Sorry for the delay, RL keeps slapping me around.

Anyway, about to update COBL to use scripted effects. Last call for bugs.

I've just upgraded from 0.6d to this new version and everything went very well

I'll try to use it a bit and then get back to give feedback!

Thanks a lot,

cheers,
leandro

Update v.91
========

• Can now handle scripted effects (make sure to update COBL and Pluggy and start using TSFC).
  
• Fixed a bug caused by removing SI and using a SI formula afterwards.
  
• Can now use recipes while on horseback (really a COBL fix, but still...)

Ahh, the activate player bug. Might I ask how you fixed it? Well more particular if you used another activator or another dummy actor instead.

::edit:: Oh and how exactly would scripted effects get into the entire mix. I'm not sure I know when or how you could get a scripted effect in a potion. :unsure:

Dummy actor - the activator itself didn't seem to matter

That's a good point, so ^^^^

OBSE v15 allows me to do things a little differently, and change how the mod detects when a potion has been created. I can either:

• The original way - when you press Create a menu pops up and asks if you want to write down the formula.
  
• Hold shift while you press the Create button.
  
• Hit a key, like "F", when you want to write down a formula. I don't quite like this one because I don't find it as immersive (how would you know the potion unless you've created it), but that stage of the mod is far off (if I ever can get to it).

Poll on the first page, let me know what you think.

Interesting mod, I've downloaded it and will install it later to see how it works. BTW, I voted for the second option ("hold shift...") because I figure it would be the most immersive one.

Enjoy and thanks for the vote (no, this isn't a [bump] )

I think you've created a paradox, in that you didn't bump, so your non-bump couldn't have brought this thread to my attention and cause me to realize that I had a question... but I guess I'll ask anyway .

Is there any ability (or pending addon) to make "loose" Formulas available for sale, or as loot or something?

In my never-ending quest to have the PC be able to live without being able to do every bloody thing his/her self as if s/he was a Master of the Universe (which, it turns out, I find completely unacceptable in an RPG), I realized that this mod would be great for being able to make potions without being an dedicated Alchemist, in the same way that recipes allow you to cook lovely food without being a master chef.... but you have to be able to get the Formulas or recipes from somewhere, and I don't get the impression that that is currently possible.

Am I wrong? It would be really nice if I could go to the First Edition or even the Mystic Emporium and buy some premium formulas (for a moderately premium price, of course) and give them a whirl. Now I would expect that if I was a novice Alchemist, that there would be a chance that the creation would fail, just as I would expect that I would quite possibly fail at making my first souffle from a cookbook when all of my previous cooking experience consisted of making spaghetti and meatballs-- but hey, it's my money to spend, so I should be able to try if I want, and if I succeed-- and you know, I just might succeed, even though I've never done these things before; I might be a natural talent, or I might just get lucky... you don't know me, after all -- I would of course get better at it. But I would get better at it in a way that RP-s more as a "hobby" or "minor skill that I pick up along the way".. in other words, a bit more naturally for a non-Alchemist/magic user rather than this dratted installation that means you have to spend time really doing alchemical things (collecting plants) and buying alchemical tools as if you really cared about alchemy (assuming you might want to have custom potions in your inventory, which I do, just because I feel like you should be able to acquire "Exclusive" potions somehow, since you can't so much buy them like you could in Morrowind).

I do wonder if the chance of failure might be skewed by technical limitations, in that if I really am a Novice, and the formula that I buy or find (you think that Necromancers and Shamans wouldn't have a formula or two tucked away, or that an assassin wouldn't have a couple of poison formulas that they use often?) uses effects that I cannot yet see, that's kinda not fair to me, in that if a recipe says that you can do thus-and-so with an ingredient, my function in following the instructions is just to believe that (it doesn't cease to be true that thus-and-so ingredient does thus-and-so just because my experience too limited to see it, especially when the formula-- the expert-- is saying that it does). But if the mod overcomes this by allowing me to make potions from formulas beyond my natural ability (and isn't that the whole point of writing stuff down?) then certainly a staged failure chance based on my natural ability, which decreased as my natural ability increased, would be appropriate.

