As stated in the Elder scrolls Discussion forum. I write this topic for a good reason that i ask for only one thing to solve all these issues with Bethesda games. My suggestion is that it be a good possibility if Bethesda coul hire some coders/modders and game developers and form some teams to look after each an every game they have and each team can focus on one title they are commissioned to look after and patch/fix etc.

Now as much as i enjoy playing the Fallout 3 and New Vegas. I have played them through enough and experienced the game. Going back to them just gets tedious after a while when the issues come back to haunt the game. Now we all have been through this, but after so many playthroughs with getting by the issues. I just think it be best for Bethesda to hire some other devs and coders just to help take some weight off the companies shoulders and have them look after these older games and get them fixed up for the Xbox 360 and PS3 so that people can have a fair gaming experience since its very unfair that PCers can fix their games on their own and get by with the PERFECT lag and glitch free game.

Having a team dedicated to the older titles can still allow the current team to keep up with the newer and future projects. This can be something Bethesda can look into so all the flaming and complaining can finally be at cease and also for bethesda to start hard pressing themselves to stop making demanding date releases and just take as long as it takes to test the game before making release dates even a THOUGHT of coming into the picture.

All I would like to see is as I said is for Bethesda to just try and offer some coders and devs to look after these older titles and get them up to par for the 360 and PS3 to PC gaming experiences or as possibly close as to a glitch and lag free game as they can. Maybe Bethesda can look into this idea and see what they think of it. It may cost them a few more dollars, but I just state this as an opinion just so all the flaming and complaining about these older great game titles never getting fixed ever again can finally cease. Some game companies still to this day still patch older titles on 360 and PS3 cause they like to keep their fanbase happy.

I speak for everyone who is and isnt complaining as well as myself. Im not entirely suggesting you do this. But maybe dedicating some people who can and will put the time into Fallout 3 and New Vegas can patch your game up for the consoles while you guys work on future projects. May be worth thinking about and looking into. What ya say Bethesda? Make your fanbase happy and give them the best gaming experiences they can have for all the Fallout games and Elder Scrolls on consoles they rightfully deserve and make it like a sign for other gaming companies that Bethesda is taking a new turn in the video gaming industry by showing it truly cares about its fans and they still patch their older games no matter how old they are.

Make a stronger reputation for your company in the gaming market and take a stand on this. Who knows where this could put Bethesda and rank them among the top gaming companies who take pride in their games and fans. Its worth a shot if you put the thought into it. See where it will take you and if it doesnt work out, Then it wasnt meant to be. But its just an idea to get these old games into their glory they should be living up to. If its a Game of the year Edition. It should be lag and glitch free like most of them are out there.

Good luck on this Idea Bethesda and lets hope your older games get the needed and demanding they cringe for. Someone is willing to put the time and money into them. You just gotta look hard. They are out there waiting.

I'm all for Bethesda considering the people who do not buy their games on release day, and would love to think about getting patches for New Vegas, but the community already has done a lot of work.

Remember that most mods only work for a specific version of the game, and when it gets updated, they need to be reworked. now we've had a long time to work on the mods because they quit updating, and if Bethesda were to add another patch, that would invalidate their work. that's something to consider.

Like i said. It would help if they can hire some people to take the load off their shoulders and dedicate their time to these games that still need patching and touch ups, but still allow the current team to keep up with their newer releases. It shouldnt invalidate the current teams work if there is a off team that can just take care of what the current team cant do anymore. Your point does have a point. But I just say Bethesda can make a new team to look after titles that get thrown out the window yet the fanbase still demands fixes and patches to this day. Its just something they could look into and think about to control the flaming fanbase its becoming like lately.

I think they should consider it for future game instead of what they have though. have a team continuing to work on Skyrim(because Lord knows they need it) and when other titles start to come out, then they can partition their team as follows. I think it has come to the point where its too late to bring a team back into Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, or even New Vegas. With their moddability, they may see more outcry than actual praise. and anything Bethesda could do, Modders have perfected.

I think it will be too costfull for Beth, even though they are probably swiming in cash after Skyrim, they probably wont be able to hire another staff to patch the old games, even though they are buggy as hell. I wouldnt, i would rather focus on the new games, but i would first make the old games perfect, instead of hiring a whole new staff.

Skyrim does need still some serious fixing. But so does Oblivion, Fallout 3 and NV. Which is why the above states if they can make a team to get these older games fixed for the demanding fan base and get them caught up with fixes so the current team can work on skyrim. Its like having a back up team to take over for the minor stuff if you know what I mean. Every team has a minor team for reasons. It may take a little extra money. But least these games can get the needed work they demand and aquire. With rereleases, it will net them more money with a fixed game than one thats already been reviewed with bugs and errors. If the games still have a hype to this day. My theory is they should still get at least some odd work here and there by those who are willing to take the time into it. Thats why PCers have modders releasing unofficial patches so people can have a good experience. the same should be done for consoles. companies should hire some smaller teams for taking care of projects the main team cant be bothered with anymore.

Come to think of it, I still see copies of Starcraft on the shelves at Wal-Mart. why is it still there?

Because Blizzard still patched it almost up until Wings of Liberty got released? I don't know, but it helps. That game had lasting quality to it, and I have to say that more companies should adopt models like this.

I agree with that, but i still see it being less benefit for Beth, cause they probably would lose more money then they make, but im just making a wild guess. They should do it if they really care for their fans, which i doubt Howard does, after leying so much about Skyrim.

Think about it this way; If you make more changes now, that invalidates most mods. And what if modders quit working on them? you have a lot of angry PC Gamers who bought these copies for that specific reason of getting mods.

Isnt there an option to not download the patches? atleast there should be, so they can still keep their mods if they are not updated with the current patch.

Of course there is, but still, the majority would either download it, or Bethesda would have wasted the time making the patch then.

No cause it would improve the console players game, and those that dont want patches. So no it wouldnt waste their time.

This would benefit Console Players, but if these patches were mandatory on a PC version, lots would be mad. its good to make them optional, more power to the consumer.

exactly what orochi is stating. why is starcraft still on shelves. well its been fixed completely and is still released cause its making profit for blizzard cause people want games that are complete and fixed. Hence why Blizzard took ages on Diablo 3 cause they want it to be the perfect gaming experience ever without lags and glitches bugs exploits hacks game breaking mods etc. everyone gets a fair game play. People are angry only cause games are getting tossed aside and companies arent caring to fix them for their fanbase anymore. That is causing issues for comapnies and their reputation which Bethesda took a huge hit on. everyone accuses them they refuse to test their games and make sure they are fixed before releasing them. But the big issue is that when they do release it. fix it and continue to fix the game till its compleyely issue free then start on a new project. moving to a new project before a game is completely fixed just shows how the company cares about their games and fans which seems not at all. They just toss their game away. all that pride and joy and time wasted on another failure it seems to the fanbase. Thats why Modders pick up the trash they tossout. One mans junk is another mans treasure they say. If Bethesda would take Blizzards advice on fixing games. Im sure Bethesda would be where Blizzard is at today. making millions more selling completed games rather than selling a busted up game. Who really wants to buy the lamp with all the cracks in it for $20 and missing pieces when you can buy the fully restored lamp with everything on it for just $60. Big difference people. if its complete and fixed. it will get used for many years to come. but if its broken. its only got a limited use till it needs to be replaced and you are forced to buy a brand new one.

to R.J Pretty much everyone wants patches even those who never had problems. Patches are a mandatory thing for games. Thats why you see people still patching up games Like Baldur's Gate series and even games going farther back than that on PC. But wheres the console gaming at compare to that? Its making PC become the way gaming should be. Its killing consoles and their profits. They get the benefit of the modding while consoles get the kick in the [censored]. Make patches available DLC or however they can. people will buy them and companies will still make money. for those who dont want to buy them. they dont have to. But at least make the game live up to its awarded status and give console gaming a chance to catch up with PCers and give them life again cause one day console gaming is just going to be a waste of money purely. Why console when PC is getting the modding it deserves when companies ditch their games? Why not sell the game to another company or a small comoany that can code it and ptach it for them or however can console gaming get this edge they deserve. consoles are way behind now in gaming compared to PC. If companies are complaining so much about games on conosles. then its time to kill consoles off and just strictly go PC since every game can be fixed on there. Whats the point of consoling anymore if they cant have this modding edge right?

You guys have a very optimistic view of a high end software company.

Like R.J said.. it simply is not cost effective.
Simply put for an invester or a public company it is not very viable to have a continued investment in a product which no longer generates revenue.
The turnaround period for gaming software is very specific.. The first three months of release.. plus dlc release periods. In other words in this period, which would normally constitutes a year post release.. A game will still generate revenue.
Now.. Here is the thing.. If as company, one would still release patches, in other words generate costs for a product which no longer generates revenue.. ,it would not be accepted..

