about the said invasion... someone point me to a topic we had here long while back about it? or maybe someone can just fill me in on some details, maybe answer some question. questions like, who, when and such and such. i am thinking of maybe writing a short, or maybe long(er) fan faction about it and i want information about anything that has to do with it, more information the better. thanks in advance

http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/fallofaldruhn.shtml

This is pretty much it.

no dates of any kind? no specifics on the degree of devastation? i guess its all limited by imagination but within reasonable possibilities?

since Nerevarine and Vivec are no show, the timing is pass the Tribunal and Bloodmoon events, somewhere around the time of Kvatch invasion, maybe a little later? :unsure:

I would assume so. I would expect the gates would open everywhere in a simultaneous rate.

and i assume "armies" is implying actual armies, as in, swarms and swarms, not just one one gate but maybe a few or one really wide one? :unsure:

i guess all there is to say about it was already said... anyone still has any idea where and how to locate the original topic?
i looked at MKs profile but found nothing... wrong MK or what? or was it not MK that posted the topic originally?

I've got the thread in my personal archive. Here on the boards, the thread has probably been purged from memory, because the original post dates back to Dec 06. The original topic doesn't contain anything more lore-ish than the Imperial Library link already provides. As the picture implies, though: swarms and swarms of Winged Twilights and a conjured Emperor Crab included. Remember Redoran, never forget.

It could have hypothetically happened at any given time between the assassination of Uriel Septim and the Apotheosis of Martin Septim. More than likely, at around the same time as Kvatch or Bruma. I get the impression that Mehrunes Dagon or at least his top generals would strategically plan simultaneous military offenses to catch the mortals off guard and minimize their chances for reinforcements of any kind. It's an old military strategy often used in the real world and Mehrunes Dagon is the closest being to the God of War on the Daedeic pantheon with the exceptions of Boethiah and Malacath.

Not to mention that because of the Nordic invasion and the loss of the threat of the Sixth House, Ald-Ruhn may not have been at full garrison strength.

I'd assume that Mankar Camoran was the command of Daedric forces, and that the Mythic Dawn were officers. Jearl's orders and the dialogue of the Altmer you have to work with in Paradise seem to suggest this. And if it's true, then I'd imagine that Mankar was using some of his father's tactics. He would have had more than one target, and would have had the means to take them on at the same time.

So, the siege of Ald'ruhn was probably at about the same time as Kvatch.

So...is this just another case of "MK posts and therefore everyone jumps"? No actual information in any game showing this? Just an image that MK posted probably after he'd finished at Bethesda as a full-time employee?

You hear rumors of Ald'Ruhn being destroyed, the Telvanni having a really hard time closing gates, and so on during the invasion. MK's write-up was more details on that. Plus, since he does contribute a lot to TES, usually what he writes will often hold water.

The Telvanni were stated to be struggling to keep the gates shut, Redoran was stated to be besieged by the Nords, and Vivec rumoured to be taken by the daedra ( I wonder if MK read anything into that?). He wasn't so much pulling stuff out of his ass, he was simply illustrating what we all know would have happened but couldn't see. Its plausible, and there's nothing in the games to say it didn't happen, so you can't really claim it didn't happen. He wrote Knights of The Nine after leaving as well, I don't see why his not being paid for his doodling should make it any less valid.


I imagine Camoran thought he was commanding the Daedric forces, but we never see the dawnsmen and the daedra fight side by side. The dawnsmen seemed to just be opening the gates and performing sabotage. I can't imagine any of Dagon's generals taking orders from a mortal.

uh hm... lol, more like this the better, people .

say, is there no way to get this write-up here somehow ?

Sorry if I'm being blind to the obvious, but why on earth would the Daedric commanders and Mankar bother attacking Morrowind? If they know the heir to the throne is somewhere in the Imperial province, why would they not simply focus there? Morrowind is far away and the heir wouldn't have been able to get there anyway. Also, it seems a bit stupid to me to attack Kvatch first. Sure, it was where Martin was, but surely it would have made more sense to attack from the heart of the Empire - the Imperial City. That way, they could have spread out all across Cyrodiil eventually and soon killed off the heir, and there would have been no chance of lighting the Dragon Fires as that area would have been heavily occupied and destroyed by the Daedric forces

Dagon wishes to retake Tamriel as a whole, killing Martin is just a means to stop the gates from closing. Morrowind probably has the largest army outside the legions, they, with their telvanni magelords and Redoran soldiers, not to mention the fanatical troops of Indoril, represent a major military threat to the daedra.

