Akatosh the world-eater?

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:54 am

So I read this: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/alduinakatosh-dichotomy
And the author concluded that Akatosh and Alduin were in fact one, contrary to nord beliefs. He just says that the story about Alduin as a world-eater is just an oral story that isn't reliable at all, but after the return of the Dragonborn in the 4th era we know that these stories are real. We face Alduin, go to Sovengarde where he devour souls and even travel through time to witness the Drago war. So Alduin the world-eater is real. But is he another person than Akatosh, or is Akatosh the world-eater? Or is Alduin some pantheon of Akatosh? I think I can remember someone saying that Alduin is the firstborn of Akatosh as well.
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Erika Ellsworth
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 11:34 pm

There is another book that says the two dragons are different. and i believe that Akatosh and Alduin are different.
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Samantha Mitchell
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 11:57 pm

Alduin is the first-aspect of Akatosh.
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Naomi Ward
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:59 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Alduin_is_Real

Before the game was released there were on the forum roughly two camps of thinkers.
Scholarly people that used long theses to explain why in a mythical sense they were one and the same creature, using words like enantiomorph, mytho-poesis and fractal. And literal-minded people that basically said: They are not the same, because they are named different and come from different cultures.

I believe that these two books are a little joke Bethesda made on that discussion, which got quite heated at times.

I was in the first camp at the time, but it turns out that the second one was more right than I was.

Alduin appears to be a subgradient of Akatosh. Dragons make several references to Akatosh being their father and there is a bit of apocrypha that states that Alduin split from Aka.
Since this happened after creation it would make Alduin Ehlnofey and so I while I was wrong, in a way so were they and a person can have peace with that :wink:
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marie breen
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:56 am

He's Alduin and Akatosh, in the way that the nerevarine is him or herself yet also Nerevar.* While you can get the two of them in the same room and they can think and act separately, at their core they are aspects a single being, which is Time. The Akatosh of the Imperial Pantheon, even though he was retroactively created by humans after Alduin was banished into THA FYOOO-CHURRRR!!!!! is representative of "time as thing itself," and therefore eternity. Alduin is representative of "time as that which ends other things."

Go read the monomyth, it has foreign gods interacting, we just didn't emphasize the relevant passages before release.

*This is not truly anything like that, but it's a lie people can understand and doesn't take like four paragraphs.
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Dawn Porter
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 5:37 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Alduin_is_Real

Before the game was released there were on the forum roughly two camps of thinkers.
Scholarly people that used long theses to explain why in a mythical sense they were one and the same creature, using words like enantiomorph, mytho-poesis and fractal. And literal-minded people that basically said: They are not the same, because they are named different and come from different cultures.
Some time before release, MK said something interesting, something about how the Nine (which would have logically included Akatosh) always ensured there was a loophole to ensure Alduin doesn't devour the world. This was before we got any real evidence that Alduin was anything other than the Nordic aspect of Akatosh/Auriel.

Edit: And frankly, those who believed that Alduin and Akatosh weren't the same before this wouldn't have used it as evidence when it was posted.
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Lily
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 4:05 am

Some time before release, MK said something interesting, something about how the Nine (which would have logically included Akatosh) always ensured there was a loophole to ensure Alduin doesn't devour the world. This was before we got any real evidence that Alduin was anything other than the Nordic aspect of Akatosh/Auriel.

Replace the loophole or walkabout with elder scroll, Akatosh with Ruptga and Alduin with Satakal, then you got a possible answer.
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KiiSsez jdgaf Benzler
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:55 pm

I like to think Akatosh would be slightly harder to kill. And there are other books with conflicting ideas. Besides, wouldn't being technically "dead" and bound to Mundus prevent you from actually appearing in your full glory? If anything I'd contend that Alduin is either an avatar of Akatosh, or Akatosh's child.
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Tom
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:49 pm

Gods are beyond our mortal minds' ability to comprehend. Especially Akatosh/Auriel/Alduin/Aka/etc., who not only exists outside of time, but is time itself. Aka is Alduin, but is not as well, because our brain can't understand two beings being the same being but not being the same being because one is an aspect of another...ack! Aka wishes to continue this kalpa, while Alduin wishes to devour it. Because of non linear time during the Dawn Era, all myths are true (for the most part). Akatosh is the world eater, but only because Alduin is the world eater. It also helps that Akatosh is said to be insane/schizophrenic.

EDIT: Inb4 Alduin mantled Akatosh son of Aka son of Anu.
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Causon-Chambers
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 5:33 am

There's Aka, then there's Aka.

Don't get them confused.
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Charlie Sarson
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 7:53 am

Some time before release, MK said something interesting, something about how the Nine (which would have logically included Akatosh) always ensured there was a loophole to ensure Alduin doesn't devour the world.
From TIL:
When you consider a place like Tamriel, sometimes it's best to take titles literally. Alduin is the World-Eater. It's not going to be "the end of all *life* as we know it," leaving a barren wasteland of Earthbone dirt... it's going to be the whole of Nirn inside his mighty gullet.

"None shall survive" has been a calling card for awhile, but that was only a hint to the more extensive "Nothing will survive."

Unless, of course, there's a loophole. Say, something like the someone called the Dovakhiin happening to show up..."born under uncertain stars to uncertain parents." (An aside for extra credit: what in the Aurbis makes the Prisoner such a powerful mythic figure?)

The Eight Limbs (and their Missing Ninth) have always, always made sure there was a loophole. Sometimes to their detriment, sure, but more often a hedged bet to ensure the survival of the current kalpa.
There's also this:
Don't forget that gods can be shaped by the mythopoeic forces of the mantlers-- so Tosh Raka could be an Akaviri avatar of Akatosh with a grudge against his mirror-brother in Cyrodiil.

Just like Akatosh-as-we-usually-know-him could time-scheme against his mirror-brother of the Nords, Alduin, to keep the present kalpa-- perhaps his favorite-- from being eaten.

Notice all the coulds.
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Gen Daley
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:39 pm

Song of Shezzar in the Monomyth says parts of that only prettier, where "Auriel," who we all know to be "Akatosh," is in conflict with Akatosh based on their disagreement over whether the sacrifice to make the world was a good thing. That corroborates the "could" of the mirror-brothers in conflict.
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Ashley Hill
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 3:41 pm

Alduin refers to himself as "firstborn" of Akatosh at the conclusion of "Alduin's Bane." What would "firstborn" mean in the context of an Aedra?
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Tina Tupou
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:45 am

Alduin refers to himself as "firstborn" of Akatosh at the conclusion of "Alduin's Bane." What would "firstborn" mean in the context of an Aedra?
Largest fragment me thinks.
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Kahli St Dennis
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:16 am

Largest fragment me thinks.

What do you mean by "largest fragment?"
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Brooks Hardison
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 5:57 am

Alduin refers to himself as "firstborn" of Akatosh at the conclusion of "Alduin's Bane." What would "firstborn" mean in the context of an Aedra?
Perhaps he is the first being created by Akatosh during the Convention. And by extension, the strongest.
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k a t e
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:58 pm

First interpretation by degenerated et-Ada.

Alduin, the time dragon as a firestorm tearing through the sky to end Lorkhans endeavor. (the destroyer)

In contrast to the time dragon as the spirit that enabled and gave purpose to the life of the other spirits (the guardian/Akatosh) or the time dragon as a saviour that will liberate from a falsely adverised endeavor (the saviour/Auriel).
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D IV
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:21 am

First interpretation by degenerated et-Ada.

Alduin, the time dragon as a firestorm tearing through the sky to end Lorkhans endeavor. (the destroyer)

In contrast to the time dragon as the spirit that enabled and gave purpose to the life of the other spirits (the guardian/Akatosh) or the time dragon as a saviour that will liberate from a falsely adverised endeavor (the saviour/Auriel).
Being the first, he presumably would have seen most of the Creation and the gradual degeneration/dilution of the Aedra. Thus if anyone knew how to reverse it, it would be him.
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(G-yen)
 
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