[Beta/Relz] Alchemical Formulas

Post » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:59 pm

Haama, this is an excellent mod. Saves thousands of clicks, another one to join my favourite list of labour-saving mods with Speedy Looting, Herbalism, etc.

A quick question about the Alchemy skill advancement calculations, if I may. Using the formulas does advance my skill, but only a fraction as fast as creating the potions myself. Does your mod have a fixed advancement rate, or does it calculate it according to your skill levelling settings (e.g. from OOO)? Is there a way for me to alter it?

The slower rate is probably more realistic (otherwise I can just sit down and gain 10 levels in a few minutes), but my Alchemy's at 30 now, so I hate to think how slow it'll be to level at 80.

Complicating the situatuion, I use hundreds of mods - here's my mod list if it would be of any use:

Shouldn't matter - I'm using an OBSE function that (is supposed) to increment it as if you've made a potion, including any skill rate modifications. I'll check it out tomorrow. Some quick suggestions, though - use TES4View to make sure no other mods modify the COBL scripts, especially the cobRUE... scripts. Also, it is possible (though unlikely) that one of your mods is adding extra skill points with the same OBSE function every time you make a potion.
[Edit] Forgot to comment on the poll.

Oops, forgot about the poll - it should be a http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=873139&st=0 thanks to Elys, and I plan on adding a "Write Formula" button to the Alchemy screen.
As for substitutable ingredients, I can see pros & cons. You don't want to have to create dozens of different Restore Fatigue formulas, but at the same time you don't want to use up ingredients making Restore Fatigue that can also be used for something rarer and more useful like Restore Magicka or Invisibility. Maybe define a list of the substitutable ingredients for each ingredient in a formula?

Why not both :) I had planned a button or two to automatically guess other ingredients, as well as a way to define your own list. Still sorting out a living schedule to do all of this, though (RL) :nothanks: (me)
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Jessie Butterfield
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:42 am

Haama, I've been using this mod for a while now and I love it. It works perfectly. :intergalactic: :hugs: :tops: Probably impossible but... it won't hurt to ask, will it? :angel:

I'm using GM58's Portable Ingredients Sorter Cobl (PISC) Is there a way for AF to query and retrieve the necessary ingrients from there?
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Frank Firefly
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:20 am

Haama, I've been using this mod for a while now and I love it. It works perfectly. :intergalactic: :hugs: :tops: Probably impossible but... it won't hurt to ask, will it? :angel:

I'm using GM58's Portable Ingredients Sorter Cobl (PISC) Is there a way for AF to query and retrieve the necessary ingrients from there?

It's long been planned, but I need to bribe RL for some more time ;)
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Breanna Van Dijk
 
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Post » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:15 pm

Complex Recipes:

Shield, Reflect Damage, Restore Fatigue
Flour (from Salmo COBL)
Green Stain Cup Cap or Strawberry
Cinnabar Polypore Red Cap
Wolf Meat (good) or Bog Beacon Ascp Cap (Damages Endurance 1 p 1 sec)

Shield, Restore Magic & Fatigue
Flax, Bog Beacon, Blackberry, Bread

Fire Shield, Shock Shield, Resotre Fatigue
Crab meat, Lettuce, Corn, Rice

Reflect Damage, Restore Fatigue
Flour, Strawberry

Shield, Nighteye, Restore Fatigue
Bonemeal, Carrot, Flax, Potato (or Orange or Tomato)

Dispel, Resist Disease, Restore Fatigue
Bergamot Seeds, Graqes, Sweetroll

Invisibility, Restore Magic & Fatigue
Tinder Polypore Cap, stinkhorn cap, Blackberry, Bread loaf
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Cassie Boyle
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:32 am

Complex Recipes:

Shield, Reflect Damage, Restore Fatigue
Flour (from Salmo COBL)
Green Stain Cup Cap or Strawberry
Cinnabar Polypore Red Cap
Wolf Meat (good) or Bog Beacon Ascp Cap (Damages Endurance 1 p 1 sec)

