I may be in a minority here, but as someone who plays an alchemy-heavy game, this made me wince. Alchemy was the 'game-within-the-game' for me; creating the most potent poisons was a vital part of my approach to combat, and the prospect of finding new ingredients added to the appeal of exploration.
Judging by this offhand dismissal, it sounds to me like it'll be phased out by TESVI.

Kinda stretching it, aren't ya? Just a little bit?

Its in the stealth category now, right? Maybe along with potions, you could make smoke bombs or other things that a stealth character could make use of.

I think when he was talking about that, he was referring to the fighter/mage/thief divisions in the skills.

Like, it doesn't particularly matter if Alchemy is a stealth skill or a mage skill.

I have listened to that portion of the podcast about 8 times and to me it sounds like he is talking about the fact that alchemy is a part of stealth, not that he is saying alchemy isn't important anymore. Especially given the context, he affirms that crafting is getting much more focus than in the past Elder Scrolls games. I believe you are mistaken.

lol :facepalm:

It's funny because when I first heard him say that I thought the same thing as you. But after listening to it again, it wasn't alchemy that he was refering to; it was alchemy's placement within the thief skill set.

As in, it doesn't matter much anymore that the skill of alchemy is in the thief skill set because there are no classes anymore.---Whew :thumbsup:

edit: ah I see its already been explained(must have been that extra minute I spent searching for an emoticon :facepalm: )

Alchemy is the most magical stealth skill.
Fear not they love alchemy and plan on making the Witcher 2 not take all the alchemic glory.

This. He says that switching it from magic to stealth doesn't matter. It makes sense because you were much more likely to use it for an assassin then a mage. Plus every school has a crafting skill.

If you need any proof that alchemy still matters, go back and re-read what they said about magical combat.

"Alchemy, we're treating it as....it doesn't matter that much anymore, but it is in our stealth category".


Sounds to me like he's saying it's not as important, but they've put it in the stealth category anyway. If he wanted to say that the category it was in didn't matter, there are a hundred other ways he could've phrased it.

Anyway I am happy to be wrong in this case.

Yeah, it could be that alchemy was such a unique gaming experience in previous TES titles that they are expanding it into other disciplines like enchanting, spellcasting, mining, weaponsmithing, lockpicking... I mean, who knows where this could go? I don't think alchemy is shrinking, I think it is getting smaller in comparison to many other aspects of the game that are growing in response to how well alchemy has worked in the past.

Plus, remember... He said something about hiding the statistics of the game to add to the magic? Maybe alchemy is now going to be based on simply the strength of the ingredient used and how familiar the player is with that ingredient (instead of a numbers system). Of course, all the numbers would still be there in the background.

You know, I'm really starting to like where I think this is all going. And I really hope I have the right idea...

I like now how it's stealth oriented, it implies further uses for assassinations and the like.

I don't understand how Alchemy can even be a thief skill. (unless I'm misreading).
That makes no sense to me.

Even allowing that a thief could greatly benefit from an invisibility potion... Having the innate ability to create one seems kind of absurd to me.
I'm not against a mage/thief style character, but I will be if the thief gains ability in magic for increasing thief based skills.

These skill sets should be utterly separated. The guy that becomes a mage or alchemist is clearly well off enough to not need to work; while the guy that is out thieving all night doesn't have time enough to study the books and experiment. Anyone that actively does both should progress at half the rate of those that focus their 'all' in just one discipline. (less than that if you count sleep)

Come on, he was just talking on the fly - it's not like he had time to sit down and write a press release and choose his words really carefully so the hyper-sensitive official forums couldn't misinterpret him.

The "it doesn't matter that much anymore" was really just to ward off people complaining that Alchemy is a Magic skill, not a Stealth skill.

I agree with how it's handled in game, but I don't agree with the logic behind it. Alchemy is not a "stealthy" skill. It's a magic skill that's often used by stealth characters to add poison to their weapons or make themselves invisible, but it's not dependent on how well you sneak, and it doesn't work better if you sneak while doing it, as opposed to knifing someone in the back or stealing undetected, or pickpockiting.

The fact is, even without classes, most skills can be divided into the Fighter/Mage/Thief archetype. Pure classes (which are very rare) would use only skills from 1 archetype. Most characters are a mix, and furthermore many skills actually straddle the line. Is shortblade (to use an antiquated term) a Fighter Skill, or a Stealth Skill? Depends on what the game makes of it, such as with sneak bonus for shorter weapons.

However, since classes seem to be out, the whole exercise is pointless to discuss. However, they would also have to get rid of Attributes, which some people think they have. The reason this is, is because skills like Sneak are dependent on an Attribute, like Agility. Agility might also govern things like Marksmen, and by the nature of being governed by the same Attribute, they both fall under the same "Stealth" archetype.

No Roland you have to put it in context to what he was trying to explain.

I don't remember exactly word for word, but I remember the moment because like I said, I thought the same as you and listened to it again.

He was kind of laying out the fact that each 'skillset' has its own specialized crafting skill.
-Mage has enchanting
-Warrior has smithing
-Thief has Alchemy

Then in an off-hand remark, as though he were talking to himself, more than anything else, he said, "alchemy...well it doens't matter anymore", but I guarantee you it was in reference to its placement in the Thief skillset.

I haven't heard this podcast, but I'd be shocked if he did not plan his words very very carefully ahead of time.
(or post-recording via edits)

I always felt that the Stealth skills in previous games were far less unified than the Combat and Magic skills. You've got this combination of skills which are useful for stealthy combat, diplomacy, and getting around quickly and undetected. Being a strictly Stealth oriented character seems more of a combination of play-styles than being a strictly Combat or Magic oriented character. So, I don't really see a problem with Alchemy going in there - you could rationalise it as a "lore" type of skill, which could fit with Speechcraft (they're skills which could, in some way, reflect your character's knowledge).

But this might be a pretty idiosyncratic take on how to divide up the skills between character archetypes. :shrug:

Alchemy is in stealth because it lets you do things like poison weapons. At least it did in Oblivion.

He never said Alchemy isn't that important. In fact, he said crafting of all kinds, including alchemy, are more important now. He said that the three categories skills tend to belong to - stealth, combat, and magic - aren't that important anymore.

You're wrong

Don't make me come over there J.

That to me sounds like it doesn't matter how they treat it anymore, not the skill in itself. Its in the stealth category, but it does so many other things it doesn't really matter where you put it.

Oh I agree that Thief is the wrong place for it, but I understand why its there. No other reason than to balance the three skillsets out at 6 skills each with a crafting skill in each.

Not that it matters much anymore though; what, with the lack of classes, but I can still see your issue with it.

I think what he said was an attempt to say, "yeah we know we're squeezing it in here, but it won't really impact anything, because you essentially choose your own class through your gameplay actions and your characters decisions."

Well, I'm sure he had some idea of what he would and would not be willing to answer. But more than that? Surely not to the extent that he had planned to make the parenthetical remark "it doesn't matter that much anymore" in the context of discussing Alchemy, and crafting across the three specialisations Combat, Magic, Stealth.

Alchemy is in the game it is as important as you want to make it for the PC you play.

:poke: