It's because Stealth is more than just a thief. Alchemy is a science, it is like chemistry for cavemen. There is nothing mystical about it, a poisonous mushroom is not 'enchanted' it is just venomous. A thief may use alchemy for invisibility, or nighteye, or chameleon, or speed, or acrobatics, or health, or magicka if it is a mage/thief hybrid. An assassin would use it for all of these and poisons like Paralysis, damage health, etc. A mage would almost never fight hand to hand so it would only need potions for restoring magicka and health.

When it boils down to it look at Oblivion. What character was most likely to make a bunch of potions? A mage, because it was a magic school. Would he use a fortify blade potion? No as he casts spells. Would he use a poison? No, he casts spells. Who uses most of the potions that can be made? A stealthy character.

The same thing happened in real life history. Those who were once hailed as witches with magical potions resurfaced as doctors with medicine. The world of Nirn merely evolved intellectually, and sees Alchemy as a science, not an art.

Excuse me while I go a little stealthy and make some potions...

Alchemy? Stealth? That makes so much sense as putting sugar into a hamburguer. Alchemy is a magic skill though and though.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one. At least, in my opinion.

The fact that there is less skills ussualy means that the fewer are even more important. Alchemy like Magic I expect a huge overhaul. I also think they will tie stealthy potions possibly thinks like "Alchemic Bombs, Traps, and whatever else you can think of that would make alchemy cool. I mean come on... the people who are working on alchemy are def thinking of what would make it awesome??

Pete said on twitter that he spent many a lunch with one of the devs planning the alchemy system because its one of his favorite things to do. Its well looked after. Don't worry.

Think of the stealth class as characters who prepare for a situation ahead of time so they can avoid conflict. What better way to prepare than making a bunch of potions/poisons for any situation that may arise. Alchemy itself is not magic because it does not take magicka to cast or become inaccessible while silenced.... in our world alchemy was practiced without the existence of magic as well so I think that might be part of a case for the decision if you want to get "anol retentive, stubborn, obnoxious" about it

Magic has enchanting, fighters has smiting and thieves has alchemy.
Thieves cover all stealth categories including archers, rangers , assassins and thieves.
Again this is just a grouping who might be related to underlying attributes.

Face it archers and assassins was the main alchemy users in Oblivion, mages mostly used restore magic potions

With perks i'm sure it will be specialisation on poisons, utility potions like feather and invisibility, buffs and healing / restore is probably another specialisation

OP is right. TES is gonna continue to be "streamlined" until we have 3 skills: combat, stealth, and magic. Getu used to it guys.

'Chemistry for cavemen?' Well, not exactly, but I get your point.

The truth is though, that the argument you make for the thief/assasin archetype, can really be made for any variation of the three core character types as well. Thats the problem with alchemy. It doesn't really fit anywhere, because as a role-player there could be any number of reasons that you could imagine, of why your character would be adept in alchemy. So in that case you have to look at where its most suited--and since its scientific in nature it should logically be placed in an intellectual's skillset, which brings us back to mage.

I don't think that I understand what you mean here.


I understand that part, but poisoning is a feature of Alchemy, not the other way around. One can know Alchemy and make a nasty poison, but knowing how to mix poison does not teach you how to mix an invisibility potion.

Those that were hailed as witches were generally killed and did not resurface (they weren't witches). I do understand the idea of science being thought of as magical by those that can't fathom how it works ~that's true of any technology that is advanced enough; but how does this apply here to Stealth?

Hearing fail!

He didn't say that Alchemy doesn't matter, he said that they moved Alchemy from Magic to Stealth and that that move doesn't matter that much.

Its probably mechanically true :shrug:; but disturbing none the less.

You have to convert spoken to written to get it right.. We are treating it as stealth.. the fact we placed it in stealth doesnt matter any more as the skill sets blend together now.. alchemy is the most magical of the stealth skills.

Sugar buns...sounds delicious.

If they have to have only 6 skills for each category, Alchemy would fit stealth better than any of the other magic skills.

I agree with you about that...sugar buns do sound delicious. :blink:

Alchemy, in Tamriel, is basically herbalism, or pharmaceutical, or what-you-will. You're right, alchemy is supposed to be an intense ritual spell.

Strict Magi can't become wealthy, from alchemy. A Thief, on the other hand, has theft and alchemy, to make them rich...

With alchemy's removal, Magic is comprised of psychic spells, alone, which is interesting I guess.

This. Pete said alchemy is well looked after. He personally made sure it was.

In the same way Speechcraft apply to Stealth? When you talked to someone in Morrowind/Oblivion and raised your speechcraft skill, did you ever think "oh boy, I'm sure a master thief managing to talk to people!"? The Stealth skill group have since Morrowind also functioned as a Misc skill group.


Indeed. The 3 skill groups doesn't really matter any more.

I have a good reason for it being in stealth.

Alchemy is not magic. It is using items that have special properties to create effects. It's a science if anything, and it is actually a skill which would require dextrousity in the preparation of ingredients and such. Maybe not a terribly strong case, but makes as much sense as a fighter being intrinsically better at building weapons. Also, there are many reasons a stealth character would use alchemy. Poisoning enemies, creating various alchemical weapons, invisibility/nighteye potions for self, health potions since they are not combat oriented etc. Mages don't need to do this because they have magic for all that.

it isnt an important part of the game.
it will still be in.
harden the hell up.

Well... :hehe:, I never noticed in Oblivion, and in all the years I've owned Morrowind (and it's expansions) ~I've yet to play the game for more than 40 minutes total.

I could never make up my mind wether I considered magic a part of stealth or magic. It was always a shady business, but you could make potions. Todd didn't say that Alchemy doesn't matter, they just put it in the stealth category instead. Probably for the sake of balance.

well, most modern use of 'alchemy' is in labs or in the making of the drug called crystal meth.
pretty shady if you ask me.

I thought it was more like, "you won't be a millionare when selling potions and poisons". I haven't heard anything that says that alchemy will be less powerful, only that the potions and poisons aren't that valuable anymore.

Which in turn is used by thieves. I SEE THE CONNECTION NOW!!!

In all seriousness the looseness in the connection of some skills to categories is why Todd was saying it doesn't matter that much anymore. They are prob moving away from this.