not necessary. Just use a Perk with a "Calculate Weapon Attack AP Cost" Entry Point, then set some values using the GetWeaponAnimType condition. That's how I'm doing it in Fallout Fatigue.

@Red Eye: Yea shame about swimming.

So it's only combat that doesnt work for you, and movement is fine? It's odd since there's only 1 script that does everything. Maybe try making a clean saved game and reinstall from there.


@Belanos: Thanks for the tip. I'm looking over the function you mentioned. Looks even more precise than the method I'm using now. I did see this function before but I guess I assumed it's used in VATS only, I passed it over.

Update: Your method works(mostly)! As precise as this will ever get. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work for automatic weapons. I guess the next version will be ever better since half of the combat actions will no longer be script based. Yay for lighter scripts. :celebration:

Yes it does, but for some reason the values need to be set really high. Bump it up to about 14 or so and you'll see it working. I got them draining points in Fallout Fatigue but it took me awhile to get the values right. They need to be much, much higher than say pistols. You might want to have a look at what I've done to get an idea of how to set the relative values. I spent a bit of time on them and I think I have them balanced fairly well in comparison to each other. Each weapon anim type pretty much needs it's own entry as they all use up APs differently. The perk is called a2zAPUsage, I give it automatically to the player to be able to make things work.

PS: There's one issue I ran into when setting the values. For some strange reason Sniper Rifles are considered automatics, and since I had to bump the values for that weapon anim type so high I then had to raise the rifle values in order to balance things out. In the end I liked the result though, as there's a fair bit of time between shots when using those types of weapons, giving you lots of time to regenerate APs. I would have had to raise them anyway to make the AP usage for that anim type meaningful.

@Belanos: Thanks for the tip. I decided to keep AP drains scripted for automatics and grenade/mine usage. I still used the proper anim weapon type for sniper rifles though and works like a charm.


For the next version I'm planning on putting in additional penalties for severe and extreme exhaustion. They are: Increased Gun Spread + 10%, Attack Damage and Critical Hit Chance -25% for severe, Increased Gun Spread + 25%, Attack Damage and Critical Hit Chance -50%, for extreme.
My reason for this is I believe the current penalties may not be serious enough to prevent players from constantly pushing past their fatigue limits. INT and PER penalties can be cut in half with Mentats or other chems. HP and Head damage is no longer fatal (with a healthy amount of HP) and can be fixed with applying a Stimpak. Even then the rate of damage is quite slow. So I thought maybe affecting combat should make players think about fighting while fatigued.

Also the next version has even more precise AP drain for combat thanks to Belanos' suggestion. It still needs a bit of tweaking since I felt that characters get too tired easily during combat, especially in melee.

Any suggestions? Feel free to chime in.

I really like these ideas, though I still attest that I believe the INT penalty should be substituted for a STR penalty as this will effect melee damage and carry capacity - I don't really see how the INT penalty really has too terribly much bearing on things (but I may not be fully aware of how things work on the back end of things, but isn't mainly related to getting skill points on level up only). In fact, I would probably be personally willing to use the entirety of the penalty system again myself now that the HP hit isn't immediately fatal and those kind of penalties make far more sense to me for low AP than instantly deadly ones. I would even be inclined to say that those should be spread across more levels and get incrementally worse as you go, but start off with something very small (like a +5%/+15% at the 75-51 slight fatigue range). I would also think having this array of penalties occurring would allow for players to pick and choose when it is best to push for broke or not (much like a person can try to fight through the pain and push on in real life).

Granted, I will mention though, on a balance regard, the penalties currently may be really lite for a vanilla game, but not so much for FWE (depending on how one has their settings). I have chems set more rare than FWE default even, and with all the added new chems, Stims and healing items are a rare luxury in my game (probably more the reason why I felt the penalties were so harsh initially).

Perhaps you could adjust the menu system a little bit in this regard to allow for flavors of penalties. You could have your true version of the mod as the default that loads up automatically with the higher HP hit, though maybe toned down a bit with the new penalties added - would need balance testing, the less HP hit version where it is as it stands now and the HP drain is greatly reduced but stat penalties and other penalties still apply, and possibly an ART specific one where all functions handled by ART are disabled and only your new aspects apply then. If you do go with something like this, though, I would request you still keep in the ability to disable the Encumbrance effects as you have it now since I still feel that is a big personal choice (as I personally feel current game mechanic penalties for encumbrance stand well enough on their own without having to worry about it also draining my AP). But, that is enough on that aspect as I have explained that one as best I can I think and the Encumbrance feature already exists in the menu, so probably don't need to further defend it staying even if you make some adjustments in there.


I look forward to the new combat system, as the way you guys have been discussing it seems to sound really intriguing and dynamic. Anyways, I provided most of my suggestions that I can think of offhand above, so I won't worry about that bit here.

Can't wait for the update, that is all.