Shield, Restore Magic & Fatigue
Flax, Bog Beacon, Blackberry, Bread

Fire Shield, Shock Shield, Resotre Fatigue
Crab meat, Lettuce, Corn, Rice

Reflect Damage, Restore Fatigue
Flour, Strawberry

Shield, Nighteye, Restore Fatigue
Bonemeal, Carrot, Flax, Potato (or Orange or Tomato)

Dispel, Resist Disease, Restore Fatigue
Bergamot Seeds, Graqes, Sweetroll

Invisibility, Restore Magic & Fatigue
Tinder Polypore Cap, stinkhorn cap, Blackberry, Bread loaf


What point are you trying to make here? The mod doesn't add recipes, you make those yourself.
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Wayland Neace
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:14 am

Complex Recipes:

Shield, Reflect Damage, Restore Fatigue
Flour (from Salmo COBL)
Green Stain Cup Cap or Strawberry
Cinnabar Polypore Red Cap
Wolf Meat (good) or Bog Beacon Ascp Cap (Damages Endurance 1 p 1 sec)

Shield, Restore Magic & Fatigue
Flax, Bog Beacon, Blackberry, Bread

Fire Shield, Shock Shield, Resotre Fatigue
Crab meat, Lettuce, Corn, Rice

Reflect Damage, Restore Fatigue
Flour, Strawberry

Shield, Nighteye, Restore Fatigue
Bonemeal, Carrot, Flax, Potato (or Orange or Tomato)

Dispel, Resist Disease, Restore Fatigue
Bergamot Seeds, Graqes, Sweetroll

Invisibility, Restore Magic & Fatigue
Tinder Polypore Cap, stinkhorn cap, Blackberry, Bread loaf

:hehe: Thanks Tamara, that's something else I've been meaning to add back to the mod. Can you think of some stories to go with these recipes? :icecream:
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SiLa
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:05 am

What point are you trying to make here? The mod doesn't add recipes, you make those yourself.

Simply Sharing...
Someone was asking for some recipes, so I thought I would put in a few that I figured out.
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Astargoth Rockin' Design
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:08 am

:hehe: Thanks Tamara, that's something else I've been meaning to add back to the mod. Can you think of some stories to go with these recipes? :icecream:

Okay, I'll try.
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Céline Rémy
 
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Post » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:49 pm

The latest COBL (v1.58) includes a major fix for low levels of Alchemy/Luck and certain combinations of apparati - if you haven't already, http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21104!!!
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Albert Wesker
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:30 am

I'm not completely sure whether it's worth bug-reporting on versions that are set to become obsolete anyway, but...

Somewhere in the last few months (the time between playing Oblivion for me), something appears to have semi-broken the alchemical formulas. If I make a single alchemical formula it works just dandy. No problems
When I make a second alchemical formula instead of getting a useful formula like "Damage Health" I just get the base object. I.e. the message "Alchemical Formula added" pops up and there's a thoroughly useless parchment called "Alchemical Formula" is now in my inventory.
At this point life starts getting *really* annoying.
Sometimes the game will CTD at the point where the blank formula is added. Mostly it doesn't.
I can exit the alchemy screen normally
If I exit the inventory like this I will automatically CTD.
If I click (activate/use) the alchemical formula I will automatically CTD.
I can drop the blank formula at which point things appear to run normally (normally for me being rather unstable anyway, so I'm not sure whether it's causing any more problems like this). On the other hand, sometimes mousing-over the blank formula also seems to cause a CTD.

The best solution appears to be to make a single formula, and then *exiting* the inventory screen.
Somehow this seems to "reset" something, so when I go back into my inventory and make a new formula I get a real formula. Mostly. Maybe 80-90 percent of the time. Sometimes I still get the blank formula at which point: "hello CTD!".
Needless to say that this is making alchemy rather slower and more frustrating, rather than faster and less frustrating.

I tried rolling back to the old potion mixer in the hope that would fix it (it didn't have any effect) and I am considering making a clean reinstall of alchemical formulas to see if that helps.

Load order is appended at the end of the post, if there's any other info you want/need, just tell me. If it's something you are sure will be fixed in the new version then, uhh, well, I'd kinda still like to use the formulas now *as well as* later, but it's your mod.