Anyway, is that possible/already done/in the works? It would just be great if so.

I had some in the earlier version (v.6 I think) and should be able to add them back without too much problem.

Ability to make potions above your level - this would require some deeper changes, but should be do-able. To continue with the cooking metaphor, a recipe can only go so far, of course - the first time I made a yogurt sauce I had a bad recipe (or have been told it was a bad recipe ) and it broke, the second time I had a more proportional recipe and made the sauce without a problem. However, no recipe in the world could give me the ability to make a souffl? correctly on my first, second, etc. try - I just need the cooking experience to do it.

So, expanding on your ideas and the metaphor:

• Loose Recipes/Formulas give bonuses/penalties - If the recipe is well written you get an effective Alchemy boost, maybe upto +5. If it's poorly written, and you're below the "skill" of the recipe, it will give a penalty, again upto -5. As you should learn with a recipe, each time you use it you have a chance of getting rid of some of the penalty.
  
• Getting effects above your rank - If you're using a good recipe (written by someone else) you should at least have a chance to get the extra effect(s). How about - you can only get effects from the next rank (no souffl?s), the chance is based on your base luck and the quality of the recipe, as described above.

I've never really thought along those lines, to be honest. What I want from Alchemy is a bit more drastic. I always liked the notes of the Alchemist in the first Mages Guild quest in Morrowind - the experiments were ingredient based, with detailed notes on how each ingredient differed and what it could do, rather than the game's potion based system, where all ingredients and your knowledge of them are the same and interchangeable.

In an ingredient based system, you know effects for each ingredient, not for all ingredients. As you use an ingredient in more of your potions, with more of other ingredients, or read about it (and, again, there should be false information as well as true information), you will be able to see more effects on the ingredient (technical - ). Your Alchemy skill determines how quickly you can learn the effects of an ingredient, but even to a Master Alchemist, the first time they see an ingredient they won't see know any of the effects and will take a few tries before they know most of the effects.

Another aspect, and somewhat along the lines of your ideas, while you may not know all of the effects of an ingredient they are still there. I was thinking that you always have a chance to make these extra effects (maybe an infinitesimal chance, but a chance), however, if you don't make all of the effects the extra magic of the ingredient is still there, and has a chance of making another effect. Let's say you have some Vension and Boar Meat (IIRC, the first two effects of both are Restore Fatigue and Shield) and know the Restore Fatigue aspect of it pretty well. Whenever you make a potion there's a chance you'll get a shield effect, but if you don't make the shield effect you have a chance of another, "lesser" effect - maybe Restore Health, Damage Health, Disintegrate Armour, etc.


The ingredient stuff would definitely be another mod, and another time, but it's what I would like to see. For now, I'm trying to upgrade this for OBSE v15 and hopefully add a few extra goodies (formulas, will ignore formulas you've already made, at least in the same writing session). I should be done tweaking Keychain and am trying to "finish" up my other Alchemy mods, will return to this stuff with more force afterwards.


And, oh yeah, vote please!

I tried the mod and it is very good, really makes things easier in terms of alchemy. I thought that using the mortar and pestle would trigger it to ask me if I wanted to write down the formula, but it turns out I have to use the quill for it to work. But it is ok, usually when I want to create a potion or a poison I check my list of ingredients before opening the alchemy menu, to have an idea of useful effects I might get, so if I know there is something I want to write down I use the quill.

I did that to give the player more control, but if an extra button is needed (options 2 and 3 in the poll), then it shouldn't be necessary any longer. Actually, as this is supposed to replace the Alchemy system as much as possible, I guess it's not really needed, and can be used for Option 1.

One idea I've been kicking around - still require the player to have a quill, inkblot and paper to write down the formulas, but otherwise allowing formulas to be created any time the menu is opened.

Good idea, at least for the immersionists.

