DISCLAIMER: Sorry, but this thread ended up being a lot about their survival in the cold.

I was thinking that the options for Argonian's "hair", I guess you could call it, were a little disappointing in Oblivion, and thought that some variety would be cool.

My idea is that a feathered-crest that runs from midway down their snout to the back of their head, like a colorful mowhawk (with adjustable color, angle, and length) would look awesome. Perhaps some Argonians that you meet could look a little more bird-like (nothing extreme, they'd be anatomically the same) in general, having feathered patches on their calves, elbows, the tops of their wrists, and along their spines, going down their tails.

Other ideas?

No. I'd rather they go back to looking a little bit more lizard-like.

I'd like to see some that are much more lizard-like as-well. It's a wider-variety, ranging from swamp-lizards, to almost bird-like that I'd really like to see.

Since when are Argonian's Birds?

There are bird-like reptiles.

I've read the entire Argonian Compendium, there is no traces of them being mentioned of ever appearing bird-like. For that reason alone, I completely reject your idea.


But Argonians aren't one of them, such a move would spit in the face of the lore of Argonians.

Agreed. I've never read the Compendium, but I don't think Bethesda should do anything drastic that would change the lore like that.

Not even a http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071110043015/soulcalibur/images/e/eb/Sc3-lizardman-01.jpg http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090208004136/soulcalibur/images/3/3e/Concept29LIZARDMANSCIII.jpg?

Edit: Someone please tell me the links work?

I'm not saying that they should turn Argonians into birds! I'm talking about small patches of feathers, nothing big. Jesus, the anatomy of their legs changed completely from Morrowind to Oblivion, and I don't see how my idea could mess up lore any worse than that.

Also, I'm sure there are inconsistencies with lore all the time in production of a new game. I'm not saying that the information in the Compendium can just be completely ignored or scrapped, only that imagination, a core element of RPGs, permits it to be flexible.

hmm I don't think I saw what you were trying to show me with that link lol... was just like a blog lookin place

By the way can you maybe provide a link of any feathered lizard? I've never seen one... in fact the only thing close to that I've ever heard about was archaeopteryx, and there is debate over whether or not it was a lizard

Argonians, by description in the Argonian Compendium, range from practically crocodilian all the way up to practically humans. Oblivion's Argonians were obviously closer to the "Human" side of things than their Morrowind counterparts.

Argonians also share some characteristics with amphibians -- namely the toad.

In all cases - they are water-based reptile-likes and do NOT EVER have feathers.

But there are not bird-like Argonians.

I don't know about bird-like features, but some more 'hair' styles for sure. There were what? 4 or 5 in Oblivion? Give me at least 12 in Skyrim.

more "hair/horns" sure, but not feathers :shakehead:

Well, if a group of such water-based reptiles were to live in the snowy north long enough (clearly they can, I don't think Beth would remove them from the game), could they not begin to adapt? Many species of small birds can live in arctic climates because of a furnace metabolism, and hyper-insulating feathers (once again, I'm not saying that Argonians are birds).

If the next game starts even a few decades after Oblivion, and also taking fantasy into account here, I don't see how it could be lore-breaking to have a few Argonians with feathered patches along heat-receptive places (head, feet, hands, back, ect.).

+1 for feathers.

Well, it is TES, and anythings possible. But its not like argonian are gonna be walking around naked, just get some fur clothing. (which they'd probably hate looking anything like a Khajiit)

Honestly, I'm starting to be concerned with the claim that they're cold-blooded in Lore. If that's true, then they can't generate their own body-heat, and any kind of insulation, whether it be fur-clothing or feathered patches, wouldn't do them any good anyway (if there's no heat being generated to keep in, then there's no point in insulating).

This is a conundrum.

I don't think feathers would suit them. I loved the past Argonians. Anything similar to the past is what I hope for lol. However, an improvement I would like to see is in the facegen, I want more control over their mouth's. If I remember right, when I was reading 'The Argonian Account', it described some of the Argonians as almost toad-like faces, and some more snake-like. Could be thinking of something else though. I would also like to see different scale shapes. Diamond shaped, to more circle, you know, just different shapes of scales. I used to have a Chinese water dragon, which I loved, and one of my friends had... idk, I think it was a gecko? But there was a huge difference in their scales, if I remember right. but that was like 10 years ago lol.

It is already documented that stock Argonians from Black Marsh can survive in Skyrim

As to how they deal with it:

"You get used to the cold. Got a good set of fur boots to keep my feet warm. Give a Nord a good thumping to keep the blood flowing, khah-khah-khah." -- Right-Wind

It's pretty much agreed upon that Argonians are NOT fully cold-blooded. Neither are many animals on earth, most notably the great white shark


Stop Reading the Pocket Guide to the Empire. It's lore in the sense that it is well-documented as being full of Imperial Propaganda.

Dammit, feathered-crests would look badass and make sense!! I'd honestly like to continue this convo, but I've got a lot a thick final-exam-review to do for physics. The news of Skyrim has made it hard to get anything done, lol.

I'll check up on this topic and keep arguing for feathers tomorrow. Goodnight, gamesas forums.

I have no idea how argonians will be surviving in skyrim without some kind of heating mechanisms or magic. Maybe they will be always indoors or something. I suppose gamesas could create a new, more mammalian, Skyrim-specific breed, and justify their existence that way.

Never cared for argonians much anyway, so seeing them gone wouldn't bother me so much. Now Khajiit on the other hand...

edit: oops I completely ignored the fact that this thread was about appearances! (my bad), anyway I think argonians should be less humanoid than they were in oblivion, and more vicious looking

To take from another thread where I posted on the matter:

"Cephorus concentrated his army on the war in High Rock, while his brother Magnus, King of Lilmoth, brought his Argonian troops through loyal Morrowind and into Skyrim to fight in Potema's home province. The reptilian troops fought well in the summer months, but during the winter, they retired south to regroup and attack again when the weather was warm. At this stalemate, the War lasted out two more years." - The Wolf Queen, Book Seven

They may not have been able to do great during Winter, but they can survive.

BlueDev
Evil Overlord
Reged: 02/12/01
Posts: 659
Re: Do Argonians lay eggs? [Re: Vireyar]
#1948270 - 11/10/03 11:04 AM


Quote:
Or because an Argonian says that he didn't hatch yesterday ... *cough* Just a figure of speech, I suppose.
Which is why I said "Perhaps it is both, as necessity demands."

Never underestimate the adaptability of Argonians, or, more specifically, the power of the Hist to allow Argonians to adapt.

I wouldn't expect to hear an Argonian born in Skyrim (or on Solstheim, for that matter) mention being hatched. Nor would I expect to hear more transient Argonians (say, members of a small, nomadic tribe) speak about laying eggs. However, in warmer climates, in places with established, stable, and permanent communities, you would likely see a great number of eggs.

This means that not only can Argonians live in Skyrim, but can be born there.

Also note my earlier post of a quote from Right-Wind, who lived in Bruma perfectly fine (Skyrim is pretty much in-par with Bruma as far as coldness, a bit colder. It warms up after you leave the mountains).

While I appreciate your very open mind with the feathers idea, I think it's better to master the current lizard-people concept. I would also not care visually for the feathers.

Lizards in cages belong they do, nasty cold-blooded swimmers they are. Or perhaps dressed in matching slave outfits to serve prey and skooma to we, the only true beast people of Skyrim (well Nords with hangovers too).