Vac

P.S. And of course anyone browsing through is welcome to make suggestions for improving my load-order: more stability would be good... :rolleyes:

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Edit: Just to make this clear: Alchemical Formulas used to work a charm and as the mod hasn't been updated for quite a long time, so it seems rather more likely to me that something *else* has broken Alchemical Formulas. I'm also using DarkUId DarnN, if that's relevant (as it does affect some aspects of the various menus :shrug: )

Works fine for me with COBL v161 (and shouldn't have changed in v162). I changed a few of the basic functions - their requirements should still be pretty low (OBSE v14 and Pluggy v73), but maybe I threw in a function that makes the requirement higher. What OBSE and Pluggy versions are you using? Works for me with v16 and v122.

As for the crashes themselves - yeah, that all pretty much stems from having a potion/enchantment/whatever with an empty set of effects. Just need to figure out why the effects aren't going through. For now, I'm assuming a function call is stalling a script somewhere.

Clean install - shouldn't do anything. Everything in the scripts is temporary - really all the information is stored with COBL.

[oh] - If you do have 16/122, exactly what steps are you taking? Any potions in particular? Any apparati? I got it working with a Restore Fatigue and Restore Intelligence potion, one after the other without leaving the Alchemy screen.

Updates - I don't expect v17 anytime soon (unless you want to fly to scruggsy's school and get him kicked out for a week long party/bonfire in their UC :evil:). I'm looking into a few Pluggy updates, maybe even adding string mapped arrays. If that doesn't work, then I'll add my own version of string maps to RUE (aka, a functional activator) and just use that.
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Jason Rice
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:53 am

My apologies for posting in the wrong thread. :banghead:

Works fine for me with COBL v161 (and shouldn't have changed in v162). I changed a few of the basic functions - their requirements should still be pretty low (OBSE v14 and Pluggy v73), but maybe I threw in a function that makes the requirement higher. What OBSE and Pluggy versions are you using? Works for me with v16 and v122.


I've got OBSE v16 and Pluggy v123 (haven't kept up with pluggy developments, I should check what's happening there).

As for the crashes themselves - yeah, that all pretty much stems from having a potion/enchantment/whatever with an empty set of effects. Just need to figure out why the effects aren't going through. For now, I'm assuming a function call is stalling a script somewhere.


So the point is to avoid getting that "empty" recipe in the first case.

Clean install - shouldn't do anything. Everything in the scripts is temporary - really all the information is stored with COBL.


Well my hope is/was that something in the save might get cleared out that way, but there's no way I want to do a clean reinstall of Cobl if that can be avoided...

[oh] - If you do have 16/122, exactly what steps are you taking? Any potions in particular? Any apparati? I got it working with a Restore Fatigue and Restore Intelligence potion, one after the other without leaving the Alchemy screen.


16/123, and this happens with *any* two formulas I've tried in any order. It appears to simply be the second formula where the problem becomes apparent. I absolutely cannot make a second formula successfully without exiting the inventory, and even that doesn't guarantee the next formula will work properly. I have a full set of novice equipment. The only way to guarantee smooth use of the alchemical formulas is to make a formula, save, exit, reload, make a formula, save, exit and so forth. That might be smooth for the formulas, but it's hardly smooth for gameplay.
Sorry, I'm not sure what else I should be describing: the alchemy process is quite intuitive and the alchemical formulas process are also quite intuitive: click the quill to start the alchemy process, select "yes" when asked if you want to write down the formula and then click the formula to use it. :shrug: As I said: it worked perfectly when I played before.
Oh, wait, I'm not sure I've tried making two formulas in a row *without* exiting the alchemy screen. My play style is (was) to make a formula, exit the alchemy screen, use the formula, make a new formula, use that, and so on. I'll see whether I can make two or more in a row without exiting the alchemy screen.
Have you any idea why exiting the inventory screen (even switching to the other journal tabs seems to work) would help most of the time (but intiguingly not *all* the time)?

