I was thinking last night as I sat in my chair wondering just were I was going to get 8 troll fat's, so that I could craft Ebony un-armored for my mage follower. ( mod'ed follower that wear's Thalmor robes default..umm not good for RP...lol). It had taken forever to get the Ebony, then I thought, "Ya know I am on pc now, I could just "add.item" ... or go to Labyrinthia where I know their are a couple trolls and I might find more ( I had the one on the way to H.H. ) * I went to Labyrinthia..actually ran into a couple more than I needed*

And that is where my inner debate starts.. When is adding an item or perk or enchant or...anything really, a cheat? Which is not a great word, but the best one I can think of...atm. I gave my self "unrelenting force" on one of my Characters when the word wall glitched out ( and going back to a previous save didn't work). That I don't consider cheating. I'm on the fence about giving a "light" armored character ( or cloth) heavy smithing perks to improve their followers armor better, why waste perks going up both sides of the tree, but I have done it on 360 and pc. And I think ( for me anyway) that just console commanding say "Dawnbreaker" for a character would be cheating ( unless of course the quest glitched out)

Plus doing some of the console command's kinda ruins some of the experience ( not to mention can have some bad consequences)...imo.. But I was wondering what everyone else thinks... ( not leaving out our 360 and ps3 players...ya'll have an opinion I am sure.)

Actually, it's up to you to decide what is cheating and what is not cheating. Obviously, adding items by using console commands is not playing the game.

There is an unowned Ebony mine between Riften and Windhelm (northwind Mine), And Labyrinthian, externally has 3-4 trolls in it, and a few more on the approach to the word wall to the east of Labyrinthian.

When You feel guilty, then it is cheating.

I have a character I use to test Armor added by Mods, and I have no guilt adding ingredients for the Armor to be crafted, but My Armorer character is a Save just for the purpose of Testing Armors.

I think it's simply a matter of when and how you do it. If, for instance, you are rleoplaying a rich noble warrior, does it make sense for him to not have access to decent weapons and coin? Even if his property is taken by the Imperials at Helgen, wouldn't it be likely that help and money is only a courier away? If you are playing a Conan, isn't he supposed to have a steel greatsword he got from a long ago cave?

Personally, I would never additem a quest item like Dawnbreaker because it's not really roleplaying (and dangerous to your game). but if having item X is part of your character's story, why not? It's YOUR game to play YOUR way, after all. Just don't be braggin on the forum about all the cool stuff you character's got if you added it by console, eh?

I always use console commands to get a character started. Say if I'm making a mage who has years of experience I use the commands to give him the equipment and spells he would have.

Same applies to all my characters, I enjoy not spending hours or days playing to get items on a character just to rp them like I did back on the Ps3.

I use the commands on my Skaal characters to bring life back to the villiage, mostly setquest stage and the shout to destroy the stones.

That is a great way to look at it!

For my playing style, if it allows me to "pass up" playing the game, then I see it as cheating. Even when I fast travel, I feel like I am cheating. But... I do it anyway

In ways that's pretty much what I mean, I have a hard time, sometimes thinking of a good reason why my 2h character that started by camping, has only a 1h axe.

Enen when I played on 360 I would "setup", my character a week to a month before I really started RP'ING them, so that they would have everything that they logically should have.

I do like the, if you feel guilty about it, it's cheating.. that's a good way to put it.

I really just wanted a discussion on the subject, cause it's nice to know how other people think. My characters generally bust their Fannies for the things they get, unless their is an RP reason that they got it easy.

For instance, Sabella has Blackthorn, but she spends none of the money from revenue on her, only to purchase those things a follower might need, otherwise she buys her items with money earned. She also doesn't buy smithing items from the vendors, period, not even for followers. Her rp is that she inherited the manor and has earned the title of Thane, but it comes with little to no income.

Mostly just because that is my RP. I know I could have console commanded everything needed to make her followers robes, but to me that isn't as fun... As I said, I just wanted to know everyone's thoughts.

I thought I had a thought once, but I guess it was indigestion...

I should feel a little guilt over most of My Mages crafting a Staff of Storm Atronach using the Atronach Forge in the Midden of the College of Winterhold. Atronach Forge Recipes should be fairly common loot when raiding Mage and Necromancer Lairs, but the Recipes do not show up in the Game until a character aquires a Sigil Stone. The better recipes also require being able to read Daedric Script.

