So, is Alduin an Aedra, Dragon, Daedra Or none? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:21 am

He seems to be something above the dragons. He clearly have enough power to defeat Mehrunes Dagon. While some high Aedra can't. He claims to be son-of-akatosh, but after he named him self as his aspect, and again as his son. Clearly Akatosh didn't interefed direct on Skyrim events. Or Akatosh is just too lazy to do the job. Homever he was defeated by the Dragonborn, and his souls vanish, but to where? I really don't know.

But one thing is certain......

He is cool and badass.

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:32 pm

He is one aspect of Akathosh, Dragon God Of Time and thus I would say you could place him into Aedra category.
And how could he be stronger than Dagon when Alduin fell to Dragonborn?

» Mon May 07, 2012 9:23 pm

He is one aspect of Akathosh, Dragon God Of Time and thus I would say you could place him into Aedra category.
And how could he be stronger than Dagon when Alduin fell to Dragonborn?

Mehrunes Dagon separeted Nirn in many pieces to make Alduin unable to devore it. Also he hided himself from Alduin. In other words, he would'ven been eated. Aren't the souls of the humans immortal? How can Alduin devour them?

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:07 am

I'd still consider him Aedra.

And how could he be stronger than Dagon when Alduin fell to Dragonborn?

On a side note, Alduin did not die.

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:59 am

I'd still consider him Aedra.

On a side note, Alduin did not die.

Yeah, he is more like an Aedra. But he can't die, and Aedra can die. This is very intersting. Probaly, since he is a dragon, born in Mundus with a soul of a dragon and part Aedra, would him have an immortal soul like of Daedra?

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:18 am

I'd still consider him Aedra.

On a side note, Alduin did not die.

I did not said he died.

» Mon May 07, 2012 9:52 pm

Aedra would be the only category that makes sense to me. Alduin is an aspect of Akatosh, an Aedra, so in that sense he is one. And although Alduin is power-mad and egotistical, he does serve a purpose in the grand scheme of things. It would seem to me that Alduin is purely chaotic in nature, and he's beyond the control of Akatosh, which is why the Dragonborn exists: to keep Alduin in line, so that he can fulfill his purpose when it is the appropriate time, i.e. when Akatosh says so. Alduin didn't die, because Alduin isn't meant to die ...yet, if ever.

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:08 am

Aedra would be the only category that makes sense to me. Alduin is an aspect of Akatosh, an Aedra, so in that sense he is one. And although Alduin is power-mad and egotistical, he does serve a purpose in the grand scheme of things. It would seem to me that Alduin is purely chaotic in nature, and he's beyond the control of Akatosh, which is why the Dragonborn exists: to keep Alduin in line, so that he can fulfill his purpose when it is the appropriate time, i.e. when Akatosh says so. Alduin didn't die, because Alduin isn't meant to die ...yet, if ever.

The Dragonborn is much more weak than Alduin in his full power. Homever as far as i know, Alduin is not Akatosh and doesn't have his powers. Akatosh in other words, is the god of Time. Their level of power are diferrent, but i think Akatosh doesn't want to die, since he is an Aedra.

» Tue May 08, 2012 10:12 am

Levels of power become irrelevant when it comes to matters of fate. The Dragonborn is meant to stop Alduin, and so he does, regardless of whether Alduin can fling more fireballs or not. And no, Alduin is not Akatosh in the flesh. But, he is a part of Akatosh, an aspect of him, a physical representation of a purpose that Akatosh does serve. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's an alter-ego, but in the vaguest sense, that's what he is.

In theory.

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:04 pm

"As he entered every aspect of Anuiel, Lorkhan would plant an idea that was almost wholly based on limitation. He outlined a plan to create a soul for the Aurbis, a place where the aspects of aspects might even be allowed to self-reflect. He gained many followers; even Auriel, when told he would become the king of the new world, agreed to help Lorkhan. So they created the Mundus, where their own aspects might live, and became the et'Ada.

But this was a trick. As Lorkhan knew, this world contained more limitations than not and was therefore hardly a thing of Anu at all. Mundus was the House of Sithis. As their aspects began to die off, many of the et'Ada vanished completely. Some escaped, like Magnus, and that is why there are no limitations to magic. Others, like Y'ffre, transformed themselves into the Ehlnofey, the Earthbones, so that the whole world might not die. Some had to marry and make children just to last. Each generation was weaker than the last, and soon there were Aldmer. "

Source: The Monomyth

If Alduin is a 'child' of Akatosh, he would be Ehlnofey, I think.

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:29 pm

"As he entered every aspect of Anuiel, Lorkhan would plant an idea that was almost wholly based on limitation. He outlined a plan to create a soul for the Aurbis, a place where the aspects of aspects might even be allowed to self-reflect. He gained many followers; even Auriel, when told he would become the king of the new world, agreed to help Lorkhan. So they created the Mundus, where their own aspects might live, and became the et'Ada.