Basically, do you have any further suggestions on how to bugfix this short of the one-by-one de- and re-activation of all my mods? Obviously I'd start with the ones I know affect the alchemy process in some way, but there's quite a few of them...

Vac
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john palmer
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:06 am

My apologies for posting in the wrong thread. :banghead:

No problem, it's been how long since I've posted here :)
16/123, and this happens with *any* two formulas I've tried in any order. It appears to simply be the second formula where the problem becomes apparent. I absolutely cannot make a second formula successfully without exiting the inventory, and even that doesn't guarantee the next formula will work properly. I have a full set of novice equipment. The only way to guarantee smooth use of the alchemical formulas is to make a formula, save, exit, reload, make a formula, save, exit and so forth....

The last part almost certainly means a script is stalling. The first part - I'm not sure. If it's a matter of Alchemical Formulas resetting some information to get the next formula correct - it should be when you exit and re-enter the Alchemy screen, not inventory. However, if it's simply a matter of avoiding CTDs then exiting the inventory makes sense... it might also be a script that only runs during MenuMode? I'll have to look in the morning...

As for what to do now, if the bug's there then it can come back. Only thing to do now is to track it down. I can send you a test copy of COBL that will spit out which scripts are being called, and I can hopefully easily track down which script is causing problems.
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Sheila Reyes
 
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Post » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:10 pm

No problem, it's been how long since I've posted here :)

The last part almost certainly means a script is stalling. The first part - I'm not sure. If it's a matter of Alchemical Formulas resetting some information to get the next formula correct - it should be when you exit and re-enter the Alchemy screen, not inventory. However, if it's simply a matter of avoiding CTDs then exiting the inventory makes sense... it might also be a script that only runs during MenuMode? I'll have to look in the morning...

As for what to do now, if the bug's there then it can come back. Only thing to do now is to track it down. I can send you a test copy of COBL that will spit out which scripts are being called, and I can hopefully easily track down which script is causing problems.


I'll check whether I can make two formulas in a row without leaving the alchemy screen. Feel free to send me a test copy of Cobl if it'll help, evidently no-one else has met this problem before (or they never posted about it if they did). I'll also try disabling some of the most likely contenders for conflict in my modlist and see whether that helps.

Do you still have my e-mail from when I had issues with keychain?

Vac

Edit: Just tested making two alchemy formulas in a row without exiting the alchemy screen. No problem. Then I exited back to the inventory, used a formula and then re-used the alchemists quill to make a new formula and there was my new "alchemical formula" made.
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koumba
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:48 am

Ugh! :banghead:
Oblivion and it's quirks.
The buggy behaviour has now gone. Maybe it'll return, maybe it won't. I could be back in twenty minutes saying it's messing up again... :shakehead:

For the record my bugfixing procedure was: I tested what I reported in the last post and was still getting dummy formulas.

I then deactivated bgMagicAlchemy.esp (position CD in the load order posted) and tried again. Still the same.

I then swapped potion mixer back to version 2, because, well, why not? Still the same.

I then deactivated bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp (position CE in the LO) and tried again. Still the same.

I reactivated bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp and tried again (again, why not?) and was suddenly able to make half a dozen formulas without any trouble.

Does this make sense to me? No. :confused:

All bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp changes are GMST values for iMagicMaxPotionsNovice and the other mastery levels and GMST values for iSoulLevelValuePetty and the other soul gems, so I can't see how it could be having an effect on Alchemical formulas...

Sorry for the bother and if I can help with any testing anytime just give me a shout... I'll be sure to post back if this rears it's ugly head again.

Vac
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NAtIVe GOddess
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:27 am

From what you're saying this
I then deactivated bgMagicAlchemy.esp (position CD in the load order posted) and tried again. Still the same.

is still deactivated. RUE grabs quite a few Alchemy and skill level game settings. Does this mod change any of them? What does it do?
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TWITTER.COM
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:07 am

From what you're saying this

is still deactivated. RUE grabs quite a few Alchemy and skill level game settings. Does this mod change any of them? What does it do?


Yes, it is still inactive as I found the nerfing of my potions a little undesirable.

