About dying near the fake alyeid door is actually a killbox. It should be even higher above the ground then, because you are meant to die if you hit the ground when you fall down there.

I must say that I don't like that kind of deathtrap. I'd understand it if you were actually falling a noticable distance, but you're not - you can step on that place without falling, just a normal jump that would normally not even do any damage. The game effect is that it forces a reload, since nobody expects that place to be deadly. I did expect traps here, but not absolutely invisible ones you have absolutely no chance of surviving.

But you can't get up from there if you fall down and there's nothing to do there either. And if you don't use lights or torches it's just all black down there. But I can add spikes on the ground there so you have a better reason to die.

Sorry about this, but I'm having an issue with your mod, I can start a new game with it loaded but then I CDT if I try to load a save from that new game and I CDT if I try to load it fresh with an existing save. I have spent the best part of three days going through my mods one by one to find the culprit, I don't know if it's conflicting with another mod I have but it's definitely something to do with this one.

Any ideas? I really want to use your mod.

My LO if it helps:

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.2]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm04  CLS-ClassyClothes.esm05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.64]06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b1]08  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]09  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]0A  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm0B  Better Cities Resources.esm0C  CLS-Craftybits.esm0D  Toaster Says Share v3.esm0E  HorseCombatMaster.esm0F  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]10  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp11  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]12  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]13  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.2]++  All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp  [Version 0.9.2]14  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.2]15  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp16  aaaBorsBedrolls.esp++  cidnothump.esp17  MM_TextLocks.esp18  VHBloodlines 1.2.esp  [Version 1.4]19  Living Economy.esp1A  Living Economy - Items.esp1B  Cutthroat Merchants.esp1C  Crowded Roads.esp  [Version 2.0]1D  DLCHorseArmor.esp1E  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1F  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.11]20  C&C&EQR.esp21  DLCOrrery.esp22  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]23  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]24  C&C&EQR - SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 0.1]25  DLCVileLair.esp26  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]27  SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp  [Version 1.11]28  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp29  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2A  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]2B  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.11]++  CLS-ClassyClothesFactions.esp2C  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.4]2D  Thieves Arsenal.esp2E  Extinguish the Lights.esp++  Thieves Arsenal - Extinguish the Lights Patch.esp2F  HB Elven Sunbreaker Shortsword.esp30  DLCThievesDen.esp31  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]32  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]33  SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.2]34  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.63]35  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.64]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]36  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp37  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]38  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]39  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp3A  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3B  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]3C  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3D  C&C&EQR - OOO.esp  [Version 0.1]3E  C&C&EQR - MMM.esp  [Version 0.1]3F  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]40  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]41  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]42  CurseOfHircine.esp43  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b1]44  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b1]45  Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp  [Version 3.7b1]46  Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp  [Version 3.7b1]47  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b1]48  Mart's Monster Mod - Curse of Hircine.esp  [Version 3.7b1]49  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b1]4A  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b1]4B  Mart's Monster Mod - Durzog Addon.esp  [Version 0.10]++  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.39c]4C  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]4D  TamrielTravellersItemsnpc.esp  [Version 1.39c]4E  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]4F  TamrielTravellersItemsVendor.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]50  TIE In.esp  [Version 1.07]++  TIE In - Cobl.esp  [Version 1.07]51  TIE In - FCOM Convergence.esp  [Version 1.07]++  TIE In - RealSwords.esp  [Version 1.07]++  TIE In - MMM Craft.esp  [Version 1.07]++  PersuasionOverhaul_MMM.esp  [Version 1.2]++  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 1.2]52  BrighterTorches_v1.2.esp53  Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp54  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp55  Servant of the Dawn.esp56  The Ayleid Steps.esp57  Cyrodill Travel Services.esp  [Version 1.1]58  DLCFrostcrag.esp59  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]5A  SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp  [Version 1.2]5B  Knights.esp5C  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  TIE In - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]++  KotN Wayshrine Fix.esp5D  The Lost Spires.esp5E  TOTF.esp5F  Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp60  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b1]61  xuldarkforest.esp62  xulStendarrValley.esp63  xulTheHeath.esp64  MMMMWL-TheHeath patch.esp65  XulEntiusGorge.esp66  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp67  LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp68  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp69  xulChorrolHinterland.esp6A  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp6B  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp6C  LostSpires-BravilBarrowfields patch.esp6D  xulLushWoodlands.esp6E  xulAncientYews.esp6F  xulAncientRedwoods.esp70  xulCloudtopMountains.esp71  xulArriusCreek.esp72  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]73  xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp74  MMMMWL-RollingHills patch.esp75  xulPantherRiver.esp76  xulRiverEthe.esp77  xulImperialIsle.esp78  VeronaHouseBloodlines-UL patches Merged.esp79  Moriarcis.esp7A  LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp7B  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp++  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp7C  BrewHouse.esp7D  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp7E  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]7F  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]80  RenCorpseMod.esp81  CLS-Craftybits.esp82  M.O.E. - Main Quest Delayer.esp  [Version with]83  Cyrodiil Border Regions 1.2.esp84  RealHungerv1.4.esp85  RealisticFatigue.esp86  RealSleepExtended.esp87  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.5EV-D]88  MidasSpells.esp89  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.87]++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.87]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.82]++  SM_COBL.esp++  SM_AbsorbRestoration.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_EnableCharmChameleon.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_EnableRestoreEnchanting.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_NoPoisonLevitationEffects.esp  [Version 0.70]8A  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_VanillaSpells.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_UnlockSpells.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_NoSpellLights.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]8B  Poison Maker v1.08.esp8C  Potion Mixer.esp8D  Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp8E  Poison Combiner.esp8F  Essence Extracter.esp90  Enchantment Enhanced.esp91  StealthOverhaul.esp92  Stealth Entrances v1.esp93  RenGuardOverhaul.esp94  Combat Fumbling.esp  [Version 06]95  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp++  SM_DeadlyReflex.esp  [Version 0.86]96  Deadly Reflex Bow Sway.esp97  CLS-OldFriends-OBSE.esp98  Oblivion XP.esp  [Version 3.0.1]99  Oblivion XP - Knights.esp  [Version 1.0]9A  Oblivion XP - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 1.0]9B  Oblivion XP - DLCOrrery.esp  [Version 1.0]9C  Oblivion XP - DLCMehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.0]9D  Oblivion XP - DLCThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.0]9E  Oblivion XP - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 1.0]9F  immersive_caves_auto.espA0  Dark Dungeons.espA1  MotionBlur.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b1]A2  _Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp++  bgBalancingEVNoSIVersion_Core_still_required.esp  [Version 10.5DV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalClasses.esp  [Version 9.0EV-U]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, TNR Merge.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]A3  bgBalancingOptionalNPCDiversityKvatchRebuilt, for Wrye Bash.esp  [Version 9.0EV-D]A4  Toaster Says Share Faction Recruitment.esp++  bgBalancingEVOptionalMoreEyes.esp  [Version 10]A5  Immersive Combat Music.esp  [Version 1.00]A6  Duke Patricks - Semi Unlimited Rings And Amulets.espA7  Big Business.espA8  DS Less Predictable Respawn.esp  [Version 1.1]A9  personality_idles4.espAA  JumpModifier.espAB  Deadly Reflex - Breathing Motion & Head Bobbing.espAC  Bashed Patch, raven.espAD  Streamline 3.1.esp