I also feel no guilt in adding Trollsbane, because the Game (or a Mod) has caused it to not remain in the inventory of its former owner through an entire playthrough.

I have a few Saved Games with characters that have over a hundred portions of Glow Dust, resisting using the Saves for building a Destruction Mage is difficult.

Sorry I am a wee bit backwards today, I had to do that awful thing that intrudes.. go to work...lol

Thank you, I do keep forgetting about that particular mine.

You know I keep telling myself I am going to get the ID numbers to some armors, so that I can add them in when I do the camping start LAL, along with the right weapons for the character, but I never remember to do so.

I added two quest item once for a pic for a friend, using his slider settings to create his character ...he plays on ps3 and wanted a really nice pic... That is the only time I have ever done that and even though it was just for a pic, it still felt wrong. I deleted the character as soon as he said he loved the pic's btw.

I wouldn't brag about simply typing a couple things into my pc... now getting it by going through a really tough dungeon , that I would brag about.

I like working for my characters items and even to an extent their followers.. I know some people do add really high lvl items to their game while they are low lvl and I have no issues with that, it's their game. And here's a good one... goofy me has Sabella taker her followers through a couple bandit forts so that we can sell all their stuff, so we can buy spells to teach to our mage follower, who for some reason has no low lvl spells except ward and healing. He has Ice Storm, but not frost or Ice spike.. that kinda thing...

It's personal preference, so whatever you are comfortable with. Personally, I don't use console commands very much when I play, but I will to fix a glitch. For instance, if I drop an item on the ground and it vanishes (which sometimes does happen in Skyrim), then I have no issue adding the item back with the console. Or, if I accidentally hit the wrong button in the vendor menu and sell my prized possession to a vendor, I will just add the amount of gold needed to buy it right back with the console. But other than that, I would not just add things to make life easier for my character because that would take away the fun for me.

A lot of people use the console to start a character with certain starting gear. I've never done that but I would for the right character.

I also use the console a lot when I am playtesting a new mod to see if it is working properly. Like, for instance, in my Requiem load order, Requiem modifies the Archmage Robes, but when I added Immersive College of Winterhold it alters the Archmage Robes too. I wanted the Requiem Archmage Robes, but Immersive College of Winterhold needs to load after Requiem to make the College NPCs go to the Hall of Elements each day for training and to make other changes to the NPCs. I loaded Immersive College of Winterhold after Requiem and then loaded the NRM Dragonborn Requiem patch (which also changes the archmage robes) after Immersive College of Winterhold. When I went in game to test, I used the console to get the Archmage Robes to make suer they were properly modified.

I mainly use the console for two reasons: mod testing and roleplaying.

1. Mod testing. I use the heck out of the COC command when "auditioning" a new mod. I first look at mods in the Creation Kit, and if they pass that preliminary test I go into the game and check them out. I will COC to the location(s) added by the mod, if any, and take a look around. I'm want to know if I like the look and feel of the new stuff, and if so, if it conflicts with any other new stuff added by any other mod in my list. I may do this several times as I resolve conflicts or tinker with the mod to suit my taste. (I'm an incorrigible "mod-tinkerer." I'm always tweaking mods. It's a bit like "marking my territory," making it my own, in some way. I'm just not easy until I have put my own stamp on a mod.)

I also occasionally add gold to my inventory, in order to try out items added to a merchant. I do this a lot with mods that add shops. I'll make my character filthy rich and try on everything in the shop, to see if I want to keep the mod or not.

2. Roleplaying. I play a lot of characters who have extensive backgrounds. They may have years of experience behind them before the game begins. So it makes little sense to me for these characters to start out with in rags and wielding an iron dagger.

I typically give specialized gear low stats, to begin with. Armor will have stats roughly equivalent to leather, weapons will have stats roughly equivalent to iron. As my character levels up and finds better equipment I go in the CK and change the stats of her gear. So, for instance, when she loots an Orchish weapon I change the stats of her weapon to those of Orcish. When she loots a Glass weapon I change the stats of her weapon to those of Glass. I do the same with armor and jewelry. This way she can have the stat benefit of looting better gear while retaining the look of her personalized gear.

I used to frequently play a character that was a "Dr Jekyl Mr Hyde type". In one version he was a bandit lord, in the other he was a female mage. I accomplished this by creating batch files that changed gender, clothes, and weapons. I threw a real 20 sided die to determine when changes occurred.