Final [bump] for the poll, late night crowd

Many thanks, haama! I just hope you keep the last non-COBL version available as well.

I want to change my vote. I voted for the original way but after some thinking I like the idea more where you press a key when the menu is open.

Option 3? Noted

Hi haama! I'm coming with a request after very content using of AF: would you look up http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=860229&view=findpost&p=12541281 - point 2)? It would be great if you could make it possible!

Cheers

Waiting for a response from the XP author, but it should be easy and quick to do. Note, though, that it will be in the next COBL upgrade rather than an Alchemical Formulas upgrade.

So I just tried out your Beta V9 mod for the first time. Very nice, the formulas are really easy to use. A huge improvement over what you had before. :thumbsup:

Still waiting for a recipe book though, and the option to have substitute ingredients within the same formula. Maybe Pluggy can make this all possible? And how about the option of saving our formulas to disk, like Kyomo's Journal?

COBL has been updated! http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15619 users - upgrade and you should see some XP from using formulas. I'm going on SirFrederik's word here, so I haven't tested it - let me know if it's working/not.

For everyone else, the update includes a fix to increases your misc stat Potions Created when you make a potion - sorry I missed it before.

Cool and glad you're liking it

All possible and on the list, but I have to wait a bit - My schedule has not been a schedule recently It's been a bit hectic, and I need a clear period of time (even a week would be nice :wacko:) before I'll focus on this again. Until then, I'll keep hacking on Oblivion basics so I can avoid future pitfalls

Awesome! It's taking some time but you're going to end up with an incredible mod in the end. One thing I was wondering, will it break anything if the quill wasn't a quest item? I'd like to attach it to a hotkey but it's not possible right now.

Go right ahead - only a quest item to keep people from accidentally dropping it.

Great. I don't suppose you'd know whether the Real Hunger Dinner plate can be changed as well do you? I've picked up a new hotkey mod so I now have more than enough options to hotkey everything I need, and I'd like to simply all these things.

Haama, this is an excellent mod. Saves thousands of clicks, another one to join my favourite list of labour-saving mods with Speedy Looting, Herbalism, etc.

A quick question about the Alchemy skill advancement calculations, if I may. Using the formulas does advance my skill, but only a fraction as fast as creating the potions myself. Does your mod have a fixed advancement rate, or does it calculate it according to your skill levelling settings (e.g. from OOO)? Is there a way for me to alter it?

The slower rate is probably more realistic (otherwise I can just sit down and gain 10 levels in a few minutes), but my Alchemy's at 30 now, so I hate to think how slow it'll be to level at 80.

Complicating the situatuion, I use hundreds of mods - here's my mod list if it would be of any use:

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm03  Jog_X_Mod.esm04  CM Partners.esm05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.44]06  Qarls_Harvest.esm07  Armamentarium.esm08  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34Beta3][Edit] Forgot to comment on the poll. It may be a bit late now, but I've voted for holding Shift/Ctrl/etc. you might get a few people unable to figure this out at the start (RTFM?), but after doing it a couple of times I think it'd be quicker & easier than having to click twice. I'm guessing you'd also want a key to toggle it on & off in the current brewing session (with a message telling you it's done), so you don't have to exit the menu & go back in again to activate/deactivate the writing down of formulas.09  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.6beta2]0A  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.36]0B  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm0C  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]0D  Cybiades.esm  [Version 2.0]0E  DA Run Fatigue.esm++  HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp0F  nVidia Black Screen Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.2]10  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]11  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]12  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp13  DLCShiveringIsles.esp14  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch-MOBS.esp  [Version 1.3.0]15  Oblivion.esp16  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp17  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp18  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp19  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1A  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1B  Fran Armor Add-on.esp++  phinix-waterfix.esp1C  MIS Low Wind.esp1D  MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp1E  Rainbows.esp1F  IWR - 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Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]3E  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]3F  SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.11]40  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.44]41  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.32]42  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.41]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]43  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp44  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]45  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]46  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp47  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]48  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34Beta3]49  Choices and Consequences - OOO.esp  [Version 0.1]4A  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]4B  Choices and Consequences - MMM.esp  [Version 0.1]4C  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4D  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]4E  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]++  Choices and Consequences - MMM - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 0.1]4F  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]50  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]51  Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]52  Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]53  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]54  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]55  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Choices and Consequences - FCOM - Diverse Guards.esp  [Version 0.1]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]56  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]57  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]58  TamrielTravellers4000.esp  [Version 1.36]++  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp59  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.36]5A  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Choices and Consequences - 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Vile Lair.esp  [Version 2.1.0]++  Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp  [Version 2.1.0]AE  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp  [Version 2.1.0]AF  Skip Tutorial.espB0  DA Fatigued Running.esp++  DA ReducedBackwardsRunningSpeed.espB1  DA Sprint.espB2  RealisticForceMedium.espB3  RealisticMagicForceMedium.espB4  RealisticLeveling.espB5  Grandmaster of Alchemy.espB6  Legendary Abilities-Fortify Health MOJ.espB7  Kyoma's Spell Renamer.esp  [Version 1.82]B8  Gather Ye Rosebuds.espB9  Enchantment Enhanced.espBA  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.55EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.55EV]++  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.55EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.55EV]BB  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.55EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.55EV]BC  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.55EV]++  bgMagicEVExtendedConjurationDuration.esp  [Version 1.55EV]BD  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.81]BE  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_NoPoisonLevitationEffects.esp  [Version 0.70]BF  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_UnlockSpells.esp  [Version 0.70]++  bgMagicEV_Conjuration_for_Supreme_Magicka.esp  [Version 1.5]C0  Alchemical Formulas.espC1  Herbalism.esp++  Herbalism - Shivering Isles.espC2  Herbalism - DLCFrostcrag.esp++  Herbalism - DLCVileLair.esp++  Harvest [Flora] - Patch.espC3  Speedy Looting OBSE.espC4  Speedy Looting - OOO.espC5  Speedy Looting - wd purse of wonders.espC6  DD_ProximitySneakPenalty.espC7  RenGuardOverhaul.espC8  RenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.espC9  DW_FameInfamyBounty.espCA  Denock Arrows.espCB  No More Annoying Comments.espCC  No More Annoying Messages.esp  [Version 1.3]CD  NoMerchantBarterpvssyr.espCE  Remove Persuasion Game Replies v1.0.espCF  No Load Screen on Death v1.0.esp++  MessageBox Remover.espD0  CM Partners.espD1  Atmospheric Loading Screens - No Text.espD2  bgMagicLightningbolt.espD3  BNewShockBoltEffects20.esp++  Real Lava 1.3.espD4  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 9.12EV-D]D5  bgBalancingOptionalNPCDiversity, TNR Merge.esp  [Version 9.12EV-D]D6  bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp  [Version 9.12EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 9.12EV-D]D7  Duke Patrick's Old Man on the Mountain.espD8  Duke Patricks Sickness Alarm.espD9  Duke Patrick's magic you can believe in 4p5.espDA  Duke Patrick's Health Alarm.espDB  Bashed Patch, 0.espDC  Streamline 3.1.espDD  Duke Patricks Script Effect Silencer Gold Edition.esp

[Edit] Forgot to comment on the poll. It may be a bit late, but I've voted for holding a key down to activate. You may get a few people unable to figure this out at first (just a case of RTFM), but in the long run I believe it's easier. You'll be saving the world thousands of clicks! Having a key to toggle it on/off while in the alchemy screen would also be great, with a message (NOT a popup) telling it's state.

As for substitutable ingredients, I can see pros & cons. You don't want to have to create dozens of different Restore Fatigue formulas, but at the same time you don't want to use up ingredients making Restore Fatigue that can also be used for something rarer and more useful like Restore Magicka or Invisibility. Maybe define a list of the substitutable ingredients for each ingredient in a formula?