1: actualy make dungeons that low level characters have to stealth in. for example- a dungeon has been taken over by a conjurer and you should kill him whilst his cluttered dungeon is filled with dremora . you can fight the conjurur because he's weak, but all the dremora are higher than level 12 and have a tendency to call their friends in on you.

2: make the player scared of being caught!
-add scary sound effects to npcs and the environments, make some echo's
-the people the player is hiding from may sneak up on the player undetected and grab the player
- make the npcs the player is hiding from actually inspire fear. heavy breathing,drible from the mouth,talking, erratic movements etc
- add some amnesia type moments- the player sprinting away, closing a door, barricading the door, hiding in a closet and praying that the monster doesn't open the closet

3: add some hiding holes
- let the player crawl into barrels, hay, closets, large cracks in the ground or walls. or at least let npcs do this

4: play around with the lighting!!
- let the player turn off lights
let the npc's turn them on
- for those scary dungeons- make lights come of on their own, and let the player try to turn them on
- npcs might try use their own source of light

5: add some interesting stealth magic things
- jumping spells, so i can pretend i am the predator and jump from high ledge to high ledge, picking of the prey below
- swift swiming- some underwater stealth missions would be AWESOME. it would be great if i could hid amongst rocks and coral from a terrifying sea monster
- a spell to make light come from npc's eyes so you know what they are looking at.
- wall walking - so i can feel like the alien from the movie alien (spiders should have this constant effect)
- give telekinesis uses in stealth
- a darkness spell
- a quietness spell
a grappling hook spell (play avp:gold , the predator has what i am talking about in the bonus missions , realy fun to use )
- a blind spell

6: actually get some intelligent enemies!!
mage's should use detect life
warriors might swing at your last known position if you go invisible, or play some decent searching animation
creatures should snif you out
they should actualy show their fear
they shouldn't talk to themselves, they should talk to others about where they think you are
they should search for you if they feel confident and know your there, or should become defensive if they are afraid and dont know where you are, or run away if hopeless
if you kill every one and leave no witnesses, you shouldn't get a bounty, even if you killed town guards

Wouldn't mind 1, but I'm certainly in for 2,3,4, and 6

This.

All these ideas sound really good.

I add my voice on to hiding holes that are tucked away and hard to find, but great for sneaking. (Make small holes that can only be accessed by high level acrobatics, etc).

I am all for stealth magic, like jumping. (Definitely makes it more mission impossible)

I am DEFINITELY for NCPs NOT saying "must have been the wind" after I go invisible in the middle of a fight... Maybe give them varied reactions... some run in fear.... some swing randomly... mages cast life detect, some listen for noises, etc

great ideas, but i think the one most likely to be present or implemented in Skyrim would be 6.Thats the best one too IMHO as it adds a real sense of realism to how enemies act. I think 4 is already somewhat in place as (correct me if I'm wrong) recall Todd mentioning in some podcast or article that they were gonna play around and use the lighting much more in skyrim.

I would love if there is a jump spell or wall walking spell

I'd also be over the moon if they make so they're used in a more seamless kind of way, So instead of hitting the keys to ready your spell and then another key to 'use magic' i want the jump spell to be automatic and my jump height be dictated by how long i hold the jump key. tap for a normal jump, hold of a longer jump that drains magicka. Just like Force Jump in Jedi knight outcast. similarly wall walking could be implemented much in the way that Jedi Knight Academy did it.
ie if you hit a wall in mid jump, you tap the jump key to temporarily cling onto the wall, hold the jump key to jump away to another surface, tap to cling on etc etc as long as your magicka holds out. or as you cling, you hold down your run key to run along it.

yes yes yes

Wall walking and jumping for stealth and acrobatic characters more agile and fights more epic.

Also to not repeat easy kills like in oblivion where you could stand on top of a rock and spam arrows at a dumb ai staring at you, they too double jump...

... or there could be ninja assassins clinging on the shadow of a ceiling waiting for you.

Grat idea hope bethessda reading this thread

I hope they make stealth better in skyrim I believe stealth is the most fun way to play

1. Not too sure about the level differences, but i do agree with there being certain elements of dungeon work that allow you to benefit more from stealth. For example an enemy that is particularly tough to face head on due to armour, but has a weak spot if approached from behind. I'd like a stealthy approach to have to be thought about, yet still remain dynamic and fun. Not easy to pull off. To be honest, stealth in Oblivion wasn't terrible, but alot of what makes stealth effective ties into point 6...

