It simply makes me wonder, partially due to the Tsaesci creation myth which composes some of the only knowledge I've seen on a non-Tamrielic mythology, are the Aedra and Daedra a localized phenomenon for the specific myth center of the world, Tamriel? I don't see any obvious mention of them in said myth.

Observational bias comes to mind, as the games are set in Tamriel, but I wonder what these deities would even look like to a golden scaled immortal being, which itself implies a greater knowledge of the true creation process, if not participation then observation at least? The fact that their creation myth also reads like a scientific journal from a Tsaesci Metaphysics 101 course would lend itself to a detached knowledge of said process, almost like something they'd seen before.

What are functional immortality's implications to a world structure that is born and reborn as a wheel? Does this mean that the Tsaesci have collectively superceded the wheel? While the Dwemer possibly represent the other attempts at achieveing this who are mentioned as reduced to "calculation powder." (The ashes in the Dwemer ruins under Mournhold bring this to mind) This might be the rather interesting symbolism behind the golden scales they seem to have, somewhat like walk-brass.

This makes me wonder what Alduin thinks of them if they are something that cannot be eaten and then recreated into the next kalpa due to their immortality. That thing with the Leper Demon King hiding bits of the previous Kalpa jump to mind. Where better to hide them than 4200 miles from the mythic center of the world?

This also brings to mind the Draconic symbology around Tosh-Raka, and what we do know of him. If he is the localized Alduin symbol, then it would make sense why he would want to invade a kingdom of beings who could be collectively somewhat Shezzarine. Even if he is something like a Jill, then it would still possibly put him in the role of error-checking the Tsaesci out of being within the context of the present "turn" of the wheel.

I could also just be overanolyzing what little we do know.

Its also probable that Akavir simply is a sort of Anu (Immortality=Stasis, Tosh Raka=Alduin-symbol) to Tamriel's Padomay (Arena, [mortality]=Change, Talos=Shezzar). Which would be absolutely peachy if Nirn's cartography turns out to be simply Tamriel with Akavir on the other side of Nirn. :biggrin:

The Tsaesci are the wheel. Ouroboros and all that jazz.

It's in the title. They ate [the dragons] to become them. Every Tsaesci is literally a spoke of The Wheel, ie the Aedra. Just like Marukh and that whole business with the (probably) Staff of Chaos.

Also, I like your idea of Akavir being an Anuic "mirror" of a Padomaic Tamriel. I'm totally stealing that.

Lol. Occam's Razor just kicked in. :banghead: Thank you sir.

If I got this right, then the other implication of the Tsaesci being the spokes of the wheel is that they wouldn't need a tower for mythic manipulations?

Must fit more lore in cranium.... lol.

Could be crazy, but I also believe I've read somewhere that Akavir poses the greatest threat to Tamriel, makes me wonder if the mirror-continent-mythforce is behind that, or if I'm overanolyzing and that the threat in that case would come from something purely obvious like military superiority or something... lol.

Where exactly is the source that the Tsaesci are immortal and thus kalpa-transcending. Everything you say makes leet, mirror-mythic sense, but I didn't know the Tsaesci were immortal. This is a really cool observation by the dubs.

Wow. Awesome ideas.

But, I always thought that the Tamrielians called the Tsaesci immortal for lack of an explanation for their exceedingly long lives.
Meaning, they're mortal, but in a way not understandable to the inhabitants of Tamriel.

I think the immortal part comes along with them being vampiric.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/tsaesci-creation-myth-and-we-ate-it-become-it

The Remanada names them vampire snakemen, immortal is implied in the myth above, and there are no more variations.

Moar liek samurai Borg.

What do you think happened to http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/captain-picard-and-borg-queen-440x499.jpg?

"They are tall, beautiful (if frightening), covered in golden scales, and immortal." - Said of the Tsaesci in Mysterious Akavir.

I know all about the possibilities for inaccuracies to game-reality within that text, but admittedly it is part of where the immortality idea initiated as well.





Both of these have fascinating implications. For both everyone on Tamriel and the former men of Akavir. :trophy:

Are you implying a collective sort of consciousness Jara? In the sense of the specific Vampirism of one named Tsaesci being a sort of multibodied continuous individual, not unlike if catching a virus gave you the conciousness of the person before you.

The goal of Eating would lend itself to a many-to-one action, like when the entire race of Dwemer became the skin of Numidium. And we all have theories about what that means to Yagrum's buddies.

I could perhaps see that as an exploration by the Devs at other types of sentience, although I'd rather assumed this was more the role of the Hist from a story telling perspective, as it seems that they do like looking at all differing possible perspectives for the action of creation. (MK anyway... lol.) So in this case you have creation as a blessing (men), creation as a curse (mer), several Tamrielic subgradients within those viewpoints (Yokudan creation myth that has aspects of both[also represents a possibility for another continental myth-view paradigm shift actually.]), and the Tsaesci (creation is food to become somehow implicitly bound to by this action?).

This would however definitely define the sacred act of eating within their society. Spreading "Tsaescence" to more and more individuals and assimilating them into their society as the same immortal beings, although if each Tsaesci is a spoke of the wheel as we said earlier, then what precisely does CHIM look like to somebody who has succeeded in becoming a Tower? (Given other forum talk about the towers around white gold representing spokes of the wheel.) This also desperately makes me wish I could read creation myths for the other Akaviri species... lol.

All this talk makes me want to have a sit down with Versidue-Shae and Tosh Raka about their world view... lol.