It changes other game settings (GMSTs): fPotionT3AleMagMult, fPotionT2AleDurMult, fPotionT1AleDurMult, fPotionT1AleMagMult, fPotionT1CalDurMult, fPotionT1RetDurMult and fPotionGoldValueMult.
No other changes.
It also adds new GMSTs with names like fPotionT1CalMagMult, fPotionMortPestleMult and fPotionT1RetMagMult, with T2 and T3 versions of the Cal and Ret GMSTs. How these new GMSTs get used in the game I have no clue. All this file has are these GMSTs. :shrug:

Vac
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Oscar Vazquez
 
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Post » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:53 pm

Yes, it is still inactive as I found the nerfing of my potions a little undesirable.

It changes other game settings (GMSTs): fPotionT3AleMagMult, fPotionT2AleDurMult, fPotionT1AleDurMult, fPotionT1AleMagMult, fPotionT1CalDurMult, fPotionT1RetDurMult and fPotionGoldValueMult.
No other changes.
It also adds new GMSTs with names like fPotionT1CalMagMult, fPotionMortPestleMult and fPotionT1RetMagMult, with T2 and T3 versions of the Cal and Ret GMSTs. How these new GMSTs get used in the game I have no clue. All this file has are these GMSTs. :shrug:

Vac

Adds? Those are normal GMSTs... I'm downloading it now and will take a look...
Eck, that's right - some game settings (and effect settings) don't have a FormID. When you edit them the CS gives them a FormID. Let me see if this mod is the cause of the script crash...

Nope, just got it without the mod. OK, now that I can replicate it I can look into. Expect a fix soon.
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louise fortin
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:51 am

This is yet another mod I am hoping pluggy gets fixed for. :banghead:
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Claire Vaux
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:02 am

Adds? Those are normal GMSTs... I'm downloading it now and will take a look...
Eck, that's right - some game settings (and effect settings) don't have a FormID. When you edit them the CS gives them a FormID. Let me see if this mod is the cause of the script crash...

Nope, just got it without the mod. OK, now that I can replicate it I can look into. Expect a fix soon.


Great!
I'm really curious what causes the problem.

Vac
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Natalie Taylor
 
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Post » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:51 pm

Great!
I'm really curious what causes the problem.

Vac

In Stephen King's "The Stand" - there's a character that has an unnatural ability to go out into the wastelands and bring back the most exotic weaponry. One day he finds a nuclear bomb and brings it back, only to have it detonate and kill damn near everyone...

I kind-of feel like that, only I find bugs...

So, this is what I've found so far - when you create a potion with a formula, it stores all of the information of the potion on a COBL temporary potion (xx000F13). If you create the same potion in the Alchemy menu right after, it will give you the COBL potion instead of an extra copy of the alchemy-created potion. The Writer only expects alchemy-created potions (clones), so it completely overlooks the added COBL potion and passes an empty array to the Setup activator. I never expected this, so the Setup happily chugs along without a potion to base the effects on and ends up creating a formula with no effects.

Let me know if this doesn't describe your situation. I'm going to run a few more tests to make sure this is the only situation, but it describes the bug I've found so far. [done the tests - pretty sure this is the only scenario]

This should be a pretty easy fix - just add a untype-able character to the name of the COBL potion. Names don't match so it's never used by the Alchemy menu (theoretically, will need to test this).
Looks like its the effects that determine whether it's used or not? Might explain why all of the vanilla potions are so odd compared to alchemy-created potions.
That fix isn't going to work either - if I remove all of the effects from the COBL potion the alchemy-creation still adds it to the player with the old effects. If I add a SEFF effect, same thing. *sigh* It's definitely the problem, though - if I change the name of the potion compared to the last alchemy-created potion it doesn't use the COBL potion and correctly creates a new alchemy-created potion.
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Angel Torres
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:42 am

In Stephen King's "The Stand" - there's a character that has an unnatural ability to go out into the wastelands and bring back the most exotic weaponry. One day he finds a nuclear bomb and brings it back, only to have it detonate and kill damn near everyone...

I kind-of feel like that, only I find bugs...