Like Dutch author once said: Between Dreams and Reality, strange laws govern as well as desire.

In other words what we want or reasonably should expect... is not always feasible.. However... before someone starts to blame Bethesda as a money loving company... The fault lies in our economic system.. and for Beth titles specifically with Zenimax.

Rohugh. The purpose one was in Elder Scrolls and one was in Fallout was "NOT" for cross posting. One was Elder Scroll related and one was Fallout related. Thats a difference from crossposting.

You say I DIDN'T read the ToS. I actually did. Like i said. Alot on here are just here for their rank and popularity. That you didnt realize. Crossposting and game related posts are two different things. Also ToS are pretty much the same thing on every other forum site. We all know about the no profanity no harassing no flaming and no comments against the companies that are threatening and how we cant abuse the forums rules etc etc. This was made to keep Elder Scrolls related issues in that forum and Fallout ones here. That was the purpose of the two threads. I play both series of titles. So I wanted to keep them in their proper discussion.

Another issue is that as i said. Alot dont disagree on the topic like Tengen was doing on the Elder Scrolls Topic. I didnt make an account to flame. But it seems the moderator Rohugh is making it look that way and im being pointed as the bad guy. so much for a first day on here. New guys always seem to get the discredit compared to the popularity of those with 50000 posts and such. Sad how forums are becoming. if you aint popular. wheres your place? some moderators even abuse their powers. Just my two cents.

This was to be a discussion about an idea companies can think about looking into to give consoles the edge PC gaming has today. Its killing console gaming for that reason. Profits are down by a %age which i will not explain due to it not being accurate as it changes daily. But PC gaming is improving thanks to modders taking over on games companies move on from. You can buy a completely broken game on PC only to have it patched to perfectional levels with mods which are constantly on the clock being updated and worked on to work together with other modders work too. Thats the benefit of PC. So where is gaming going in the 10, 20 years now? Itll be just PC and maybe smart phones in that matter. Those are easily modded and patched technology.

Consoles are an obsolete way to make games nowdays from what all the flaming and comaplining is about. This is what my discussion was all about people. Maybe its time for companies to look into this edge and find a way to give consolers a much more perfect and issue free experience and try to implement a way to make it work and get these games that can be patched where they should be. nothing can be done about the console games of PS1 and before. but with the capability of the PS3, Im sure its possibe to patch even the DLC games of old days too with releases of fixes that can cost a small amount of $$$. Look at starcraft and Baldur's Gate and such people. When games are patched and fixed, it raises more popularity and fanbase willing to play these great experiences with no issues at all and still replay the game again and again.

Like i said again. No one is going to buy the lamp with cracks and missing pieces for $20 over the lamp that has been restored and is on for $60. Thats the difference. People will pay more for the better lamp cause it will last longer and works better and can be used for many years to come. But if it breaks, you go out and get a new one. Why keep the old one or buy an old one and have it waste away or you only use it for 2 hours till you toss it away cause its got issues? Thats where this discussion is getting at. Alot will understand that. But if those cant properly disagree to this. theyre just getting into a conversation which is making the main poster look bad.

If thats what you wanted to read Rohugh. That was the reason for the post in here and in the elder scrolls. It keeps the type of game discussion in its proper forum. I hope this can now solve any issues people are experiencing with this very detailed discussion. modding or at least hiring another team to fix a game is the way to go these days for gaming. If PC has the edge, consoles need to start researching on that edge and find a way for them to implement that edge or get another team to work on their titles they have no time for anymore than still can be patched and issues will be solved and flamings and complaints will start to cease. goive the consolers this edge already. The time is now otherwise console gaming is going to die when these modders are making more money then the comapnies making the games themselves are. Its not fair even to the companies anymore being cut out of profit that should be initially theirs for these modders working on games that aint theirs at all. Makes sense right people?

