I've always liked using alchemy, and I generally play a stealth oriented archer. So, as alchemy is near and dear to my gamer heart, I'm excited and apprehensive for the way it will be handled in Skyrim.


There hasn't been much news about Alchemy....

However, it was stated somewhere (Gameinformer interview) that Alchemy is now considered a "Stealth" type skill, albeit the most magical of those skills.

I like how alchemy was handled in Oblivion. I like the idea of having equipment to refine potions, and I like the level of customization of potion making had.


There are a few things that could be improved, however.

Firstly, some sort of alchemy sorter. It would be nice for a function to search for ingredients based on effect. When creating potions, having positive/negative effects in different colors would be useful.
Kinda as an addition to this would be some sort of alchemy notebook where it lists all alchemical ingredients known by the player, as well as known effects, and possibly known area's where the ingredient can be found (based on character's travels). That would be helpful in trying to find that one perfect ingredient that you don't have. Also having a better autonaming feature, for those of us too *lazy to name our stuff. As in "potion of (cool thesaurus word)", vs the first effect that happens to be in a potion.


The ability to create and save custom potion formulas. Could possibly be another feature of the 'alchemy notebook'. It's annoying to have to search my ingredients list for my special potions. Having a way to quickly load up the ingredient slots by simply clicking on the name of the formula would be quite nice. Along with this should come the ability to rename, modify, or delete custom formulae. With the whole formulae idea, there is the possibility of having some pre made ones already ingame, found around the world, quest related, possibly stolen; on pieces of paper or in books.


The ability to alter specific ingredient ratios. Having up to four ingredients is a nice for customization, but altering the ratio of one ingredient to another to for example, intensify one particular effect. Would doubtless increase the weight of the potion, and for balance should be limited. For example, I have 2 of ingredient A to 1 ingredient B. A + B results in effects Y and Z. But by having more A, I make effect Z more potent. Possible ways to prevent this from being too overpowered is to tie how much altering a ratio has an effect on potency to skill level. Or, this could be an Alchemy related "Perk".


Add in the concept of using alchemical 'bases' in order to construct a potion. In oblivion, it was ridiculously easy to get a fortune by selling potions. Now, Skyrim could 'fix' this by making custom potions worth less. But making a living as an alchemist should still be a viable way to play. Instead, custom potions could be made slightly more difficult to make by requiring a base. Also, bases could determine the number of ingredient slots, or could have influences on the quality of effects, or both. Water could be a simple base, for example, although using something more unique, like Cyrodillic Brandy, could possibly make a better or more complex potion. Certain bases could also impart a custom benefit, like an additional effect, or a bonus to say, healing effects. Maybe having the possibility to brew bases from lower bases and select ingredients.
The game 'The Witcher' had an interesting alchemy system like this.

Some related perk ideas could be: brewing higher quality bases from lower ones with certain ingredients, allowing bases to have a higher bonus, allowing bases to hold more ingredient slots.


The ability to create special oils for equipment. The Witcher had a great system for combining alchemy with sword-work. Custom oils to coat your blade in order to give it certain properties would be a great tie-in to other skills. How about oils to coat your armor to improve its protection or to reduce wear? It would be cool to brew custom oils to harm certain manners of creatures. Instead of an immediate effect poison, oils would have a longer term but still temporary effect. In order to be implemented with the current alchemy system though, ingredients would probably need an additional 'special or unique' effect (ie. harms undead or something more elegant), or would need specific formulae (which cuts down on the customization aspect). If alchemical bases are introduced, animal or creature fats could fulfill the role (borrowing heavily from the Witcher). Oil creation could be a "Perk" as well.


Harvesting plant ingredients It always annoyed me that the player could fail at picking a flower. Harvesting should always be (or nearly always) successful. This could be balanced by requiring ingredient knowledge (a notebook entry) that could be gained from books or talking to NPCs. Also, having a different mesh for harvested flora (like in the mod Harvest Flora) would be nice for both practicality and immersion.


Some more miscellaneous ideas:

Possibly a perk that increases the amount of ingredients you get from fallen creatures, and from plants.