And also idk, hug a Hist, however we'd communicate about creatia from a non-Ehlnofey perspective assuming my mammal brain could handle it. :poke:

He's still alive. They have him on life support, dangling above their Queen. From his chest to crotch, there's a gaping wound, hewn so that his blood and seman eternally drip to her coiled mass. She took a husband, at last.

Of course, Uriel V, in that glorious state is transformed. This is how the Chim-el Ada'bal and Red Dragon Crown passed to the Tsaesci. You know what she's done, don't you? She's made him a receptacle of the egg-bone she tore from his chest. She's made him a woman!


Be cautious of the heights you raise banners, Cyrodiil. Lest your audacity be preamble to paranoia. [I'm looking at you, Uriel VII.]

Yes, exactly. But I don't think it's what they want. I get the impression that all this eating (or assimilating, going with my Borg anology), is because they think that if they become one with every subgradient of creation (gods, dragons and humans... hell, they're even one with the land- "Tsaeci" is their race, but it's also their kingdom's name- "Snake Palace"), they'll be able to go the way of the Dwemer and lose themselves. As it stands, there's definitely some form of racial CHIM at work, which would be enough for some people, but not the Tsaesci!

I mean, the golden scales of the Tsaesci, and the golden skin of Walk-Brass, which are both Towers, definitely has some kind of connection.

How are the Tsaesci a tower?

I like the spokes of the wheel, more. I was imagining millions of Tsaesci praying to their city, creating the wheel across all dimensions.

I desperately want that DLC for Skyrim; think of it as a way of supporting your legitimacy as Dragon-Borne Emperor by righting the failures of your forebears. It all sounds so deliciously Giger-ish.

Also makes me wonder if this "Eating" or a many-to-one action in general produce a collective entity is a valid path to CHIM. Although the notion of "assimilation" would probably explain why they were perceived as being so unseen and powerful during the whole "Disaster at Ionith" episode. This in and of itself also makes me wonder what everyone else on Akavir think about their relative state of being, if they don't already share in it.

That would be a late-night misinterpretation of my understanding of divine metaphysics.
Wheel, Tower, it's all the same thing, really.

At any rate, there's a connection.



I like it. Makes me think of a kind of Mecca (in a basic sense), with the Tsaesci (the people) praying in the direction of Tsaesci (the kingdom) every day, in order to keep their 'spoke-ness' intact.



Well, she did need a Lorkhan to complete the set. Makes sense that a race of Anuic beings would need to get their Padomay on with the help of a foreigner. (I wonder if that was the whole point of all their invasions? To capture someone they could use as a Shezzarine? And then the Empire goes and hands them one on a silver platter. )

Also, that post is just spooky cool.

They're the second Walking Way, known in the West as Numidium. The Dwemer failed because they lacked love, or because they were missing one of their own.

Thanks for putting up with my wild conjecturing, I think you just cleared up some of the largest speculations I had on the lore.

I still think you are shoehorning them into a role they don't fit. Their myth is a "Walk like them until they walk like us", it's mimicry becomes replacement. While (at least) one of the towers mimics creation as a whole, they are in place to harvest that creation to some other purpose. Also towers are largely thought to be the elven approach to transcendence, while the Tsaesci are more manish in most respects.

I'm not totally convinced by your argument. To me, eating/assimilating the gods, goes hand in hand with the idea of "spokes of the wheel".

And what's so mannish about the Tsaesci? Just because they ate the humans, doesn't necessarily mean they only take after them. After all, they ate the gods and the dragons (and the land as well- look at the name of their kingdom) as well. I mean, assimilating everything in creation, presumably to return to a state of divinity (or to maintain it), that sounds like an elven thing to do.

Then again, we've got bugger all to go on, but mannish leanings would imply that they have an inclination for Lorkhan-like behaviour, and all I see is Auriel-ish tendencies.

They defy the empire of Tosh Raka.

Also, their hand in establishing the Empire of Reman and Talos himself.

Tsaesci is a mirror of the Dominon and Ka'Po'Tun is a mirror of the Septim Empire.

A quick comparison between Mysterious Akavir and PGE 1st edition gives us:
A conflict between the former greatest power of the continent and a budding empire ruled by a dragon-emperor.
The latter is stronger except at sea.
The former's inhabitants are beautiful, terrifying and golden (not to mention they keep/kept goblins as slaves).

However: While the Emperor of Tamriel is Lorkhan, the Emperor of Akavir is Akatosh.
Mirror-images indeed.

Just a thought but: A mirror-image is reversed in every way. In cartoons Asia (China really) is up-side-down whenever someone (in the west) digs a hole there. From a Tamrielic perspective Akavir is up-side-down, mythic-narrative-wise. In Akavir Lorkhan won the struggle during the Dawn and Akatosh went missing. One and one have switched places and the result has monkeys.

Oh, and the big one: they eat the world. How could I forget that!?

Just in a more mythic, less literal sense.

Lorkhan is an archetype of the missing god, so he must go missing.

@the Black Wind: How about Doom Drum ?

And that's why it's interesting to turn it on it's head.

"one and one, eleven, an inelegant number. Which of the ones is the more important? Could you ever tell if they switched places?"

The rebel is the archetype. Actors can switch roles and roles can switch actors. The rebel becomes the king who in turn becomes the rebel. They are brothers (and two sides of the same) either way, one who's lost his heart and one who's lost his mind.

Also: Mythic up-side-down world!