I don't think what Todd Howard meant to say was that "achemy doesn't matter anymore", but that which category the skill is placed in doesn't matter much anymore. I know I misunderstood at first too, but after hearing the full answer, I think saying that the distinction between magic, stealth and combat doesn't matter much anymore is a more logical interpretation, because in past Elder Scrolls games, this was primarily used together with the class system, wherein a class could specialize in one of the three categories, which gave bonuses to skills under it. But since the class system has been removed, it's really not important anymore. I guess the answer was not worded the best way it could have been, since it caused a misunderstanding, but that just goes to show that sometimes, one needs to pause to think about these things.



Actually, I've always found the idea of alchemy as a magic skill a little strange too, after all, you're not actually casting any spells, nor are you really doing anything overtly supernatural. You're just mixing two or more ingredients to get a potion with a desired effect. I suppose you could argue that the effects themselves are magical in nature, because no matter what combination of herbs you use in real life, you probably won't get a mixture that lets you breathe underwater or glow in the dark. But practicing alchemy in itself doesn't seem to require specifically being skilled in magic. The way I see it, it would just require knowing what ingredients have what effect and how to mix them to get the best results, but you don't need actual magic to use it. And if you look at it from another perspective, there's some logic to making alchemy a stealth skill since it includes poison making, and I'm assuming that's still in the game, and traditionally, the use of poisons is associated with assassins, who are generally stealth characters. Alone, I wouldn't say it justifies alchemy being a stealth skill, but together with other factors Bethesda no doubt considered, I think it supports the choice. Of course, that sort of thing doesn't matter that much anyway, once the class system is removed.

But in any case, this is an issue of game mechanics, really, Bethesda wanted to ensure that each category had six skills, so they put alchemy into stealth, being as magic already had five magic schools and enchanting, or would you say enchanting somehow fits stealth better? If one skill that used to be a magic skill needs to go into stealth, than alchemy is really the only option where it can in any way be argued that it's appropriate.

As far as alchemy goes, I have seen many an RPG character that loosely sits within the thief/rogue/stealth branch that would use knowledge of natural chemicals... Rangers, Monks, Tinkerers, Assasins...

Sure you might find mages that are learned in the science of chemistry, but there is no rule in TES that prevents a warrior or caster from improving rogue skills, quite the contrary, so i fail to see why it matters which "constelation" the skill falls under.

That said, I hope alchemy in TES:V is even more complex and fun than previous TES games. I plan to master both alchemy and enchanting and have at least a modest skill level in smithing

Your definately wrong, add the context of the 20 seconds before what you quoted and its pretty obvious he is saying its not important that its in the stealth category because classes are gone and you can skill up any skill to increase your level.

In high fantasy, Alchemy is often just another magical discipline; One could consider it a form of sorcery. In Fantasy Fiction (including RPGs), the alchemist (like the wizard), is seen as knowing occult natural laws and how to harness or manipulate them. An alchemist typically (:lol:) can duplicate the effects of a magical spell ~Like shrinking, or invisibility... Basically he creates magical drugs. The line between what is magic and mundane to us shifts over time, but we can't discard that making an invisibility or shrinking potion is magical. There is even implied spell casting over the mixtures while they brew. In the absolute minimum... Alchemy is not taught nor improved by general thievery, and vice versa.

Its plausible that poison mixing is a subset of Alchemy, and logical that Alchemy is not a subset of poisoning. An Alchemist can make a simple poison, but a thief should not be able to make potions that turn you invisible or stick to walls, or shrink you. An Alchemist could make really nasty poisons with magical side effects ~IMO thieves should not have that talent.
Its realistic that thieves might know the recipe for a few poisons however.

You have to put it into context, here is what was said exactly.

Are you going to be able to craft spells, potions, and other items?

"We do have crafting within each discipline now. We do have smithing, enchanting is back as a skill, and then alchemy we're sort of treating as - it doesn't matter that much anymore (stealth/magic/combat categories) - but it's sort of in our stealth category now. We have a blended skill list, so alchemy is sort of the most magical of the stealth skills. And then we have lots of other things that are NOT skill based that you can craft, like cooking and things like that.

There is a lot of that, and more emphasis on it this time around."

He's saying it doesn't matter that it's in the stealth category because they have a blended skill list.

( Transcript taken from http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1164509-edited-transcript-of-the-gi-podcast/ )

Sounds like its going to be Oblivion mixed with Arx Fatalis; Not a bad combination IMO.