2. Agree, with this 100 percent. If i do decide to take on a dungeon the stealthy way, i wanna be tense and be listening for every little sound the nearest monster may make. I wanna be on the edge of my seat. I think a good way to do this would to have scaling A.I. i.e, a monster at lower levels may grow tired of searching for you, but a higher level monster will attempt to trick you, say by making noise by chasing you, then silently creeping till you think you're safe and ambushing you. Again, ties into point 6...

3. This would be a nice addition, but i wouldn't want too many bail out options...

4. Another nice point, i did like the fact that dungeons were literally pitch black in some stretches of Oblivion, i'm sure they'll keep this in Skyrim and tweak on it somewhat.

5. Would be nice to see stealth tackled from a magic perspective. Some nice ideas here, though not all of them are pretty clear "Give telekinesis some uses in stealth" needs to be elaborated upon really. And although some of these sound awesome, i wouldn't want stealth to be too easy!

6. The most important point is this one. Player AI improving would help all the aforementioned points made, and make for a much more rewarding and enjoyable game. Like i mentioned earlier, i'd love to come across different enemies that require a different approach due to their different levels of intelligence. For example, a troll would be easy to trick or flank, but would punish you if you were caught, where as a humanoid enemy may be harder to stealth around but can be dealt with easier head on.

Add the stealth system from the thief games.

Some eerie music with some water-drip sound effects would be great for dungeons, along with a growl or scream from different parts of the dungeon.

This has nothing to do with stealth I know...but you did mention making dungeons scary.

I really like these ideas, they'd make stealth hands-down awesome

Well not to be a jerk but there wasn't really a stealth system in oblivion, less of one in morrowind, so it would be hard for Skyrim to not improve

Fin Gleam pretty much removed an apprehension I once had while dungeon crawling

If anything like that comes back, I take it it'll happen again

I'm with you on all accounts, except for a lot of your ideas in 5. I personally think that things like a jumping or wall walking spell would be too hard to do well, and personally don't even interest me. I could MAYBE see a grappling hook, but only if they could do it well. as for a quietness/darkness spell, I honestly don't want too much magic mixed into stealth simply because magic is in all fantasy worlds extremely powerful. I don't want the stealth game to be made into something any dedicated mage could play, it should be something that you have to put time and effort into to get good at. a perfect example is the ability in oblivion to get a 100% Chameleon effect through enchanting. this essentially makes stealth (and really anything) useless. A lot of what you are recommending in 5 would simply require you to be a mage in order to be the best thief, and being a thief would fall by the wayside.

all but 5, i didnt like most of the thing said in 5 this isnt AvP we aren't aliens.. but the others would add nice immersion i especially like being able to put lights out and such...unless they did the same ambient light like in OB, i dont know if this is confirmed or not though

Some nice ideas here,i have to say. Though not the wall crawling one,for spiders yes....for us,no.
But the fact archery seems better and we saw the stealth attack in the trailer,that really pleased me to see. You have alot of good ideas there,but we have to be realistic sometimes with what they fit in the game. But kudos,nice topic...lets hope you contribute to it more :thumbsup:

I would like to be able to be able to hug walls with my body and to peak around corners

That would be nice
Although we have to have limitations,i'm a believer,where possible,that NPC's should be able to do what we do,within reason. It makes things more interesting.
Imagine your peeking around a corner and the NPC does it at the same time....would make me chuckle :biggrin:

I really like number 5. Especially the underwater part, there was almost no point in having things like water breathing and walking because they were hardly ever used. So I would definately like more underwater themed environments. And the darkness and quietness spell would be great too.

I also like that they've added the alert thing now,sounds alot better this time around. @ Jack: Some of these ideas maybe in.Even though we've heard about stealth and combat,we haven't heard everything about it yet,so some of this may be possible....will be interesting to find out more,when it comes.

I was about to talk about the alert thing, it sounds similar to the sneak system from FO3, which is a good thing IMO. In OB I never really liked stealth but in FO3 it was one of my favorite things.

Having more powerful bows will help too and since mysticism is gone, I'm hoping detect life is merged into illusion, making it the ultimate stealth magic school.

these would make stealth and the game a whole lot more fun. i however think they won't spend that much time for stealth mechanics, BUT i'd love them to make a 1st person stealth game

Yes to all!

IN general, nice ideas.

But how would #1 work if you're at a low level, and need to use stealth to get past high level creatures? Wouldn't your sneak ability be too low to use? (Or are you thinking an invisibility potoin? )