I've removed your mod from my list but I have tried it in a few different places.

I'm sorry but I have no idea at all what in that list could cause my mod to CTD a new game xD I place almost entirely unmodded (I really don't play ever actually, only test my mod, so no reason for many mods)

Hi GrandDukeAdense.
I'm afraid my expressions may be rude or hard to read, because I'm not so good at English. But please, please be patient.

This MOD is amazing !
But I did CTD in Crypt, too.

But, as a result of having performed several times of tests, I understood a cause.
CTD did not occur by deleting aedOronGhostRef of AEDFortCrypt Cell.

and, I recommend that I refer to the following URL and perform 'Mod cleaning' and 'Undelete and Disable References'
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Tes4View

I hope this helps you.

It's certainly a marvel of design... but really lacking in enemies. And what's up with the Imperial soldiers? How did they get down there? Shouldn't there be a way to rescue them?

Also, there's an ayleid spiral stairway that leads down, and down, and down... to nothing. Literally - the bottom is open to undeveloped areas. It should probably be blocked off with a rockfall or something.

the stairway leads to a hole where you can see lava, but you can't get through...

In case you didn't know, I havn't been able to mod for a long time, so the 1.2 release has not been done by me! BUT (yes, a but:P) all the bugs and annoying stuff that should have been fixed in 1.2 have been done by this guy: David Brasher!!

So you can now download the new fully functional and bugless version here: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27520

Hope you enjoy it! (And don't forget to thank brasher for making the final touch to this mod)

Thanks. I did download and install your first version, but ended up uninstalling, waiting for the updated. I have kept the uninstalled OMOD in OBMM though to remind me of the mod

thanks for making such a great mod! That was easily the most unique, memorable dungeon crawl I've ever done. I especially love how cobbled together everything is.