And they didn't attack Kvatch first. The Dawn attacked the imperial city first, to kill the emperor and alow the gates to open. With the emperor and his other heirs dead, the most tactical decision would be to move on to the next city that bears the last dragonblood, and that means Kvatch. Kvatch is also a big [censored] you to Akatosh, it has morale wrecking value, kinda like kidnapping Vivec and smashing Ghostgate. "We'll do what Dagoth couldn't!"

The imperial city is ridiculously fortified, even a surprise attack would be put down quickly by the standing legion and the House guards. The one that took place was a desperate last ditch attempt to stop the lighting. If Dagon hadn't showed up, it would have been over even quicker. Remember, any dawnsmen that start trying to open a gate in the middle of the temple district are going to get themselves killed before they can do anything.

Dagon wasn't exclusively trying to kill Martin. He was probably attempting to systematically destroy all major world governments and armies, possibly including those on Akavir. His intention was to rule all of Tamriel, maybe Mundus itself, and add them onto the realms he already controlled in Oblivion.

In the excerpt from the new novel we discover he even attacked the Argonians at Black Marsh, who aren't under Imperial control at all except the border cities, but he attacked the big settlements deep in the swamps. He wanted COMPLETE dominion over the entire world.

We already knew that. The Hist smashed them, remember?

I was under the impression that the barriers were getting thinner and thinner until at the moment when all Oblivion broke loose they had collapsed completely and now the Daedra could open gates into Nirn.

Thanks for the replies - good bit of knowledge

But still, why would Dagon bother opening gates in the middle of nowhere in Cyrodiil (like in Obliivon where they are in random locations with nothing aroudn them)?
They could have encircled the imperial city with numerous gates and then, as the Daedra are inummerable, taken the IC by force with success.

But yeah, nvm - game mechanics probably.

My thoery:

Dagon gets a map of Tamriel and posted on a wall. He gets like hundreds of darts and start randomly throwing the darts at the map. Where the dart landed is where the gates open.

^ I lol'd.

:rofl: ... or, where the dart hits developer writes in that the gate opened there.

the quickest explanation for all the less than smart military moves by Dagon is that they need to be less than smart or the game would be a lot more difficult and the story would need to be written with even more details to account for the now extremely difficult Main Quest. the other reason is probably game mechanics, as was mentioned already. and of course, the lore friendly explanation: Dagon is not the best military leader in Oblivion or Mundus? more direct approach, head on takedown tactics tend to be less precise or thought through than more carefully planed warfare with a decent chunk of working in shadow, sneaking up, etc, etc. Dagon failed the sneakier approach before(Battlespire) so he reverted back to good 'ol familiar head on onslaught.

lol, we got off topic somewhat.. back to Ald-Ruhn? :hehe:

something that just crossed my mind: would not Telvanni know something about the Sigil Stones? this could account some for the little success they seem to have with the gates: "House Telvanni fights the Daedra and does their best to close the Oblivion gates, but little is gained"( http://www.imperial-library.info/history/3.shtml). How would they "try their best to close the gates" though? spells? rituals? what?

That takes the relevant quotation somewhat out of context (or is something of a misquote...). AFAIR, the rumor talks about how the Telvanni have had a great deal of success on an 'induvidual gate' basis, but in the wider picture their efforts don't stem the tide.

i wasn't trying to miss-quote anything... just figured it was OK to use that as reference to go off while formulation the question about the Segil Stones.

so then, the possibility of Telvanni knowing about the Stones is slim? :confused:

I meant the TIL source was a misquote/misrepresentation of the rumour in question. Anyway, the probability of them knowing something is quite high, as they are reported to deal with the Gates with high efficiency.