I really liked the Skyrim's character creation. I liked the way it allows your character to grow as you play. However, the major thing that has always stood out to me, is how it seems to have completely not catered for Rogues (as in the collective term for Assassins, Striders, Thieves, Rangers etc). The type of character who uses agility rather than brawn or magic.


Rogue type of classes use lightweight weapons and wear light armor or no armor so that it doesn't effect them sneaking and also the ability move around quickly in combat situations and dodge incoming attacks. In combat they may lack in hitting points on a single strike compared to a bigger and heavier weapon, but with lighter weapons and faster hands, they match the damage with faster strikes. With this in mind, what is everyone else's thoughts to if agility was included? An attribute that aids the bodies nimbleness, reflexes and hand speed. Not to allow a character to run faster as that should be stamina (which would then gets slowed down by weight of equipment to level it back out) but the ability to dodge, sneak and hand / finger coordination (but should be greatly hindered by weight)


Thoughts?



(I haven't added health to the title as I have never really seen how controlling health adds to or effects your character's class and play style. It is just something there that you add points into between deciding whether you need to go with magical strength or physical strength)

I would have loved to see all eight Attributes in Skyrim. I thought Attributes added a nice layer of extra depth to character creation and development.

Without wanting to steer the thread off into a dicussion about the earlier TES eight attribute system, but I actually saw eight attributes as an over complication. I was massively into the earlier games such as Morrowind and Oblivion as I loved the open world experience and tried to get other gamers on my friends list into Oblivion thinking they would be as impressed. It supprised me that most were not into it. They liked the open world and freedom but that was it. I was again suprised to then find that these same people had no problem with Skyrim and massively enjoyed it. Personally I think it is the multiple attribute system that makes rpg unsuccessful compared to similar themed Action Adventure titles. Skyrim was a success as it bridged the gap.

When I played my mercenary archer, I quickly learned the value of a hefty Stamina pool. It wasn't for power attacks or even the Eagle Eye perk, but rather for sprint-dodging, running for cover, and quick escapes. I got good enough with the Alt key (on PC) that I could evade most attacks - unless, of course, a killcam was involved. So, in a sense, Stamina to me is the stat for my quick-n-speedy characters - it's how they cheat death and make a clean getaway.

That said, I'm one of those guys who never saw rogues as combat types in general. They might be able to fight in a pinch, but to me they were always mainly "utility" characters - the ones who find the treasure, bust their friends out of bonds, or pick out paths in the wilderness (not that any of that really applies in Skyrim). I never really warmed to the whole dual-wielding martial artist image of "rogues" that pervades video games, so I can't really relate to the whole idea of fast-hand fighters. Even my sword-and-dagger assassin character feels less "real," in a sense, than any of my mage characters...

I don't believe Skyrim needs an extra attribute to do any of what you described in your opening post. The gameplay fully supports the stereotypical nimble fighter/rogue type and that kind of characters are completely solid and viable. Daggers are the fastest weapons in the game, most of the light armor perks trying to make you faster one way or another and from there it's up to you if you could dodge attacks. What you 're asking is already there, maybe not as an attribute but as a combination of equipment and perks.

Remember that even if you go shieldless one handed, you can still block attacks or use the must have perk ''quick reflexes'' and switch to dual wield when you need.

Agility in Skyrim is best optimized through weapons, armor, and perk choices, rather than a blanket attribute. Which to me makes a little more sense, since those are things which directly affect one's agility. Sometimes the addition of multiple attributes can end up as a hindrance rather than a boon as you're trying to figure out which attribute to spend the one and only point you get during leveling.

Personally, I think its sad that the only way the masses embrace an RPG is if you take out all the stats.

But if you want to limit the discussion to Agility here, I like the way Requiem handles it by making heavy armor provide a lot more protection than light armor but also making it really dang heavy with enormous sneak penalties and a huge stamina drain. Stamina effects movement speed, weapon damage and a bunch of other stuff. There are also a bunch of hidden stats that you can view in the MCM that form its mass effect system that further tweaks things based on the mass of equipped items.

I am oversimplifying how the mechanics of it all work, but the end result is that rogue type characters wearing light armor or cloths really agile as compared to those wearing heavy armor. They can sneak better, run farther and faster and move and dodge way better. They need to sneak, dodge and block, because their light armor provides very little protection, so one or two hits can be deadly.

But the rogues in Requiem cannot swing weapons any faster. I am not sure the armor would really affect your swing speed all that much anyway.