Will the portal always be there though? (it's just a little nuisance for my thief character, who lives right next to it)

yep, the portal will always be there! :/ sorry for that!

As GrandDukeAdense said; the portal remains.
BUT you can just disable the mod after completing it (and pretend that it disappeared after your character completed the quest. )

That's the way to do it!!

EDIT: after David Brasher's edits to the mod,, it should be replayable..!

That's true.
Therefore Disable ONLY whenever you choose not to explore it anymore. (I would say primarily in cases where you want that area cleared - the issue raised here - or to cut down on the number of mods installed - there is an upper limit.)

version 1.4 by David Brasher is out now, bringing the dungeon to 32 levels and even more stuff and quests do!!!

I've been going through this the past couple of days. AWESOME job!

Good to hear!!

hey this mod is great fun and it scared the hell out of me twice. i have one problem with it tho. When i activate this mod i can't pick up Varla stones anymore anywhere. When i deactivated the .esp it all was fine again.

Hm, text to David Brasher! He' can probably check it out!

EDIT: Maybe it's called PM

Just wanted to confirm the problem Challenge reported. I am unable to pick up the Varla stone in Arcathor Barracks. I will PM David Brasher, but thought my confirmation here might prove helpful to others.

This is my second attempt to play through this mod (first time with v1.0), and the word Epic does indeed seem appropriate. It is epic in size, but even more impressive is your innovative, original, and unexpected use of resources for its construction. Even though I wasn't able to complete this dungeon, I came away feeling like I had experienced a true diamond in the rough. I was extremely pleased when I found you were allowing David Brasher to continue work on it. He seems to be doing a fine job of polishing this beauty to the luster it deserves, and I've no doubt he will be able to deal with the Varla stone issue.

My wood elf will be off making pin cushions of varlets elsewhere until Brasher has a chance to look into the problem, but she is anxious to explore this gem to its conclusion. When she does, I'll return to sing the praises of this remarkable achievement.

Hi David,

Thanks for the prompt reply. You know.....after leaving my post on Adense thread (on Bethesda's mod forum), PMing you here, and going to bed.........I lay there unable to sleep as I realized I had jumped to a potentially invalid conclusion. I assumed that just because two separate users were experiencing the the same problem, issues on our end could be ruled out. I found myself thinking about my inability to advance in another mod despite much effort and many hours of play (the 3rd dungeon of Series 2 in NNWs and Lady Rowenas Ayleiden Ruins Expanded). IIRC that mod uses Varla stones as keys at times. Could the problem lie with it instead? Or be a result of a conflict that arises only when both are installed in the same game? Or some other unresolved mod conflicts in my specific game?

I vowed again to become more proficient at using TES4Edit so I could start tracking down the source of problems myself. Unfortunately I've made this vow many times over, only to get caught up in the game play and leave it to others.

In answer to your questions:

I'm using v1.4

The stone I refer to was called a varla stone in game and was located in the Arcathor Barracks. I made a note of this at the time it occurred. I knocked it off the pedestal with an arrow, then was unable to pick it up. I went back to a save, tried again and got the same result. I didn't attempt to manipulate it with z, so can't report on that.

A forum member named Challenge was the first to report the "problem". Here is his/her post: "hey this mod is great fun and it scared the hell out of me twice. i have one problem with it tho. When i activate this mod i can't pick up Varla stones anymore anywhere. When i deactivated the .esp it all was fine again." You can PM him/her on Bethesda's mod forum (http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=966837&st=60).

As to whether I run other mods that alter the nature of varla stones or Ayleid ruins..........beats me......wouldn't be surprised in that I'm a big fan of Ayleid ruins and delving therein. But my growing yet still limited skills leave me unable to easily determine nature alteration.

In conclusion, I offer my sincere apology for having jumped to an insupportable conclusion. I again thank you for your thoughtful, and much appreciated attentions to Epic left us by Adense.

I will be returning to his thread to update my original statements there. It would be a very sad state of affairs should my faulty reasoning scare people away from what is becoming, and may already be a dungeon crawl not to be missed. I'm also going to include your response to my PM. I hope you don't mind. I consider it a fine example of a responsible and professional modder's concern for the users of their work. Actually, I think I'll just cut and paste this whole thing. My laziness acts as a nice counter balance to my charming demeanor.

I finished it find myself wanting to do a fresh reload of it. This is one of the few quest mods I've ever wanted to replay.

Good news for Epic enthusiasts.




Hi David,

You are the one who deserves the thanks. For your prompt responses and obvious concern. For your professional handling and squashing of the bug. For your continued work on this EPIC.

Best regards,
garx the bear

Good that the bug was fixed!