Exactly Thorgal. Alot are blaming Bethesda being a money guzzling company. What it really is, is maybe the technology they have isnt up to date for their console making demands and they only make so little to work with whatever they got to release a game. The best they can do is test and make sure they release a game that wont have game playing issues before they even think about talking of a release date. Thats the big failure companies seem to do lately for so many years. They expect so much with so little time that instead of planning and making a game and doing as much possible work on it before thinking of its release. They should be doing what they can an using their funds to make what resources they need and then code the game. Keep coding it till it works. If you cant perfect it, dont release it. Simple as that. Wait for better technology to come out which is what bethesda shouldve done before even making morrowind on the original xbox. Games like that are actaully needing serious technology and serious funds and memory etc to even make such a game a reality. Which is why I discuss about remakes of these games when the right technology to fully run them issue free comes out.

What we have today can run them in a way, but its like playing say medieval total war 2 on a windows 98 computer. Its just not fully compatable yet. put the title aside and wait for the right gaming techonolgy and products to make it such a possibility for games to run without these issues "OR" Bethesda could make a whole new engine for these games new and old and rid the old engine for good and test play just the engine on the consoles and PCs and see how capable it is and fix what issues it has before making a game with it.

Taking the time to look into such matters is what console companies and game makers need to look at. This will really help them with profits and reputation with games rather than to just release something so soon to find out the console or PC is choking on it. Why try to fit the square in the circle people? No matter how much you force it in. You will just end up breaking the whole thing completely.

This discussion is about what companies who make console games SHOULD look into before making such drastically big game releases and relaize what technology they are working with. No more releasing such big platform memory games on machines that cant even capably run the game fully. Maybe when PS4 and Xbox 720 come out games like morrowind Oblivion Skyrim Fallout 3 and NV and many other games related to these will finally have the much needed resources and memory to work such games without one single issue causing game play problems.

With such detail these games have and like every box and crate has stored inside them, that is so much memory and processing the game must do and still to this day we dont have such consoles to hold these games at its best yet. "THATS WHAT PC IS FOR" If you are going to make such big games like this. Keep them on PC till the consoles can catch up in terms of power rather than choke them on such consoles that still are in the developement stages of upgrading.

Makes a whole lot of sense when you think about it. This is exactly whats going on with game companies. Maybe its time to just make things for the proper platform its should be made on and stop wasting money on games that just cant fit or work on consoles and save that money to projects better spent on and all this comaplining and profit losing will cease for everyone. Understand where games should and should not work before releasing them onto any platform and know which platform has the needs and resources they already have and make it on there instead.

This is why companies are mostly sticking to PC lately cause PC has pretty much the capabilities to run ANYTHING!!!

A lot has changed in the videogame market.. and that was not the point I was trying to make.

1. Games are more likely to generate errors during release because: They are designed for multiple platforms, their build is more extensive and prown to errors than let's say " starcraft" etc..
2. Software companies are " forgiven" and are " allowed" to put out products which might generate errors for a number of gamers.
3. Even if one sees FO3, Skyrim. FO:NV, Oblivion etc... as buggy games they are perfectly stable and playable for the majority of gamers.
4. Therefore patching post the revenue window... would, cost wise, be commercially stupid..

Complexity of code and again cost efficiency are also a reason games (not specific to Bethesda) are released as is.. In other words if the QA team deems a game to be playable for the general consumer than it will be released...

Did you even read my comment? Dude what the hell are you talking about modding? i did not say consoles should mod, and dude they cant kill off consoles, cause that would completely ruin it for people that bought it and like it, you are asking for poeple to take down a huge money maker just to make PC superior? WTF?
A modding edge wouldnt be that important to console players if they bought it for console, else they can just buy it for pc if they really care that much, modding aint whats important about a game.

Good idea but it won't happen.. Every game has its problems and these are games which only have problems here and there, its not like they are un playable. Plus Bethesesda is a business and it all costs money.. Not to mention i would just rather them focus all their attention on Fallout 4.

Apparently R.J. you havent read what anyone was saying on here. Read what even Thorgal and Orochi said.

Moding is a HUGE step in PC gaming and people have made companies through it making profits which couldve been made to these companies which dont put effort in their games anymore. Thats why they are willing to. Take a good look at PC gaming lately and you will realize.

Who cares who spent what all these years on consoles. Every company or at least the majority of them knew what they were getting into. Consoles wont be around forever with the way computers and smart phones are going. Technology changes along with gaming as well. You can choose to ignore that all you want. The majority of players are turning to PCs and sales on PCs continue to soar over console gaming. They may make millions on consoles. But PCs will always make the multi millions.