There were a few other ideas I can't remember right now, but that sums up my hopes and dreams for alchemy.

Just... Yes... please.

Check out this thread I made ages ago, about what I think they should to to improve the game's immersion relating to alchemy:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1156299-in-game-alchemy-manual/

I would like to be able to filter out specific ingredient effects, or choosing if what we make is a poison or a potion. Kinda irked me that I could make a potion thats 75% bad for you but its a potion.
Alternative ways to use a potion, possibly as an ingredient base (mixing potions). Applying poisons in different ways. Weapon or in their sleep, or maybe throwing it at someone and seeing what happens.

As a lover of alcemy also I definately think Skyrims system can be improved and should be improved from what we had in OB. Nice suggestions =)

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1167921-new-poison-effects/
my favorite poison thread.

here's a few poison based books:
http://www.uesp.net/...and_the_Diamond Trust me when I say it has a funny ending...
http://www.uesp.net/..._Game_at_Dinner One of my favorite Morrowind books...
http://www.uesp.net/...bbard_of_Akrash Ends with a powerfull poison...
http://www.uesp.net/...tical_Treachery It may not be about alchemy but it reflexts on some of your ideas... ...and got a usefull way of poisoning someone...

I hope for a system sorta like this: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1164877-a-different-kind-of-alchemy/page__p__17131309__hl__poison__fromsearch__1#entry17131309
when making potions...
that's practically all you need to know how I would prefer Skyrims alchemy...

Well I believe when Todd say thats alchemy has no more same impact as before he mean balancing of it not simplification something like this
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23032
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27610

Also I believe apparatus of different quality and purpose still in game even if alchemy now static, there is not need to be just an generic alchemy workbench for all
Can we still combine different ingredients for potion in classical style or there will be only based on formula from receipt that need to learn?
I believe balancing of alchemy will not ended like removing of spellmaking and adding premade "unique" receipts without of freedom of alchemy brewing.

How effects of ingredient can be explored Is there will be some hidden effects like in Morrowind?
Thats was actually nice feature in morrowind strangely it was removed from Oblivion.

Drink potion will be real time or in inventory pause?
If realtime will be there an idle animation for thats?

Ability to quaff more potions as you get better at Alchemy will be or not?
Thats I believe was planed for Oblivion but by some reason was not done, but thats nice feature and returned by many popular mods in Oblivion
Nice also add screen effects for overusing of potions thats will simulate intoxications for enemy poisons thats can be also applied.

Poisons will last longer on weapon when used by skilled in alchemy assassin?
I think skilled assassin know how to make his poison stay longer not just one-time use.

Can we thrown potion to enemies and environment and the will have different behavior like spells?
Poison gas, flammable oils, explosive bombs, disintegrate equipment acids there is many combinations.


Will there chance of fail when mixing an potion with loosing of ingridiens or making less potent potion or explode burst etc?
Thats will be nice and will actually make Alchemis characters and NPC brewing service be unique and different from others

Can we poison food?
Since there will be cooking why not add such option.

Is there will be common ingredients that can be purchased and rare that need to be found and alchemist NPC will purchase them for better price?


Is flora will change when be harvested?

Is there will be option to brew more potion from one alchemy session like in this mod
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25226

Is there will be preparations of ingredients before we can brew potion, for example like in Arx Fatalis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfwrjYSeVfU
Before brew potion need to make dust from ingredient then put into empty bottle add water start brew with apparatus.

Will be alchemy potions have more visual variations?
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33531
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28492
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27368
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27534
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34770
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34764
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29422
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25822
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=4212

Those are some nifty ideas. I've always enjoyed playing a stealth-oriented archer as well, and alchemy has been an important part of my arsenal.



This is the one thing that I have a slightly different take on. It never bothered me that you weren't always successful at harvesting a plant, but that could be because of how I interpreted the concepts of success and failure in this case. When I harvested a plant and didn't get anything, I always assumed that the plant did not yield precisely what I was looking for. Maybe this plant was stunted or in some other way defective. Maybe I needed very high quality ingredients and a lot of plants just didn't supply those. In other words, it's not that I failed to get something that was there for the taking, it was that the plant didn't have what I needed.