In a multi-player game, cheating gives you an unfair advantage over other players. In a single-player game, there is no one to cheat against, therefore no such thing as cheating.

The question is this: does it reduce, rather than enhance, your personal enjoyment?

Thank you all... I really like reading the different ways that people look at things. I am just learning about the CK and how to do things, so I don't muck around with it with it, just reading/ watching the tutorials still. Which is another reason for asking what people do as far as console commands are concerned. I know they can mess up your game and I have used them very sparingly because of that.

And I really have thought about starting my own character out with the items that he would have, I have started the character 3 times, LaL Vigilant of Stendar start, but with what he was given, nothing added... never seem's quiet right. I guess one of these days I will try "his" RP again adding in the type of things that he would have and see if that helps at all. Or it may just be that it's not an RP I can "get into" right now.

I got the pc so I could have mod's, I was actually pretty happy playing on 360. I am happy just being able to make lydia walk like a lady not like a man with a corn cob up her... ya'll get the picture. And other mod's of course.

This describes me almost perfectly. I also personalize most of the mods that I use. I have a set routine of DL a mod, open in CK to check for obvious problems then using xEdit to clean it. Then I load it in game and COC to any new locations added to check it out. In most cases with a house, town or dungeon mod I'll end up editing various things. I'll usually adjust lighting, clean up excessive clutter and mannequins. I really dislike mannequins in bedrooms. They're creepy, move around too much and are generally distracting. I also create a personal "tweaks" mod that I constantly tinker with/add on to that adjust things in the base game/DLC that annoy or irritate me. Going back to console usage, I have an extensive collection of batch files that I use. Some are for personalizing a newly created character. Others I use vary from things like making favorite NPCs essential, making disliked NPCs hostile (e.g. Jaree-Ra) so they can be killed without raising a bounty, temporarily disabling NPCs (e.g. Calixto) to keep some quests from triggering until I decide if I want to deal with them or not and so on. I don't feel "guilty" or consider any of these things cheating. BGS creates the sandbox and gives us the tools to define our experience in whichever way we decide provides the most fun. I'm OK with that.

My console usage is mainly , if not . I seem to find so many places where I get stuck!

I just do not trust myself with console commands to become very comfortable trying to add/subtract/change (targeted) anything in the game

As a general rule I'd say that using the console to give your char an advantage she/he wouldn't have without it is cheating (i.e. God Mode certainly, for example). But some times you actually need to use the console. For example, just yesterday an Unrelenting Force sent my char stuck behind a brazier when doing the boss fight in Forbidden Legend, so I used TCL to get through it so I could continue the fight.

I'm on the same page here. I make mods, so I use the commands mostly for their intended purpose, to allow a mod to be tested without having to play for hours to get the character to match. I'll provide materials, (especially for Hearthfires mods), or adjust skills on the test character, as well as coc'ing to new locations.

But I also use them for equipment swaps. I'll take away what the game gives a new character, and provide them something that suits the roleplay. In general, the value, damage, defense, or whatever matters are equivalent, so the character doesn't get an advantage, just a better fit. My normal build point for a new character is a save at the Helgen exit, so they have a selection of gear from Imperial and Stormcloak corpses in their inventory that usually gets substituted in this way.

I'd like, in some case, to replace or remove the starter spells, but I haven't found a way to remove healing and flames. Anyone know how? Player.RemoveSpell gets "Spell not found", so I suspect the starter spells may be a different ID from the identical ones learned from spell tomes (and I'm wondering why those exist, if all characters know those spells already).

Add to this

prid xxxxxmoveto player

when a follower is stuck somewhere,

resetai

when an npc's ai is obviously stuck, and you'll have the whole collection of console commands I use almost on a daily basis.

It's Pseron who posted that he used console commands when he roleplayed, isn't it? I've always been annoyed by the fact that we must start from scratch either, even if we create an old character. I have myself started playthroughs like that and used console commands to add spells or modify actor values but it always felt wrong somehow. I've also tried mods that do that and it also felt wrong. So, now, if I create an old character, I consider that he or she begins her/his life again after escaping death in Helgen. What they were before that day has no connection at all with their new life and they have literally to begin learning again. They were just not skilled at anything before that day.