I always assumed that he used the metal as souls in the games use skin and bones; actual material that let's the soul do stuff, although no making up the entirety of the person. However, he was able to beat the [censored] out of Dagon without it so I don't know.

My guess is it didnt have a phisical shape until its arrival on Nirn.

Maybe it took that form to represent its function as an anchor to reality.

Plus, i dont think Akatosh?s dragon form was stablished until mortals started relating that image to the time god.

It's all been planned out by Beth for years. TES V is going to be Akatosh's Spaceship Adventure. There was actually a secret mini game version of it in Oblivion, which involved Occam's Razor and White Gold Tower, but a previous incarnation of mine was smitten by a powerful hammer for enlightening too many members with the truth, so we shan't go there.

The Adamantium Tower is the dragon's muatra. Maximum penetration.

Perhaps it was a key part of bringing about Lorkhan's Divine Pact, when the Aedra gave up parts of themselves.

Which is what Shades said.

I've always thought of as more like a radio tower, transmitting the power that the Aedra gave up, allowing mortal myths to influence the god-planets, create magical effects associated with the constellations. And possibly providing the power for the imitation towers to work (I don't know whether to think of them as also drawing power out or if they simply bolster and channel the power). But that's just my take on it.

That's true.

Just for clarification, I was saying that Adamantia is basically Akatosh's insemination of Nirn, which was the most significant act of the Convention, if not THE act of the convention.

I suppose it can be looked at it like that.

[censored] > Radio Tower, sorry; I'm gonna have to go with 94600 on this one.

Really, guys? The scientific term?

I don't think there is a scientific term for a mythical creature's reproductive organ, let alone a solid idea of what it would be like.

Edit: I mean, there isn't much lore on Dragon anatomy in TES, let alone their reproductive systems.

Wouldn't Adamantium Tower be a part of the liminal barrier, thus it's purpose would be that primarily? Keeping Mundus safe from Oblivion? I am pretty sketchy on this part of lore, I just read the Guardian theory at the Imperial Library, and I must say my head is swirling.

According to the Nal-Hutta Intercept, the Towers are meant to steal creatia from Oblivion (or is it Aetherius?) while keeping Nirn safe from things like the Oblivion Crisis. If Martin changed the deal that Alessia made, are the Towers still important? If the statue was broken would the barrier break again?


Woah, woah, I just read in http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=940797&hl=Towerthat the Zero Stone was the Convention. And I thought I understood some of what was going on :blink:

Ack, now I'm confused.

Stones gather Creatia to mold creation.

They're echoes of Zero Stone, i.e. the Convention, the act(s) that created Creation.

Bringing about the start of creation is the ultimate form of "molding creation."

Thus, the Convention is indeed Zero Stone.

You're thinking about things too scientifically. Science isn't the most popular thing in Tamriel. Well, there was that one race who loved it, but then they ended up turning themselves into a huge effective failure of a statue, or into ash, or something else unattractive.

Man, if the censorship groups knew what was really going on with the Elder Scrolls games, we'd never see another one.

Well, it seems this conversation has died down a bit again, so if I may I would like to post a few questions. Apologies to Don't Forget This if I am overstepping my bounds in your thread, thank you.


I have recently created an RP surrounding the Towers and the various things the represent, notably the Liminal barrier. I tried to make it as lore accurate as possible, but I would like to check with the lore community as the RPing community scours it for interesting-ness. Thanks again:


"Ours is the duty to keep the compromise from being filled with black sea."




Overall plot of the RP:

This is set to be only the first in a series of several RPs, centered around the mystery of the great Towers of Nirn and their mythical Stones. The Towers, before the Oblivion Crisis, were the only thing that maintained the barrier between Oblivion and Mundus, and the destruction of the Heart of Lorkhan coupled with the taking of the Amulet of Kings is what weakened this barrier and allowed Dagon to enter the mortal realm. Each Tower corresponds to a Stone, the focal point for its power, and each Stone is kept safe by a Guardian.

The first Tower, or should I say the Zero Tower, was Adamantine, the source of the Convention and vessel of Akatosh. The next Tower was Red Mountain, formed during the Convention when Lorkhan's heart was shot across Tamriel. The order of the later Towers is uncertain, but the Towers constructed by the mer in the echo of the Zero Tower are the following: Green-Sap (Falinesti), Walk-Brass (Numidium), Crystal-like-Law (Crystal Tower), High Hrothgar, White Gold and, though it is destroyed, Orichalc (Yokuda). In the http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml it is stated that there are eight towers on the rim and a single tower at the hub, the great mockery of Aurbis gave White Gold great power. But hold, there are only seven outlying towers mentioned (Adamantine, Red, Crystal, Green, Numidium, Hrothgar, and Orichalc), so what is the eighth? It has been said that the Khajiit's deep connection with the Lunar Lattice, and the theory has been supported that they too are mer. Thus we can only come to the conclusion that the eight tower is in Elsweyr, and has deep connections with the cat folk and their moon sugar.

In "http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/nalionarticle2.shtml", Nalion Leoriane theorizes that the Towers were only tools, and the Stones the method of using them, that these tools must be wielded by a Guardian that the Liminal Barrier might be maintained. With the absence of the last Guardians, Vivec and the Emperor, even those Towers that still had Stones could not keep Oblivion out of Nirn.

This is why the Oblivion Crisis occurred, why the Mythic Dawn could bring Dagon to Nirn, and one of the greatest wonders of Mundus. At the end of the Crisis, Martin gave himself up as the everlasting Guardian, altering the covenant between Alessia and Lorkhan/Akatosh that the Towers would be replaced by him and the great dragon statue at the Temple of the One.

Thus are the Towers, their secret going unnoticed by the masses of Tamriel, only the ancients and the most wise aware of their importance. But what if the dragon statue is broken? What if all the Guardians are not truly gone? What if someone were to gather all the remaining Stones, visit each Tower still standing, and break once more the barrier, and the jaws of Oblivion gape wide once more?



"Aad semblio impera, dela can carpio semblex."

not quite sure where the plot comes in. however, i'm going to say that breaking all the towers will do more than just let oblivion invade.

Can Adamantium Tower be broken or deactivated?

yes, i'd say. not in any conventional sense, but theoretically possible. the consequences would be disastrous, considering its stone is the possipoint. then again, the total dissolution of Nirn is what the elves were after all along.

vaguely on topic semi-late-night rambling: i would go so far as to say that the towers are fated to be destroyed as part of the cyclical nature of creation. as the devolution of the mortal upturns into the evolution into god, the towers must be broken to release Nirn from arbitrary barriers. it must also be noted that the destruction of towers is a strictly mannish affair, while their building is strictly elven. the victory over Auriel through the destruction of his tower - coupled with the release of Lorkhan already amply underway - would truly be a victory for man.

Ah, my apologies (If you intend to participate in the RP and are reading this, please do not highlight the spoiler. Thank you)


I don't intend to break all the Towers, just take their Stones and kill their Guardians :twirl: Not sure what other effects this would have, though I'm sure some kind of unwinding of Nirn would ensue. I wasn't going to have Adamantium's be taken, or it somehow destroyed, being Adamantium's stone is the Convention.

Oh, and thank you, Lady Nerevar, for the quick response. Very much appreciated

killing the guardians (who i dont think exist as such) and taking the stones equate to breaking the towers. not entirely sure what you mean by taking the stones either, considering they aren't all physical things that can be carried.

anyways, Oblivion invaded plenty of times while the towers stood. Not only that, but it continues to impact our world even after the door has supposedly been shut. there is no absolute barrier or pact against the princes.

im going to come back tomorrow, i really have no idea what im saying anymore

I see, but of the stones we know of, are not most of them gems? The Heart appears as a gem, the Amulet most certainly is, and the Mantella is actually a soulgem.

I agree a lot with the Guardian theory, the words of the Prophet really cemented it for me:



Or are the guardians he's mentioning just the Towers themselves?

Regardless, it must be said that they Towers had a definite relationship with the Oblivion Crisis, and if the barrier were to break once more a similar event is sure to follow. Though I could be wrong...

Thanks again

I don't own the thread. say whatever you want as long as it is within the Forum rules



Who said Orchalic is destroyed? Not all of Yokuda is destroyed.

And wasn't the Staff of Chaos a Tower?

im pretty sure the destruction of Orichalc is cannon.

Nope, the staff was not a tower. It was a mimicry of the universal structure, but that doesn't make it a tower.

Dark: the heart was a heart, not a gem. the amulet was a gem - but it was also the body of two gods. Mantella's power came not from its gemyness but from the fact that it held the soul of a powerful wizard (who was part of a divine mythecho and stuff). Not to mention that it was actually just a replacement for Anumidium's original stone.

I kinda still find it debatable whether or not the Staff of Chaos is a Tower; you gotta remember that Towers mold Creatia for a race and a nation. What race is it a Tower for?

edit: Wow, you LITERALLY said that in the post above mine, LN. I'm a [censored].

Yeah I know it mimics the Wheel and all that crap. But that's basically it. It has a guest appearance in the Sermons as well.