Not at all. What they can do is pull back what the api allows. Viola, most complaints about the addons vanish. It is not about addons in general, but specific addons and possible advantages they can supply.

Depends on the view points of who we are talking about. You and I are "they" at times, are we not? So are we totally ignoring each other, or is it a simple disagreement on details? The only way you will ever be pissed off about this is if you allow it. But, in the long run we will all have to do what Zen wants, and I have no issues with that either...

Decursive was one of the 'healing' addons that had to be nerfed. For those who never healed in WoW, at one point it was a one button multiple debuff remover. Much too powerful for one press of a button. Shaman totem did the same thing for certain debuffs and WoW devs eventually took that out too. Now debuff remove spells are on cooldown.

What good addons like Healbot or if you like Grid/Clique did was to present information in graphical form so healers could heal more efficiently to prevent running out of mana. From the time I played, Healbot was a relatively meat-and-potatoes healing addon but no way was it designed to remove extra information. It presents healers with more information such as which party or raid members needed priority heals, who has debuffs, ability to blacklist heals, and even little things like class indicators, heal over time effects on targets taking into account your own and other healers in the raid, the feature list goes on and on. It made healing much more effective and allowed the group or raid to progress faster through content.

Early WoW addons were relatively crude and didn't provide that much information. These addons being developed for ESO look nearly as good and informative as the ones in WoW now. Players are going to tear through content. ZOS had better be prepared to put out new content quickly.

I can't bend my left thumb due to shrapnel, if we gonna compare now? Someones eyesight is very different you can't compare there. Also Lets get them to put it in permanently then noone can complain. oh wait then the minimalists will cry.

1. Oh yea I think I do get it... They will allow what you don't want and thats upsetting to you...

2. Sorry to read about your handicaps. I have flat feet...

3. I thought it was, sorry bat that...

4.Good... Before long you will even like using them too.... Come to the dark side Luke...

I am speaking broadly. This subject has come up several times and it is always heated. Anyone that has been around for awhile... knows that this could easily be a deal breaker for plenty of players. It needs to be spoke on by them and I hope for some middle ground.

I'm in the group that is ok with addons... but not the addons I am seeing in many of these videos.

Maybe remove is the improper term to you, but turning the frame in to a single color block with simple indicator for only buffs/debuffs that you cared about is removing information to me. I no longer have to visually chase what I think is a debuff around a default raid frame while 37 temporary buffs were applied, renewed and expired. At least that was always my goal when healing.

I know what an API is as i am a programmer myself.

They can allow what info the API can give the player. They can also make it what the API can give to the request base on certain factor too. Asking for an option to hide info is actually doable.

I see this thread has lost its flavor ... been chewed on too long

But god I don't want to deal with that. I know it's doable.

I sense a disturbance in the force (elder scrolls community)

What it has been is a scare tactic used from those who, for what ever reason would like no changes made to their fond memory of Morrowind, Oblivion and etc etc... For the most part they are using false information and spreading scare propaganda to many here who have not even used add ons before, and falsely claiming it will ruin the game or even better, that you will be banned for life if you use them! Most of this spewing is nothing but pure HOGWASH and should be completely dismissed by anyone with any common sense. Of course this is just another opinion, and for the add on naysayers, its just more gas for the machine...

sigh....

Guess what... the game creator doesn't need to create a UI for players to enjoy or interact with the games mechanics. They simply have to provide the doorway - create a self serve mechanism - have it your way. It's what everyone wants now days. Most MMO"s do this because it's good business sense. They don't have to spend their wheels/budget on creating a UI that some like and some don't, fixing it, fixing the bugs with it etc, rather than focus on gaming content. Just roll out a "vanilla UI" that has the engine behind it, and let the players create/customize UI's that they want to interact with that engine. Everyone's happy... game creators, game players... except you.

Now that we know the business side of it, lets focus on the player side of ad-on UI's.

If you don't think you need an add-on UI beyond the vanilla UI provided by the creator, I would say you have never really played an MMO with a guild or an alliance.

You may have crafted, wandered around the world, done some quests (all tasks which typically have GREAT ad-on UI's in MMO's)... but that is not playing a MMO as it was built to be played to it's maximum. Many encounters require detailed information that has to be shared instantly among the group to ensure attacks are coordinated and executed properly. This game has synergies and open PvP. Without having the chance to get to beta test synergies, you can make some assumptions that if one player does an action, then another player gets an opportunity to do a synergistic action and as a result they achieve a greater result than if they did it alone. This is not uncommon in MMO's.

Player made UI's provide the flexibility to interact with the game without the shackles of having a limited UI. The limited UI provided by the creator keeps gaming costs down for players, increases gaming content and creates a better experience for all players... even those who choose not to use add-on's because they get the benefit of the lower costs and increased content.

I'll see you in game and I'll be the one whooping your azz with my player made ad-on UI - giving me the advantage that you refused to take.

Problem solved then.

Addons are NOT the issue. You may not see it in the UI, but ALL of this information is sent to your game client in the course of normal gameplay. People that want an edge WILL obtain the information they want one way or another. If they can't get it with mods they will get it with illicit 3rd party tools. Third party cheating tools are well known for creating instability, compromising security, not to mention creating an uneven playing field. Cheaters will always exist but by making much of the desired information available to modders it reduces the incentive to hack the game client and communication protocols. Granted, cheater detection has come a long way but it is far from perfect and has a very hard time of detecting passive tools that simply mine the game client for information without attempting to actively change it.

If you don't want people to have this kind of information the game has to be architected so that game clients never see other players private information. This requires significantly more processing power on the server side and ultimately limits how many people can play together and how responsive their game experiences will be.

No, it's not solved.

Solved would be everyone getting used to the addons we already have.

And then some other programmer will make another that fixes it, and then.... On and on and on.... I turned the jeep..., over......

So much wrong here. Not all addons are bad. Addons that give an advantage are bad. No one said you should be banned for life for using them. You take one example of something similar way out of context.

THere has been just as much hogwash said on the pro addons side as well

And speculation is a wonderful thing and amuses the idle minds...

That's not removing information. That's changing the tiny debuff indicator on the default raid frame to a color change on the health bar in the addon frame. In that example, the same info is merely being presented in a different way.

Also, default WoW options allow you to display only dispellable debuffs as well as aggregate buffs if you want.

We actually don't have any add ons/mods because the game has not been released.

That is why i did not say anything about making a mod to hide the info because that is not the right way. The right way is to ask ZOS to change the API to have an extra permission checking before sending the information from the API. If the info stopped at the internal API level, then the info will never be sent except packet / memory sniffing which required 3rd party program.

Yes, they did...

I guess I'm imagining these. http://www.esoui.com
denial doesn't do anyone favors.

Like, come on, any evidence against you you just throw out. You're not even fun to debate against.

Knowing someones moves and attacks doesn't mean you'll win that fight 100% of the time, if that was the case my record for SSF4:2012 would be 100% win. sadly its at 64%. SSF4 since 2009-2011 with over 6k+ matches 700+hrs not including friendly offline games.