In retrospect, I don't know how much sense that makes, but that's the way I've always thought of it. Even though the chance of successful harvesting are random, I went through enough plants that everything evened out in the end.

Requiring knowledge of ingredients is an interesting idea--but what if the success ratio for harvesting increased with your alchemy skill? That is, you would get better at finding what you were looking for in a plant, and possibly at making use of somewhat inferior ingredients that might have stymied you when you were a less skilled alchemist. Just an idea.

(I also agree about having a different mesh for harvested plants--I used the Harvest Flora mod, and I'm hoping this behavior will be standard in Skyrim.)

One thing I didn't like about Oblivion alchemy ( didn't use alchemy in morrowind ) is that at a lower level skill you could make some potions to fortify some stats without side effects, and tyhen when you leveled up the side effect appeared, it's not like the side effect wasn't there to begin, you just didn't know

I think that master alchemists should be able to remove one or two effects from an ingredient via some special apparatus, or some special reagent, or any other idea to correct that.

I've read similiar explanations of the harvesting failure chance, and it's not too bad, but could be refined. I like your idea of harvesting plant success tied to your Alchemy skill.

I interpret that fail differently too. I see it more like rolling a 1 in D&D. If anyone here played D&D before they know that rolling a 1 means a failure, even if the player is really good in what he was trying to do. Putting that into the TES alchemy universe I see it as the plant not being in the correct condition for that specific harvesting, or some other unlucky event happened. So failing at that never really bothered me.

One problem I see with hidden effects is that you wouldn't need to level up your alchemy skill. You could just find potion recipes online and make any type of potion with a low skill.

Perhaps this could be balanced by making positive hidden effects weaker and negative hidden effects stronger than if you had the alchemy skill to see them.

This would make poisons too strong by not leveling your alchemy, wouldn't work.

I meant that for potions affecting you. For poisons it would have to work the other way around.

The point is that at your low alchemy level, you do not recognize the potential additional effects and so you would not be able to distill it properly.

No thanks to changing ingredient ratios just because it suits us. Alchemy is usually based on fixed ratios (like a recipie) for stuff to work in the first place. You then refine it further to enhance all effects, good effects, or reduce bad effects. If the initial product is balanced wrongly, it won't work with or without further refinement. That is just my own theory and not to be considered a fact. Other than missing sorters or filters to ease the process of creation, alchemy is already too powerful. A book is good, but I'd rather have my own onscreen notebook that I can use for a variety of things, and ability to make my own map markers (maybe indicate where ingredients grow).

I've never understood the correlation between "stealth" characters and alchemy. I love stealth characters, I've played a stealth character in every TES game so far, yet I've never even remotely thought of using Alchemy..? I don't get it. What's the point? Where's the advantage? I don't see it, yet everyone talks about how Alchemy is great for stealth characters. :shrug:
Mine have never needed it.
I'm out there stealth killing and slitting throats, not picking flowers and brewing up some sweet nectar.

Alchemy in TES could take a note from historical alchemy, there's some really cool stuff, but that's because chemistry is.

First of all, most TES ingredients are a little funky. Like, flour and bread. They have the same effects, (I think) but you can't make Bread with Flour. Also, "Bread" is by no means an alchemical ingredient. If it was, I'd at least like to see a whole loaf yield at least 4 "servings."

A lot of ingredients in ancient alchemy were not pure elements, but simple compounds, acids, etc. Aqua Fortis and Aqua Regia in particular come to mind. Of course, there were pure elements used like mercury, gold, silver. But they certainly didn't think "Oh, I'll mix some bread some mercury and see if I get gold." They tended to reduce things down as far as they could, or until they got a substance which had useful or interesting properties. They'd do this by crushing and burning different minerals, or dissolving them in the other substances they had made. Aqua Regia (Royal Water) is a particular mix of acids (I think hydrochloric mixed with nitric) that is the only one which can easily dissolve gold and platinum. Oil of Vitriol was an old timey name for sulfuric acid. Acids were used for a lot of interesting thing, like tanning leathers, adding gold and silver to weapons and armor, etc.

