As far as I understood ZOS - You could tweak the UI, which for me was refering to eyecandy move things around add unicorn decals.

Getting into monitors / metets - that tell you every shard location, resource spawn, quest solvers. Cheapens the gameplay and makes you less player.

Getting into PvP - telling you buffs, debuffs, skills, timers to interrupt kind of stuff. That's just cheating - it's advantage over those who "chose" not to use and suffer for it.

And the fact, that it's not about you recording something you found for personal use later. You access a database that tells you EVERY locations of something that you didn't find.

Main concern is advantage in PvP depending on what information can be collected.

PvP = griefers too, let's get rid of that while we're at it. Seriously, in my 15-year MMOing career, i've been griefed VASTLY more times due to PvP than due to people having add-ons. I say we nip that in bud here and now by making ESO a 100% PvP-free experience. Who's with me?!

Cisgenders = Bad people too, Let's get rid of all that while we're at it. Seriously, in my 15-year Trans career, I've been griefed VASTLY more times due to cisgender than due to people having add-ons. I say we nip that in the bud here and now by making ESO a 100% Cisgender-free experience. Who's with me?!

this... people keep svcking information out of their thumbs about add ons anyway...

Part I: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1490400-mods-arent-optional-and-dps-meter-is-real-get-in-here/

Part II: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1490451-mods-arent-optional-and-dps-meter-is-real-get-in-here-v2/

I knew that you'd need mods for PvP, but this to me seems like you can no-skill it since a mod can tell you when to avoid, block, and interrupt.

With this one mod: http://youtu.be/_BFbBMW2ZGM you can see: individual raw damage, crit damage, target HP, XP gained, targets buffs/debuffs, CC timers/stun timers, targets resistance, CD timers, what skill target is using and whether that skill can be interrupted - AKA you can see everything under the sun with mods.

I'm not going to be dramatic (exception being thread title ) and say "WOW CLONE GAME SUX" or "NOSKILL GAME NOT PLAYING!" However, I want to know if a compromise can be reached. Mods/addons are NOT cheating, but some players want to watch the action and not the UI without the fear of being the group's weak link.

In the name of the people, I plea to the developers to create a check box option similar to the "RP" option that allows players to be grouped with other non-mod users. This way hardcoe players can still measure their damage to the decimal, and purist players can keep their naked UI without the worry of hindering their group.

This is not about stopping bad things from happening, they are going to happen whether add-ons are allowed or not. The question is whether they make the situation worse, which I believe they will. One of the things you guys might not realize is that the game client already has access to a huge amount of game data that can be captured, anolyzed and potentially exploited. Raph Koster (one of the lead designers for Ultima Online, one of the first MMOs) famously once said "The client is your enemy". Anything important needs to remain server side only, and NOT exposed in the client. Too late for that, we already have some of that in the game. Any steps that are taken to give easier access have the potential to open up devastating holes. The developers can say "All we are exposing is the UI with an XML interface that doesn't provide access to game code" and that may be true in design. I've heard it said a thousand times, and then the unexpected access holes emerge. It will happen.

The only question really on the table is how far you want to go in balancing the desire for benign 3rd party modifications against the inevitable trade off of providing more opportunities for the not-so-benign. If a development company is willing to accept the added responsibility of coding work-arounds to problems, hiding access as holes are discovered, and customer support is willing to devote more time to the added problems, then maybe they are prepared to make that trade off.

But I don't see why it's necessary or a good idea.

REMEMBER:

This is NOT about whether mods are cheating or not; mods aren't cheating.

This IS about whether having a check box that groups other non-mod users is a good idea.

Some people want this feature; that's okay.

Some people don't want this feature; that's okay.

Be respectful either way.

You know the drill. Go.

Wow you really have no idea what Add-ons are or how they work.

You need to add two more checkboxes:

"Do you want the developers to spend any time working on fixes for the problems that arise as a result of having add-ons for those who want them?"

"Do you want support to devote some of their time dealing with problems that arise as a result of having add-ons for those who want them?"

Yes I do, but that's not for this thread.

Also, just for the record, I intend to use maximum mods that the game allows.

free ice cream.

*Takes ice cream.* Thanks Reign.

Where in this video does it show information regarding the targets resistances etc? I can see a wealth of information but I can't see anything with regards to this.

Well mainly it is because of the pvp cheat mods seen in many of the pvp videos that were released after the nda dropped.

When you use a mod that tells you more about my character than you can learn by just looking you are cheating.

I have a question. If you can see what some guy way in the back is about to be able to heal/cast/whatever, how is that not cheating?

Any half way real combat situation would allow nothing even close.

All addons. ALL. Use information that is obtainable in the game. None of them get info that you wouldn't be able to get otherwise.

Most addons make a summary of the combatlog, so instead of you looking over lines and lines of text and calculating numbers in order to get your average dps, the addon does that for you. Would that be cheating ?! I'm sure it is for some...highly intelligent people around here.

Alert addons read the combatlog and notice when it says "Nooblord is casting I[censored]younow" and tells you what Nooblord is doing without you having to read the combatlog which you would never do, but still what Nooblord is doing is no secret, it's written in the [censored] combatlog which you, personally, don't read.

I've been kicked out of groups in WoW too often for having 40k DPS in LFR and been locked out of enough boss fights in FFXIV because I actually want to watch the cutscenes to know that I would want this option.

You want to judge your groups performance? Sure. But let me join a group that doesn't care about it. I don't WANT to care about what I press, when, and how often. No, I don't care what your opinion is on how this game should be and I don't care what you think MMOs should be or your reasoning as to that.

I don't want to be "taught" how to play better by people who do- I want to play with people who don't care. I'm not going to go into raiding at end-game, I'm not going to try to be emperor. I'm going to collect pets and lollygag, because that's what I do, and I don't want to be turned into a hard core raider, and I want to have fun without looking at a single number or mechanic. That's how I have fun. We play games to have fun still, right?

I find nothing appealing in learning how to twitchplay and react precisely and accordingly. I don't even care if we wipe a few times, we'll get it eventually. Bosses shouldn't be tuned for experts unless you're doing end-game difficulty stuff. I don't want people telling me to stop playing and uninstall just because I don't play how they think I should.

This option only lets me get away from people who care how they do. I don't care whether they're "hardcoe pro wannabes" or "raiders" or "people with a healthy interest in their performance" or "team players", whatever you call them matters absolutely zip to me. I know how I like to play and what makes the game funnest for me (and apparently people other than just me) and I know we all play for fun. Many people obviously don't equate good performance with fun so...option it is.

ESO =/= Real Combat Simulator.

Watch out man you are ruining my immersion of a 100ft tall king of struggle-snuggle invading Tamriel.

I think it's akin to being a human on a battlefied filled with cyborgs, to use a strange anology. Everyone has access to the same skills and information, but with technology some are going to be able to access that information easier and faster, and through no personal skill of their own.

Because they is the DEVIL, Bobby Boucher.

Except that I do. You're forcing me to be immodest. I won 1994 Product of the Year from InfoWorld for the first product I ever wrote, and went on from there. I've been an MMO gamer since UO Beta and have written plenty of add-ons in games that allowed them. I'm not an add-on god or anywhere near the best coder around, but I do know what I am talking about, whether you accept that or not. I'm trying to be civil here, and not get personal, it's not a moral issue, it's just a game. This is a forum where people discuss ideas, and that's what we're doing. And I've stated my preference and my reasons.

Your turn.

this

+1

Is there something in the air today? What's with all the add-on related threads?