But this was a trick. As Lorkhan knew, this world contained more limitations than not and was therefore hardly a thing of Anu at all. Mundus was the House of Sithis. As their aspects began to die off, many of the et'Ada vanished completely. Some escaped, like Magnus, and that is why there are no limitations to magic. Others, like Y'ffre, transformed themselves into the Ehlnofey, the Earthbones, so that the whole world might not die. Some had to marry and make children just to last. Each generation was weaker than the last, and soon there were Aldmer. "

Source: The Monomyth

If Alduin is a 'child' of Akatosh, he would be Ehlnofey, I think.

A survivor from this insane change? Very intersting indeed.

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:23 am

A survivor from this insane change? Very intersting indeed.

Well, we know the dragons are very old and dont seem to have changed in all that time.
Other Ehlnofey became smaller and more numerous and eventually man, mer and other living things, that would make dragons our uncles, so to speak.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:04 am

A jagged splinter in God's ass.

» Tue May 08, 2012 6:02 am

If Alduin is a 'child' of Akatosh, he would be Ehlnofey, I think.

This is probably most correct.

Alduin is a subgradient of Akatosh. He is not Aedra; he is not the ancestor of men or mer, which is what that means. He's also not a Daedra.

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:24 am

This is probably most correct.

Alduin is a subgradient of Akatosh. He is not Aedra; he is not the ancestor of men or mer, which is what that means. He's also not a Daedra.

I'm not sure we could call him a subgradient. Synonym or even anagram seems more fitting.

» Tue May 08, 2012 6:04 am

I don't think dragons are Ehlnofey, It is made pretty clear that Ehlnofey are ancestors to mortals. Perhaps dragons are "like" Ehlnofey in that they have similar origins.

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:51 am

Mehrunes Dagon separeted Nirn in many pieces to make Alduin unable to devore it. Also he hided himself from Alduin. In other words, he would'ven been eated. Aren't the souls of the humans immortal? How can Alduin devour them?

By the mannish views of creation, mortal souls did not exist until the Aedra gave up part of themselves to create them. Alduin is doing the exact opposite: devouring mortal souls to make himself more powerful. The Dwemer also pulled off a similar, much more efficient, reversal when the souls of the race were turned into Numidium's divine flesh.

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:34 am

Well, we know the dragons are very old and dont seem to have changed in all that time.
Other Ehlnofey became smaller and more numerous and eventually man, mer and other living things, that would make dragons our uncles, so to speak.

Imagine the mind blow of when the Nords discovere that they are killing their own uncles.

"OMG what i've done? Uncle Parthunaax! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:06 am

I'm not sure we could call him a subgradient. Synonym or even anagram seems more fitting.

No, synonym implies they are the same, two words for the same thing, which isn't correct. Alduin is a piece of Akatosh, but there are many more pieces of Akatosh out there, including other dragons, people who've mantled him like Tosh Raka, and the dragonborn. Alduin is Akatosh, in the same way that all Texans are Americans, but not all Americans are Texans.

Hence, "subgradient".

» Mon May 07, 2012 11:53 pm

No, synonym implies they are the same, two words for the same thing, which isn't correct. Alduin is a piece of Akatosh, but there are many more pieces of Akatosh out there, including other dragons, people who've mantled him like Tosh Raka, and the dragonborn. Alduin is Akatosh, in the same way that all Texans are Americans, but not all Americans are Texans.

Hence, "subgradient".

I think its closer to how Fiji apples and gala apples are both apples. Even better, how apple pie and apple bread are both apples.

Alduin isnt a piece of akatosh. Alduin is most of the same ingredients prepared into a different dish.

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:58 pm

Alduin ent Akatosh.

Just like you aren't your father. They are two sperate entities, Akatosh doesn't want to eat the world. Why would he save the world two hundred years prior? Just so he would have a snack for later?

» Tue May 08, 2012 4:43 am

Alduin ent Akatosh.

Just like you aren't your father. They are two sperate entities, Akatosh doesn't want to eat the world. Why would he save the world two hundred years prior? Just so he would have a snack for later?

So he can destroy it the right way later.

Well, that's Auriel. The Aedra are shaped by mortal thought, and can both aspects exist at the same time because of it.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:04 am

So with this line of thinking, Alduin was an Aedra. Ok, that raises a flag for me because Aedra can be killed (divine contract of creation). So when Alduin is killed in Sovngarde does that mean he is dead?

» Tue May 08, 2012 4:04 am

So with this line of thinking, Alduin was an Aedra. Ok, that raises a flag for me because Aedra can be killed (divine contract of creation). So when Alduin is killed in Sovngarde does that mean he is dead?

It depends on what death really would mean for him.

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:31 pm

I always imagined that beings like this can exist in multiple places at once. Or Alduin was simply banished and the husk that his being happened to be inhabiting in that particular realm dissolved upon the departure of the animus.