So I'd like to see ingredients pared down to more basic components, rather than whole objects like "bread." Fire Salts and Ash salts are actually named very similar to many of the substances used in history, "salt" is a general term still used today for many kinds of compounds with a specific chemical make up.

Of course, TES alchemy also mixes in a whole other concept, which is folk/herbal medicine. In that case it's not so weird to say "mix mandrake root with a newts eye" because you aren't looking for a pure substance, just a mixture which includes certain elements or compounds which have an effect on the human body.

*Oh, and as for "harvesting" failure. I say keep it in. Part of it represents skill (like you crush the bulb of the plant you harvest, releasing it's good juices) and the other part is just chance, like the plant was not mature, or the pods were taken by someone else, eaten, rotten, w/e. So while a high alchemy skill would reduce failure, the chance is always present.

Well, for me personally, I find it harder to 'one-shot' most foes after the first few levels. Alchemy is very useful for me for custom poisons to be used against different adversaries. I brew up silence magicka posions with damage magika or willpower, and damage health for magickal foes. For others, I use damage health with damage either strenght for melee foes, or agility for archers. Poisons help me gain the upper hand for sneak attacks that don't immediately succeed. Chameleon potions are useful to avoid detection, and invisibility helps me dissapear when I'm spotted. In short, alchemy is a great supplement to a stealthy character. I suppose you could learn spells that do the same thing.......but.......

Something I've always wanted in TES is the ability to throw unstable mixtures as bombs. Also, some form(s) of transmutation.

yes to everything you said

I actually raised my alchemy in oblivion to 100 using the duplicate glitch. I also used it to make many poison apples from the Dark Brotherhood. and then I tried to make a poison from the apple. It turns out, that the apple can only make a potion, not a poison. I drank it and died on the spot. I should have been able to make a poison but because the poison apple adds a special status(it being a fairly unique item)to you instead of damaging you with base effects, I could not make epic poison arrows or swords.

As long as alchemy continues to work similarly as in Obliv/Morr I'll be happy. THough it would be nice to see some refinements to the system.

Stacking potions - may have been a glitch in Morrowind, but it made some fun results. Having potions that could raise your intelligence and willpower to 10,000 made for some awesome rp situations. Imagine you are a mage and to create an epic enchantment or encantation you need to raise your awareness to beyond the scope of human perception... How do you do it? Chug the potions of course. There is so much that can be done with just this. How about needing potions for fighting the very high level bad guys? Would it be so bad to have to carry around emergency potions because a flame atronoch in the wild would turn to cinders even the highest level mortal without some means of fire shielding? Elemental attacks in the previous games really were not explored very well, imo. How about these dragons in Skyrim? Would it be so bad to be forced to spike your strength, endurance, etc. to...ummmm...dragon proportions in order to fight a freaking dragon and not be torn apart? All it needs is some thought, ingenuity, and balancing, and we could have a legendary alchemical system rather than an awesome one. Balancing is the key but it is also the most troublesome part. Rather than address some balancing problems from Morrowind this stacking issue was largely just cut out of Oblivion.

Potion vials / potion making - in Morr/Obliv you can be in the middle of the woods with your ingredients and chemistry set and make yourself 400 potions with those 400 vials that magically appear from nowhere. How about making potions and ingesting immediately? Making potions and applying directly to weapons? Buying supplies? Being forced to set up shop to make the epic potions would be nice, too. I'm not saying buy an alchemy store, but being required to have major potions brew for periods of time in your lair would add some realism.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I heard Todd say in a podcast (or somewhere) that they are making changes to alchemy and it's more poison related now. When I heard that I was alittle fearful that they were restricting alchemy to making poisons for weapons, but surely my ears heard wrong.....

(Woot, was gonna start a thread but I searched instead. There's a first for everything)

NO MORE FAIL

I want it to be 100% thing

BUT with skill you have a chance to get more of the ingredient/plant