Arx had all of that, Cooking, Weapon forging (you even had to mine the ore and use molds to cast the metal; and you could mix metals).

**I don't much care for the the idea of things you can craft that are not skill based though.

Alchemy on stealth is dumb, Alchemy on magic is dumb, alchemy on warrior is dumb.
Alchemy belongs to noone and to everyone, alchemy is not tied to any class or archtype.
Alchemy is tied to intelligence and maybe intuition and should be a general skill that belongs to none, like climbing, running eating and sleeping or Genral Perception or simply perception if it existed in the game.

Alchemy as employed is a misconception that mage should own it because they think more. Blarght.

The thief will make sleeping potion poison and smoking bombs
The warrior will make strenght potions, healing potions and honing oils
The mage will make increase magika potion, concentration potions and use them for enchantments

The hell anyone can use any potion the other will do, all of those are circunstantial based on skill and need.

Alchemy is not strictly chemistry either, and its also not purely recipe following ~anyone can follow a recipe.

Put another way... Its like a man that can decide the effect wanted, and craft a formula that achieves it, be it turning your skin green, or causing increased sweating, curing psoriasis, :shrug:; making you lighter than air... Anyone can drink the stuff, but only an Alchemist can formulate it.... Now Imagine Oliver, in his pickpocket in class, can you imagine Fagin teaching him levitation potions? (I can BTW, if the recipe was stolen, but I can't imagine him teaching the science behind behind devising the recipe).

And... where do warriors do so? Warriors BUY potions.

Personally, I have no problem with alchemy being a stealth skill. In that way, every "archetype" can have its crafting skill. And of course, mages can still use it.

One thing I'm a little afraid of is that alchemy and smithing will make you level up to fast without getting much stronger as all skills now are major skills in practise.
Alchemy in Oblivion was dangerous as major skill if you made many potions for training and sale. It was not very usefull before level 50 and become real powerful at 75, everything before was mostly training.

Complain...JUST COMPLAIN!

Alchemy are for mages. Period!

*cough* poisons *cough*... *cough* as-Todd-says-categories-don't-matter-anyway *cough*

Oh, man. I must have a cold.

Edit* also, Alchemy requires 0 knowledge of magic. So, I don't see why it's for mages only.
Enchanting makes sense for Mages because it requires knowledge of soul trapping and how to imbue a item with a spell
Smithing makes sense for the Warrior because they need to keep their gear in shape, they are generally stronger and more adept to such things
Alchemy makes since for the Thief because stealth has always been kind of a misc category anyway. As Freddo pointed out when you increase your speechcraft do you say "man, I feel like a stealthy dude" Besides as I said it takes no knowledge of magic to create a potion.

Stealth doesn't necessarily mean stealing. Just acting in a deceiving manner can be interpreted as stealth. With speechcraft you alter the way you speak so the person on the receiving end would be more susceptible to your cause.

Who has a greater need for potions, those who can accomplish the same effects with spells or those who cannot?

As for panic over Todd's remark, have a little faith, baby!

It's been mentioned, but I think the only reason is that Alchemy could arguably fit either magic or stealth, depending on if used to make poisons or potions, and they already had 6 Magic skills.

I believe this is what he meant. Since you can use whatever you want, the division in skills only matters for symmetry.

Then again, I wouldn't be too angry if Alchemy was toned down a bit. Its been totally overpowered in Morrowind. I prefer the way Daggerfall did it. Much more mystical and powerful, yet hard to accomplish.

Exactly. Besides, the skill is still in the game so.... I don't see the problem here?

Just now listened to it, he clearly says there's more emphasis on it this time around, not less.


And Alchemy isn't magic, it's science.

Alchemy is still the more magical of the stealth skills, so seems fine to me.

How is a mage supposed to make use of poisons anyway? Both hands will have spells in them. Now a battlemage... that's a different story.

Poisons are normally used for assassinations, not going in to war. Realistically it could be dangerous because getting poison on yourself could be bad too, and it seems like something that could happen going into battle with a poisoned blade..

I have avoided this topic mostly because the arguments have an illogical premise. But Mango speaks the truth, alchemy is first a science (even if it is a dubious science by today's standards). It was an impractical chemistry that was trying to yield particular results. Here is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy about it.

One thing I am looking forward to is when modders make a mod that gets all the previous ES alchemy ingredients into stores or dungeon lists. The more the merrier.

@ the OP.
If you listen to the podcast properly...you'll realize,that they've put alot more work into it actually.
It sounds like they have spent alot of time in all crafts....i'm looking forward to this.