Alduin = Akatosh ? : V - Skyrim

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:13 am

There are two books in the game, one written by an imperial 'Alduin is real and he ent Akatosh,' and 'The Alduin/ Akatosh dichotomy'.

Both take an opposing viewpoint, the one written by a Nord says Alduin is basically a big dragon and Akatosh is something else entirely, and the one written by an Imperial says Alduin obviously is Akatosh and the Nords just misunderstood.

There really isnt much to go on either way in the game that I have found.
I need to do the main quest a few more times, particulary the dialogue with Paarthurnax.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:16 pm

Spoiler

Actually He's Akatoshes first son, they say so in the main quest Parrthorax or what ever his name is says it.

Indeed he does. And he should know what he's talking about.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:54 am

I think Alduin and Akatosh have been confused with time, the Imperials took Alduin for the Nord representation of Alduin and Its real identity was lost over the years. In the game, Alduin identifies himself

Spoiler

As the firstborn of Akatosh.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:02 pm

There are two books in the game, one written by an imperial 'Alduin is real and he ent Akatosh,' and 'The Alduin/ Akatosh dichotomy'.

Both take an opposing viewpoint, the one written by a Nord says Alduin is basically a big dragon and Akatosh is something else entirely, and the one written by an Imperial says Alduin obviously is Akatosh and the Nords just misunderstood.

There really isnt much to go on either way in the game that I have found.

And the one written by the Nords says the Imperials are trying to shoehorn their inanity on what's otherwise a clear distinction because Imperials are stupid and have a fetish for complexity.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:49 pm

It's just mortal speculation that Alduin is Akatosh. There has been neither any divine manuscripts (similar to a Bible) written by the divines that confirm this, nor any official confirmation from Bethesda.

Many of the fictional mortals of Nirn believe Alduin is Akatosh, which of course means it's an accepted belief by the player. But look more closely at the lore and you'll see some interesting things which dispute this point of view.

Edit: Ah I just read that spoiler where Paarthurnax reveals Alduin's origins. Well I'll take his word over anything written in a book by a mortal.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:33 am

You know the movie "Fight Club"? That was about Akatosh/Alduin.

Yes I did see it. You're talking about a man/woman (god in this case) that has another personality/being/attitude/side in him. Other people see him as one being but he sees himself as two. However this is what I don't understand :

Spoiler

Now that Alduin is banished, is Akatosh banished as well?

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:58 am

And the one written by the Nords says the Imperials are trying to shoehorn their inanity on what's otherwise a clear distinction because Imperials are stupid and have a fetish for complexity.

While the one written by the Imperial says Nords misunderstood in their simplicity and made Akatosh into a fierce creature because he manifests as a dragon.

Meanwhile in the game he is obviously a big dragon.
Or is he? You dont get his soul in Sovngarde.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:30 pm

did you know there are swords in the game?

Where?

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:10 am

While the one written by the Imperial says Nords misunderstood in their simplicity and made Akatosh into a fierce creature because he manifests as a dragon.

Meanwhile in the game he is obviously a big dragon.
Or is he? You dont get his soul in Sovngarde.

That's because he simply isn't a dragon. He's more than a dragon, he's both human/dragon/god/harvester of souls. A normal dragon can't eat the soul of the dead, while Alduin can. A dragon is just one side of him. Akatosh is his human form.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:18 am

Yes I did see it. You're talking about a man/woman (god in this case) that has another personality/being/attitude/side in him. Other people see him as one being but he sees himself as two. However this is what I don't understand :

Spoiler

Now that Alduin is banished, is Akatosh banished as well?

No, I'm talking about how the movie Fight Club is about Alduin and Akatosh.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:20 am

Alduin is the first-born son of Akatosh, father of the dragons. Alduin has serious daddy issues and convinced his brothers (and maybe sisters?) to enslave humans and try to destroy the world.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:41 am

Alduin is the first-born son of Akatosh, father of the dragons. Alduin has serious daddy issues and convinced his brothers (and maybe sisters?) to enslave humans and try to destroy the world.

