I would like to see more differences between both melee and unarmed, I do not want to see them merged.

So true. I was introduced by F3, but I came to enjoy each Fallout (Save BoS which everyone says is not worth a penny on the dollar) from 1 to New Vegas, but some of the things people keep saying they want are just plain out rageous, and pretty soon Fallout will revert into a FPS with no third person view, and 10-12 linear levels.

It'll become a standard FPS :sadvaultboy:

Its not true at all and over exaggerating things doesnt back up your point in the slightest.

I dunno if they need to be merged, or if they just need to re-think some of the perk requirements, but as has been said it's bloody annoying the way you essentially have to do up both if you want to unlock the full potential of either.

As I recall (reading), with Oblivion's release came the shock (or surprise) for Bethesda that players actually chose to play the game in third person at all. I was one of those. I just naturally shifted into far TPP mode for all but the most cramped environs. With FO: New Vegas they [Obsidian and/or Bethesda?] cut the leash shorter than ever and the camera barely shows the PC below the hip! The first mod I sought out was one to repair that damage.

Yes, it's pretty stupid that they aren't. If you want the most beneficial perks you HAVE to level both of them. The first time I played NV I played as an unarmed build. But I couldn't get half the beneficial perks because I didn't level melee too. WTF was the point?

None of the games in this series were ever about power builders looking to nab the best perks... If anything there was supposed to be a tough choice between any of them, and you were only supposed to get a couple at best. <_<

The game played different with various perks, and that added to the variable replay... having all the "best" perks just muddied the effects that any had on the game, and reduced the replay value. :shrug:

(Same way for skills. Fallout had at least three ways to solve anything, because the various builds had different strengths and shortcomings.)

Nonononononononononononono.

Try using a baseball bat.
Then try using knuckledusters.
They are completely different weapons, therefore there are different ways to use each one.
No merge.

Indeed... and try using a sledgehammer, then a fencing foil... There should be weapon perks for anything but a club (and still one for clubs).

Try using a baseball bat.
Then try using a knife.
They are completely different weapons, therefore there are different ways to use each one.

Should we split melee up into multiple weapon categories?

No. Unless they introduce another skill. The last thing we need is a dumbed down Fallout system.

Merge the skills? No. Get rid of the ridiculous Perk requirements so that either can be used? Yes.

Fallout never had split categories (true to it's root ~sort-of, it was a generic catch-all even then).
How about the melee skill (as it is) but with perks that "perk" up the bonus for a given weapon (or at least weapon class).
*This could work for firearms too.

***I should mention that I am actually not too keen on this idea, but it could work within the existing framework of the game.

Dunno what game you're playing, but by New Vegas it's waaaaay too late for that argument. Go look at the skills list for Fallout and get back to me on what your Big Guns, Doctor, Throwing, Steal, Traps, and Gambling skills are.



Sure it did. Doctor/First Aid. Melee/Unarmed. (I still maintain they're both basically get-in-your-face-and-bash, myself) Steal/Sneak. And they're merging the daylights out of'em like they've been doing since the beginning.

I'm in the rare minority of old-school fans when I say that I found the disappearance of Big Guns to actually be decent. It doesn't make total sense, not at all, but to me it feels like a more even distribution for the weapons.

That being said, no way in hell should Melee and Unarmed be merged. One of the many things that New Vegas does better than Fallout 3 is that it enforces specialization. If I want to make an expert, hand-to-hand martial artist by tagging Unarmed as my main combat skill, then I expect not to be proficient with things like Fire Axes or Super Sledges.

Any good RPG throughout history has had rules and structure. If we start chipping away at the structure, then the whole damn thing is going to collapse on itself in the form of a mediocre shooter that only pretends to be an RPG.

I agree, I use unarmed far more than melee.

How is a Ballistic Fist Unarmed? Or a Power Fist? Or Bladed Gauntlet? Or Brass Knuckles? That is something I never understood. If you have something in your hand and you hit someone with it, you are hitting them with a weapon, and hence you are Armed.

Unarmed should be just that, Bare Fists and Feet (well feet shod with shoes).

However, most Martial Arts disciplines also have Armed and Unarmed components, but they are still for Hand to Hand combat. These two skills could be combined logically into Hand to Hand.

Yes, but what I meant was... Split categories like Pistol, Rifle, Laser Pistol, Plasma Rifle, Sword, Hammer, Axe, (or even just Knives). It had general catch all skills for small gun, big gun, thrown, melee, energy...