Hahahah, if you're a character in a Stephen King novel then you have my deepest sympathies and it was nice knowing you! :touched:

So, this is what I've found so far - when you create a potion with a formula, it stores all of the information of the potion on a COBL temporary potion (xx000F13). If you create the same potion in the Alchemy menu right after, it will give you the COBL potion instead of an extra copy of the alchemy-created potion. The Writer only expects alchemy-created potions (clones), so it completely overlooks the added COBL potion and passes an empty array to the Setup activator. I never expected this, so the Setup happily chugs along without a potion to base the effects on and ends up creating a formula with no effects.

Let me know if this doesn't describe your situation. I'm going to run a few more tests to make sure this is the only situation, but it describes the bug I've found so far. [done the tests - pretty sure this is the only scenario]


Right, that was a piece of pertinent info I should have thought of and put in, shouldn't I? Yes, the potions I make are all much the same as I am doing this stuff in combo with the alchemy sorter. Grab all ingredients for damage health, exit the alchemy sorter, make lots of damage health potions/recipes. So, yes, this sounds like exactly my problem.

That fix isn't going to work either - if I remove all of the effects from the COBL potion the alchemy-creation still adds it to the player with the old effects. If I add a SEFF effect, same thing. *sigh* It's definitely the problem, though - if I change the name of the potion compared to the last alchemy-created potion it doesn't use the COBL potion and correctly creates a new alchemy-created potion.


So, as a user I can use the "fix" of just renaming the new potion before I make the new recipe?
I am curious, presumably the data gets flushed (most of the time) when I exit the inventory screen as four times out of five I can avoid the problem by exiting the inventory screen. Can you replicate that "flushing" to clear the old data?

Vac
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Charlie Ramsden
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:37 am

So, as a user I can use the "fix" of just renaming the new potion before I make the new recipe?

Yes, or make a completely different potion. I figured out the fix - I was trying to "reset" the wrong COBL potion. I'll include the fix in the next COBL, as well as make sure none of the other COBL potions can be made through Alchemy.
I am curious, presumably the data gets flushed (most of the time) when I exit the inventory screen as four times out of five I can avoid the problem by exiting the inventory screen. Can you replicate that "flushing" to clear the old data?

I didn't get the same results.Test it, but otherwise I'm assuming Occam's Razor and that you were less likely to make the same potion when you exited and re-entered the inventory menu than when you stayed in the inventory menu :shrug:
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leni
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:01 am

Yes, or make a completely different potion. I figured out the fix - I was trying to "reset" the wrong COBL potion. I'll include the fix in the next COBL, as well as make sure none of the other COBL potions can be made through Alchemy.

I didn't get the same results.Test it, but otherwise I'm assuming Occam's Razor and that you were less likely to make the same potion when you exited and re-entered the inventory menu than when you stayed in the inventory menu :shrug:


OK, I'll be sure to sidestep the issue until it gets fixed in a COBL release. Thanks for that!

Vac
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Milad Hajipour
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:19 am

Got a quick question, if I remember correctly the RUE can handle formulas/lists with 'alternative materials'. Is there a way to create a formula with a list alternative materials?

Right now I got two of the same formulas, well the effects are the same. Only one ingredient is different and for the purpose of the effects it's the same. So I got two formulas that do the same, have the same name and require (almost) the same ingredients.

Oh and it's been a very long time but I recall seeing or reading about pre-made formulas or something. Am I missing something here cause I can't seem to find anything about them (either in readme or on download page)? :unsure:

-kyoma
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gandalf
 
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Post » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:13 am

From the Cobl thread

New Version: 1.66: Misc. Stuff
* Various [Haama]
--* Recipe Updater Engine Bugfix - Writing a formula with the same name, effects, etc. of a formula you just used would result in receiving a blank formula and receiving a "changing" potion. Will no longer receive the potion, and therefore will no longer receive the blank formula.


So is this the update?

I annoyed myself last night when after making a few hundred potions and not saving since before I started the session I managed to create an effectless recipe and suffered a CTD. I'll have to make them all over again, but at least this hopefully means one "mistake" shouldn't risk a CTD.

Vac
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Ernesto Salinas
 
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