I'm glad someone said it. Too much talk about schizophrenia going on here.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:11 am

=.= And now I'm surprised this discussion even went on after it was pointed out in post 22 that this is a necroed thread from before the game was out.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:44 pm

I'm glad someone said it. Too much talk about schizophrenia going on here.

It's not that simple though.

Alduin, being the first-born of Akatosh, was the wisest dragon of all, being able to see the furthest of the dragons, being able to master more shouts than other dragons can and it's more complicated than a 'daddy-son' thing. Alduin is part of Akatosh himself. Look at it like this :

When Akatosh created Alduin, he took a part of himself and multiplied it, just like an Amoeba does, it splits in two, always multiplying themselves and getting greater in number and with time, each part gets bigger and bigger as well. Alduin, being a part made out of Akatosh himself rebelled, made a name of his own, made people fear him as opposed to his "father" (if you want to call him that) Akatosh, who is perceived as the creator, ruler of time and one who allows things to happen at a perceived moment by human, mer and beast races.

This is like the bible's Lucifer, the most bright and beautiful angel, rebelled and claimed to be better than god himself. He then convinced 1/3 of the other "lesser" angels to aid him in his rebellion but he lost his fight against god and he was sent to hell/abyss/darkness and became a mischievous abomination with nothing but thirst for destruction and souls.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:16 am

Yes.

But that doesn't mean Akatosh and Alduin like each other.

You sound like Sheogorath xD

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:43 pm

Yes.
Its more schizophrenic than that.

Hahah :lmao:

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:09 pm

No I didn't, isn't alduin one of akatosh kids?

Cheers

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:07 pm

double post... some how...

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:18 pm

What? They say Alduin is the first born son of Akatosh...

You are wrong...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Alduin

He only proclaims himself to be an aspect of Alduin.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:36 pm

What? They say Alduin is the first born son of Akatosh...

You are wrong...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Alduin

He only proclaims himself to be an aspect of Alduin.

Yes, that's what I was saying, paartharuax said alduin was first born.

Cheers

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:59 am

I just found out that Alduin is just the Nordic name for Akatosh, wow Im actully worried about this dude coming to Nirn now ... what are your thoughts ...

Yes, but Technically, Alduin is just Akatosh's star, like his prized one, he is NOT the God, listen to:

Spoiler

Parthaanax(Sorry for Spelling) at the end of MQ and he tells you the same thing.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:54 am

It's not that simple though.

Alduin, being the first-born of Akatosh, was the wisest dragon of all, being able to see the furthest of the dragons, being able to master more shouts than other dragons can and it's more complicated than a 'daddy-son' thing. Alduin is part of Akatosh himself. Look at it like this :

When Akatosh created Alduin, he took a part of himself and multiplied it, just like an Amoeba does, it splits in two, always multiplying themselves and getting greater in number and with time, each part gets bigger and bigger as

But that's how all of creation in ES works. The Gods take part of themselves and chop it off, and reform it into something else. If you're going to get that literal about it, then every single person in Tamriel is also Akatosh since at some point in the very distant past they used to be part of him.

There's no solid lore anywhere that states that Alduin is a conflicted part of Akatosh, at least not that I've read.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:32 am

But that's how all of creation in ES works. The Gods take part of themselves and chop it off, and reform it into something else. If you're going to get that literal about it, then every single person in Tamriel is also Akatosh since at some point in the very distant past they used to be part of him.

There's no solid lore anywhere that states that Alduin is a conflicted part of Akatosh, at least not that I've read.

Wrong, not everything is apart of Akatosh.

Many other Aedra sacrificed themselves to create Nirn, Lorkhan being the major part in that, who i believe created the Nedic people.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:33 am

Nords refer to Akatosh as Alduin and see them as the same but they are not, Akatosh is a god, Alduin is a dragon, otherwise we couldnt have beaten him. Alduin himself, and parthurnaax, and Odahviing state multiple times that Alduin is the first born son of Akatosh.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:16 am

Wrong, not everything is apart of Akatosh.

Many other Aedra sacrificed themselves to create Nirn, Lorkhan being the major part in that, who i believe created the Nedic people.

Yes but the Aedra originated from Akatosh.