Alduin, Akatosh : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Mon May 07, 2012 7:08 pm

I'm not sure if it's been answered before (search isn't working for me at the moment), but I was under the impression that Akatosh was not a Nordic deity. How then can Alduin be the son of Akatosh, as it's stated in the game?

I don't spend a lot of my time in this section of the forum, but from the posts I've read, it seems that each deity isn't just the same deity for each race -- they're all different aspects or variants of some sort of universal pantheon, so they're the same but not the same, since each race views each deity differently (with some exceptions, I'm guessing).

I haven't seen anything about Akatosh being in the Nordic pantheon, only Alduin.. and that was pre-Skyrim. Now that we "know" Alduin is the son of Akatosh, has he replaced Alduin in the pantheon?

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:43 am

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1327350-the-aldudagga-fight-four-a-fragment/, though apocryphal, may contain something of an answer.

I'm relatively sure that Alduin-as-Akatosh is an aspect of Akatosh, not the whole. My hypothesis: the dragon Alduin was attempting to become Akatosh. The aspect of Akatosh became known as Alduin to the Nords because of the dragon's actions.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:55 am

It should also be noted that his reference to "Akatosh" could just mean the God of Time itself, as that's the most familiar name people would be familiar with, and of which the Imperial Akatosh is also just one aspect. In game, Paarthurnax calls Akatosh "Bormahu", which is a variation of the word "father".

» Mon May 07, 2012 11:51 pm

Remember, to dragons, mortals are bumbling idiots. So, in order to communicate with beings who toy with mechanisms they have not even the slightest idea, they dumb it down HARD. For this, they refer to, what I call now the Dragon of Time, Aka, they use the name most people are familiar with, Akatosh.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:19 am

Remember, to dragons, mortals are bumbling idiots. So, in order to communicate with beings who toy with mechanisms they have not even the slightest idea, they dumb it down HARD. For this, they refer to, what I call now the Dragon of Time, Aka, they use the name most people are familiar with, Akatosh.

Yurp. There's Aka, then there's The Aka.

» Mon May 07, 2012 12:55 pm

Is this a possibility/
That the Alduin in this game if successful in eating this kalpa becomes the next kalpas akatosh.
By that token is our akatosh the last kalpas alduin?

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:57 am

Is this a possibility/
That the Alduin in this game if successful in eating this kalpa becomes the next kalpas akatosh.
By that token is our akatosh the last kalpas alduin?

That's interesting, it would certainly give Alduin some reason for being such a [censored]. Though I don't know the lore behind it.

» Mon May 07, 2012 9:04 pm

Is this a possibility/
That the Alduin in this game if successful in eating this kalpa becomes the next kalpas akatosh.
By that token is our akatosh the last kalpas alduin?

Doubtful.

In my own view, Alduin is just the Time Dragon filtered through the collective Nordic consciousness. Nords loath time, because their chaotic individualism means that every fallen grain of sand in the hourglass is one step closer to total destruction. Further, nothing is so relentless, so ubiquitous in the human experience as the inexorable crawl of Time. It is Imperator Mundi, and the Nordic spirit abhors those who would claim mastery over all. Hence does the Dragon appear in Skyrim as Tyrant and Devourer.

Compare this to Cyrodiil, with its stable societies that last so long as to define eras. To the Cyrodilic mind, Time is their silent benefactor - aloof perhaps, but always watching their progress with a broad approbatory grin. Hence does the Dragon appear as a nigh-invisible Heavenly Father, standing back to watch his children grow whilst always ready to come to their aid should they need him.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:43 am

Doubtful.

In my own view, Alduin is just the Time Dragon filtered through the collective Nordic consciousness. Nords loath time, because their chaotic individualism means that every fallen grain of sand in the hourglass is one step closer to total destruction. Further, nothing is so relentless, so ubiquitous in the human experience as the inexorable crawl of Time. It is Imperator Mundi, and the Nordic spirit abhors those who would claim mastery over all. Hence does the Dragon appear in Skyrim as Tyrant and Devourer.

Compare this to Cyrodiil, with its stable societies that last so long as to define eras. To the Cyrodilic mind, Time is their silent benefactor - aloof perhaps, but always watching their progress with a broad approbatory grin. Hence does the Dragon appear as a nigh-invisible Heavenly Father, standing back to watch his children grow whilst always ready to come to their aid should they need him.

Interesting idea, though I wonder how Alduin the dragon meshes with Alduin the Nordic perspective of the God of Time. Are they truly the same entity, are they distinct, or is it somewhere in between? Further, do these perspectives actively shape the gods?

» Mon May 07, 2012 8:54 pm

I kind of see Alduin to Akatosh in the same relationship as you would Jesus to God. What I mean by this, is that I imagine that Alduin is the child of Akatosh, but also 'is' Alduin himself at the same time. As if Alduin used a piece of himself to create Akatosh, if that makes any sense at all.

» Mon May 07, 2012 10:05 pm

I thought Thromgar Iron-Head had all the answers:

As my da used to say - Imperials are idiutts!

That is why I am riting this book. I ent never rote a book before, and I do not reckon to rite one agenn, but sometimes a man must do what a man must do. And what I must do is set the recerd strate about the god called Akatosh and the dragon called Alduin. They ent the same thing, no matter what them Imperials mite say, or how thay mite wish it to be so.

My da was never one for the gods, but my ma was. She wershipped all the Divines, and tot me lots of things. So I noe a thing or two about Akatosh. Just as much as any Imperial. I noe he was the first of all the gods to take shape in the Beginning Place. And I noe he has the shape of a dragon.

My da even told me the story of Martyn Septim, and the things what happened when the gates to Oblivion opened. Septim turned into the spirit of Akatosh and killed Mehrunes Dagon. Now I dont noe about you, but any dragon that fites the Prince of Destruction is okay by me.

Now I hope you understand the problim. Akatosh is good. Everyone, from Nord to Imperial, noes that. But Alduin? He ent good! He's the oposit of good! That Alduin is evil thrue and thrue. So you see, Akatosh and Alduin cant be one and the same.

Growing up as a lad in Skyrim, I herd all the stories. Told to me by my da, who was told by his da, who was told by his da, and so on. And one of those stories was about Alduin. But see, he was not Akatosh. He was another dragon and a real wun at that.

Akatosh is some kind of spirit dragon I think, wen he bothers to be a dragon at all (and not a god livin in sum kind of god plac like Obliviun). But Alduin is a real dragon, with flesh and teeth and a mean streak longer than the White River. And there was a time when Alduin tried to rool over all of Skyrim with his other dragons. In the end, it took sum mitey strong heroes to finally kill Alduin and be dun with his hole sorry story.

So I got to ask - does that sound like Akatosh to you? No, frend. No it do not.

And so I, Thromgar Iron-Head do firmly say, with the utmost connvicshun, that Alduin is real, and he ent Akatosh!