Lorkhans status depends on culture.



Example:



But not just in the myths of crazy snake folk, he's up and walking in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-five-songs-king-wulfharth. Then the story continues on into the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-arcturian-heresy which suggests that dead Lorkhan even ended up advising the next Emperor.

Dead man walking indeed.

Moving on to Tiber as Lorkhan.

As you'll have read in the Arcturian Heresy, Tiber and Ysmir (being Lorkhan) become closely associated, infact it is suggested they both pretend to be the same person at different times. Specifically: "Ysmir, mindful that it might seem as if Tiber Septim is in two places at once, works behind the scenes."

So we end up with this:



Two persons, one god. A two-headed god, one of them a dragon. Kinda like that statue of him in Oblivion. But for good measure we might as well throw in the Sermons.



Coincidently this god (one half Lorkhan) takes the place of Shezarr, the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/shezarr-and-eight-divines (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-shezarr-and-divines) of Shor.

The obscure texts put a name to this whole party, mantling. Which makes it easier to talk about and it's less work to derive it that way. Do pay attention.

I have always pronounced it Al-du-in, it sounds more nordic. (Sweden is a cold and boring place)

I pronounce it Al-du-in. Might be because of my Norwegian accent. Don't know if this is correct.

He was jealous of the Sheo/Jygg dynamic and wanted some attention.

It's not comparable, and Sheo/Jyg was honestly a dim little sideshow so far as composite, paradoxical identities go in the ES universe.

I wrote a thread about my speculation about the prophecy and the Akatosh Alduin duality, if anyone wants to ponder it http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1162321-the-prophecy/page__p__17068288__fromsearch__1#entry17068288

Does this mean an eternal Dragon Break? or Time freezes?

I would say the end of the mortal plane and thus the very concept of time we are familiar with would be meaningless (Dawn Era?). A Dragon Break seems to be more when there is some loss of stability in Akatosh. Him just saying "I'm out!" and walking away sounds like it would end more catastrophically. You can't really have space-time without the time.

I always thought that the dawn eras were timeless because Auriel has left Mundus, and that the dragon breaks had many timelines happen at once and then converge, like a homeless man taping together a shattered mirror.

Where'd the homeless man get the tape?!

Im thinking that Akatosh and Alduin are different aspects of the same being, that can exist together at the same time (kinda like multiple personalities but each persona gets a divine representation).

Akatosh wants to protect while Alduin wants to destroy.

And i would like to add that both wish to keep things as they are, Alduin wishes to destroy but only to being with new/same old. Auri-El on other hand might be willing to let it all crumble so that he can escape back to what he was before. Problem here is just the fact that why did Auri-El instituted linear time (and returned to Mundus) in the first place after dawn era? Or was this one of Lorkhan's (half-successful) tricks?

If it was Auri-El's idea then i'm wondering what different movements there are within Altmer culture? Do they infact have two versions of Auri-El? Other wishing to keep things as they are (conservative version of Akatosh) and other wishing to get rid of Talos and Mundus. I don't comprehend it other wise. I must admit i'm quite a rookie with Altmer culture/society.

"Different movements within Altmer culture" are called Dunmer, Bosmer, Ayleid, etc. Other than those initial splits and the recent rise of the Beautiful (whose religious views we don't know anything about), Altmer society is built on preserving a singular pure identity.

Who are the Beautiful?

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-edition-blessed-isle-alinor-and-summersets

How Beautiful you are that you do not join us.

Oh true. Hadn't heard of Beautiful before. But thinking more along lines of PSIJJJJ Order. The way i understood it, they aren't like PSIJJJJ Endavour, but not like common Altmer society either.

One thing what bothers me is that when Mannimarco talks about first dragon break he says High King of Alinor was the one who did it.


In the first place??? So Tribunal weren't the first it seems. Has there been something in Dawn Era or very early at 1st Era?

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire.

Auriel is the High King of the Aldmer. He broke means he was the one that got broken, not that he broke the dragon.

Mannimarco is saying Auriel broke the dragon first.

I think it was excellently cunning plot. Maybe after Creation Akatosh power was diminished, so he couldn't easily enter the world. Also maybe he loathed the world because originally he was tricked (at least, Ald/Altmer point of view). So he helped some processes in Tamriel that weakened its defence and its "independence". He even presented himself as savior in OB and really was glad defeating his old enemy. Though, maybe, Mehrunes Dagon could be defeated without any Alduin's help (by Psijicks, or by Greybeards, or some such). :tongue:
But, dear Loremasters, I have a question. From all lore I've read I see that Akatosh and Lorkhan are chief antagonists and not the same being. So, please, give the citation of the original game book or devs' words about the Enatiomorph connection exactly of Akatosh and Lorkhan.

other half being the key part of that quote. In context, Pelinal speaking about the Amulet of Kings, it clearly is referring to Lorhkan and Akatosh being two halves of the same thing.

Volume 6 of the same also has Pelinal saying "O Aka, for our shared madness I do this! I watch you watching me watching back!", which is at least suggestive.

I'm sorry that's the only thing I can think of at the moment; but this is so firmly established I'm sure someone else can help you more. You might be interested in the thread "The Amulet of Kings" that's on the first page right now; this subject was discussed a bit in it.

Heavens, Akatosh is not Lorkhan...

They are NOT two sides of the same deity

It is amazing how far people will reach to confuse themselves

Is Tiber Septim Lorkhan?.... Akatosh?


Before you know it they will say ALL the divines are the same thing...

Both, actually.

There is a great deal of evidence supporting the notion that Akatosh and Lorkhan, even if they are palpably distinct, are at the very least deeply interconnected in ways that binds them up with one another. I assure you I am not confused.

There are a number of metaphors we could use. I'll give two that illustrate two different ways of looking at the Akatosh/Lorkhan duality.

One: Aspen trees. They looks like separate trees, but in fact are one organism if you examine their connected roots. So you have separate "trees," but one "organism." In this view of the Akatosh/Lorkhan duality, you might suppose that the two deities are cut from the same mixed Padomaic/Anuic cloth, so to speak, but have manifested themselves in Aurbis as distinct beings. Like two corners on different ends of the same fabric dipping into the realm of Mundus.

Two: that bundle of cables you throw in your junk drawer. You know those two cables that, through months of rummaging, have become completely entangled in one another? They have become one thing: a knot. They once were two cables, and now are one knot.

I personally favor this second metaphor because it illustrates what happened when Lorkhan convinced/tricked the Gods into creating Mundus: Akatosh and Lorkhan (and yes, the rest of the Divines) became bound up with one another, according to Lorkhan's original design. Further events in the history of Mundus served to entangle the Lorkhan and Akatosh specifically even further, starting with their establishment of the King/Rebel myth pattern. Auri-El, as a more primal/"uncorrupted" version of the Dragon God is a little freer, a little less invested in creation, and wishes to untangle himself. But Akatosh, that heavily "modded" aspect of the Dragon God, acts practically just like Lorkhan in the way he invests in Man's benefit.

The two might have been relatively distinct once, but they are no longer. In the context of physical reality, what is space without time? More importantly, what is time without space?