This is true, and I am actually for merging the two skills. However, if we can merge unarmed and melee, since you are armed in both, I would think that guns/energy guns could be merged as well. Whats the difference between pulling the trigger on an assault carbine and doing the same on a laser rifle? The only real difference is reloading the gun, but after awhile, we do start to see fewer and fewer total skill choices, and less customization. If there were initially more skills, like 20, I don't think people would be so against merging unarmed and melee.

I believe guns and energy weapons should be split into multiple logical groups that would enforce specialization, and generate more skills. For instance, guns could be divided into Pistols, Rifles, and Big Guns, energy weapons could be the same. The limitations to doing this now is the absurd difference in damage guns do. At higher levels pistols like the 9mm become useless and people are funneled into using the strongest weapons, AM, Marksman Carbine, etc. If pistols were a viable weapon through out the game, and there were at least a nice big handful to choose from, then it could be it's own skill. Right now though when you pick the Guns skill, you simply graduate through all guns in the game until you reach the best one. I don't mind that some weapons are stronger then others, but it's pointless to make half of the weapons in the game become obsolete at higher levels.

It would be nice if, using the same skills I just made up in the paragraph above, you made a pistol character and you gradually went from 9mm -> 10mm -> 12.7mm -> etc. Instead of making the final pistol you get ten times more powerful than the first you started with, it could instead be perhaps twice as strong. Instead of enemies getting more and more health and armor to defend against our billions of damage, only a slight increase would be needed for enemies to remain decently tough. Doing this makes even the starting gun somewhat viable to use, yet not as effective. Maybe I like to use the 9mm. I should be able to use it if I want, not be pushed into picking up whats the strongest because the gun I like cannot even hurt enemies at higher levels.

I would sayno simply because its is entirely different to know how to fight with a sword as opposed to your fists.

wearing a ballistic fist or even a powerfist for that matter hardly means that you are "unarmed". if they wanted to make a seperate skill involving throws and grapples im all for it but personally i dont mind them being merged. one other thing that seems to be missed is that most martial arts involving weapons such as swords also include moves that are essentially unarmed designed to throw the opponent off balance or disarm them. they often go hand in hand with one another.

as for the energy weapons vs guns skill i would rather see those skill related to maintenance and the ability to repair the weapons. if your a gun totin hillbilly and you find a laser rifle you probably going to be able to fire it and even reload it, but darned if you know how to repair it or which optics need cleaning or adjusting. i would like to see science separated from hacking. they are completely different things. there are tons of hackers out there who dont know a thing about physics or chemistry and lots of professors in those fields who cant figure out Adblock on firefox.

You mean like kicking an opponent in a sword fight so you can get an opening?

This makes sense. I'd be ok if they didn't merge them and did this. I really don't know why they didn't in the first place. If I want to play as an unarmed character I want to play as an unarmed character. I don't want to have to throw points into melee just to get perks that benefit unarmed when I should be able to get them WITH unarmed. Like how they did with some of the energy/gun perks.

I agree with this. I prefer that both skills remain, but whether they remain or merge, they really do need to work on the requirements. I wanted to make a Cowgirl with some of the best perks that would help her with guns and shotguns and crits but also I wanted some of the best melee stuff to help her with knives (and Chances' Knife). Well, all the high Unarmed skill requirements for stuff that affects both melee and unarmed ... its unjustifiable.

Piercing Strike should be unlocked as long as either skill is 70.

Unstoppable Force should be unlocked as long as either skill is 90. Or actually I'd change that to either being 70 also.

Super Slam should be unlocked as long as either is at 45.

Ninja should be unlocked with either at 80 (AND still require Sneak 80).

Slayer should be unlocked with either skill at 90.

Now I do feel that Paralyzing Palm makes sense. You have to use unarmed to make the attack, and so it only benefits unarmed. Cowboy mostly makes sense, due to what damage types it buffs (knives) but I could almost see a roleplaying reason to allow Cowboy to be either one (for the melee requirement) simply because its hard *not* to picture cowboys punching each other in the bar to unwind. But for all the other Perks above, I really resent some of the requirements.

It's how the attacks are committed. The weapons you mention extend the damage done by your arm - they don't work without using the specific style of fighting, where as it's the other way around when using melee weapons (your own power extends the damage done by the weapon you are using). At least that's one way to look at it.