With the way gaming is going on PC. Consoles are way behind on the market which alot dont realize. Like you for example. If you dont understand what the topic is about, dont post in it then. If you cant realize whats going on with why people are complaining about all these issues and problems on console gaming. Take what I stated above and read it well before you make assumptions on things you dont even know about. I have been gaming since atari. I have seen whose really around here to understand gaming and whose really just here to be a part of the show.

Modding is the turn of the century my friend. If companies cant put effort and fix up their games like people and fans demand them to. Their best bet is to just pack it up and start selling car parts then. They never did have what it takes to make a gaming company. Look at how many years games went back to the bargain bin. Or games that been re-released over how many times but yet still the same results keep coming back. Look at Final Fantasy 4. Completely remastered and redone. Now sales soar to points squarenix never even believed theyd get when the game first came out in the early 90s.

Take a look at every PC game out there. Everyone of them have been modded to the point they are potential bug free games. All these modders are what game companies should be doing. constantly working on improving games old and new regardless. constantly updating and making the game the best experience possible with no flaws. Why should game companies keep taking such rap and crap year after year and keep having flaming haters yak about bugs and issues. It goes nowhere. whose relaly taking the hit. The company. If they dont care about their games anymore. Why make them in the first place right.

Modding or at least putting alot more effort into their games and patching them or hiring a third party or a minor team to take over for past projects are the way to go these days. Maybe you should look into whats going on and get off the chair more often and research whats been going on for the past 10 years with the way gaming is becoming. Companies could sell their past titles off they refuse to even put a snitch of effort back into and let many others who are willing to fix such masterpieces and benefit the side of fans who are sick of broken and poor gameplay releases and give the companies something to think about. PC will always and one day will kill gaming consoles off because consoles will always lack what PC has. Memory and engine issues.

PC is way above the food chain these days. I see less and less game releases compared to whats releasing on the PC. Most what gets released on a PC has a much better game value and play from consoles and anyone will agree with me that is a PC player. My discussion is not about what you are saying? Its about why people are so ignorant about whats been going on with console games and why companies wont do anything really about it anymore but let their games rot in peace and move on to something else. Its just showing how careless companies are starting to become with their fans and the games they make. They just care for the money. It shouldnt be about the money anymore. People had enough about money. People want what they want. They want games to have as close to no issues at all. Or have the company move on to something they can take pride in. Like selling tickets for an E3 competition.

There is many reasons why some companies are even allowing third party teams to have such authorities on games espeially on PC because they do what others cant. At least finish something they put work into. Moding will always and those who are willing to patch games will always come out on top. Many Third party teams are being given jobs to game companies cause they know how to code better and know what people want. They dont care about money. They care about people and their gameplays. To hell with money. money is not even worth the paper its printed on anymore. Times change friend. Its time for the future of gaming and getting things striaght and getting the fanbase what they really want rather than ignoring it.

As others have stated, the window for a game to actually generate revenue is about one year. I would argue that it is actually less, particularly for console games.

PC gamers can buy games on Steam, thus there is a very small resale market for used PC games. Console gamers still buy hard copies, and many then go on to resell them to friends or stores that specialize in selling used games. Developers take in zero revenue when a game is sold used--and that is how the vast majority of people buy older games for consoles. I'm sure that if developers continued to generate revenue from older games, they would be quite interested in continuing to support them with software patches and updates.

That has actually proven to be true. Look at the latest platforms for gaming and software development--iOS and Android. iOS developers continually support older applications because they continue to generate revenue from them. Users can't resell the used app, so anyone who wants it needs to buy it, regardless of how old it is. Android developers typically generate much less revenue, and as a result, their applications are updated less frequently or just abandoned entirely.

Companies cannot do anything without a revenue stream. It's not greed, it's reality. Would you go to work without being paid for it? Certainly not, but that's what is being asked of Bethesda and other console game developers. These companies must justify expenditures to investors, and adding expenses for games that no longer make money, simply will not fly.

When the day comes--and it will come--that console games are distributed digitally (thus negating the used game aftermarket) older games will be able to continually generate revenue. As such, it will be necessary for developers to continue to patch and update those games to ensure playability and commercial viability. You'll eventually get what you're asking for, but not necessarily in the way you're expecting.

Consoles are not gonna just wither out and be useless, not yet. They are effective, and Sony has made to much to just give up. Say wwhatever [censored] u are gonna say, but i disagree and thats final

Well than they should just make a patch only for consoles to fix this damn lags..

Damn, FREAKING; LAAAGS!!!