http://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga

So, that's Alduin, who factors into the poem and likely the plot of Skyrim. The translations can be found in numerous places on the forum.

So, what do you think? I'm glad to hear he's involved, but I wonder in just what capacity. Obviously the Nords see him as a destroyer god, the destroyer to Akatosh's preserver and Lorkhan's creator (ooh, seen that somewhere, haven't we ). What I wonder is, will they reset the kalpa with this game, or will the plot of this game be a big "screw destiny" and have the protagonist actually permanently stop the cycle of rebirth?

If they reset the kalpa, then the weight of previous continuity is gone. However, that means they lose the familiar elements that people like about the games. Then there's the alternative, of interrupting the cycle. I personally would like to see this, because I tend to take a "screw destiny" stance in the first place. However, that would require that some ogf the viking influences of the Nords be lost, since Norse Paganism was endlessly fatalist. I suppose we'll see, so don't get yourself set in any one camp, but what do you think, speculatively?

Well there is a letter from the 5th era so we do have at least one more era to go through. The plot must resolve peacefully with alduin going back to sleep hungry

maybe we pull a time paradox? or get akatosh to relax for a little bit longer?

I highly doubt Bethesda would have the kalpa canonically reverted - all the charm of the series would be lost. Personally I see a lot of potential here with the "screw destiny stance". Consider the Altmer, who see their mortality as a wretched curse and how many of them were strong supporters of Mankar Camoran. Ought to be lots of moral conflicts in this game, but in the end I'm sure we'll find a way to play the Nu-Mantia card and temporarily stave off our destruction (and screw up the cosmos for the next installment) yet again.

Or maybe time will simply end? Start over? That would be insane.

And Alduin said, "Ho ha ho."

Off topic, but might this explain the chanting in the song?

It could be a time to end the series, if they have a plan for it.
Otherwise, it would have to be the "screw destiny" thing. They did it with Sheogorath...

I don't want the series to start over :mellow: . We still have other provinces to base several titles from... Once they are exhausted then go nuts.

It does make mythic sense, since the whole reason Lorkhan created Mundus was to do just that in his way. Backfired a mite, but whatever.

Although since all we can gather is that he is in it as an antagonistic force, the only real goings-on until more information is given is less nerdy people than me getting their first glimpse of the TES plot point that gods can be multfaceted as both creator and destroyer simultaneously.

Double-posted again? Odd.

I bet that the kalpas continues. An epilogue will tell of man finally reaching the destiny that Lorkhan laid out for them. After this brief cutscene, an empty map will load in the Construction Set....

Was the letter from the 5th era in the games? I thought that was just something that MK wrote... though I can barely remember it now anyway...

Well there's this idea floating around that it was from a hypothetical future, that may or may not have been averted by the deeds of Vuhon and Sul in the novel. But we might need to wait for novel 2 to be sure of that.

I guess what I am asking is whether or not it ever existed in any of the games or The Infernal City. I thought it was just something that MK wrote, and that doesn't make it canon. Which means, that it shouldn't be proffered as evidence towards a 5th era existing... But like I said, I can't recall if it was just something he posted and because he did work with Bethesda as a writer, that people oogled over it, or if it did indeed appear in actual Elder Scrolls produced materials.

It didn't appear in the games, but it is generally accepted to have the same level of canon as the in-game books, which makes sense since a lot of the lore for the future was apparently written in advance, so he'd know.

I had the thought that the main quest would revolve around dovahkiin having to reunite the warring tribes in order to fight against him
I don't really think this would make a good plot, though

I wouldn't say it's generally accepted. I don't accept it, and I'm pretty sure that Bethesda don't accept it as canon, and they have the final word on this, not MK.

Also, I seriously doubt that anything that's written as if Alduin was in fact T-Rex from Dinosaur Comics with more vulgar language will ever be canon.

I love MK's stuff, but I don't consider it canon. As soon as the developers decide it's so awesome they need to make it canon, it will be canon, but not before.

Screw destiny! No really, I hope they let us "sever the thread of fate" again.

Go down to the lore areas of the internet, most people accept them. That is the definition of "generally accepted." Bethesda has never said they weren't canon, and they conflict with nothing. And if having things in a tone drunk nordic bards would likely use makes something not canon, then a lot of the new stuff in Skyrim will likely be out of the running.

Also, being Alduin appears in any detail solely in the Aldudugga, saying it's non-canon basically says that Alduin isn't a pre-existing character when in fact he is. Like I said, the lore gets written a few games in advance. It's not like they're making it all up just now, the general plot of Infernal City was likely already in some form back in 2002, since a lot of Morrowind's plot foreshadows it.

My final thought on this matter is that is Bethesda had a canon separate from what we tend to be given, then they would probably go ahead and say we've been misled, because they watch us and know how we react to things.

Not that it changes much the OP but Alduin=Akatosh=Auriel

Its canon in that its a piece of Nord mythology that could exist. The point is not that any of this happened like this but it makes sense for some Nords to understand Tamerielic history this way. All thats really interesting is the colleration of Dagon messing things up and Alduin waking up, and the line of Alduin prefering to eat Nords first. Those parts alone suggest MK was exploring the lore that was already planned to be used as Skyrim's main plotline. Even if its not canon it exists in the context of canon, its been sitting there as a big teaser for Skyrim without us realising it.

The childish dialogue is pretty in keeping with real life Norse mythological figures. Theres no reason religion can't be funny, its all interwoven with supersition and storytelling, which is what MK was illustrating, right?

Screw destiny, I have green hair!

The entire point of the first Aldudagga story is that Lorkhan had a plan to stave off the inevitable destruction of the world by ruining Alduin's s---.

As a guess at the plot, Alduin = Majora's Mask to Akatosh's Skull Kid, with Lorkhan as Link. Basically, deliberately or otherwise, Alduin eventually causes the end of the world or at least the end of time (call it the ultimate Dragon Break). Boo. As all Aedra (and possibly daedra, depending on what you read) are subject to time, they are destroyed as well and as unaware of the kalpa as mortals.

However, Lorkhan is partially outside of time due to his unique mythic nature (call it CHIM, if you prefer), and thus is able to go back to the beginning of the world and change history slightly to try to change events (Lorkhan gets savegames too, basically). Over the course of the past several universes, he has been gradually dragging out the time it takes for Alduin to destroy the world. This time, Alduin's destruction of the world will finally be delayed long enough that the Dragonborn will finally be in a position to avert the calamity and allow the universe to progress into the future.

I know that the people in the lore areas accept them, but that is not "generally accepted". That's like saying that it's generaly accepted that Oblivion was a horrible game because the people on the forums always rant about how it's been dumbed down and all. People have good reasons for making such a claim (and I generally agree with them), but that doesn't mean there aren't millions of people who enjoyed the game nonetheless.
To come back to the lore in question - there are more people who know about the texts from MK, not just the lore scholars. You don't hear of them often in the lore forums though (just like you don't hear the opinions of casual players very often in a fan forum).

However, I do remember that there has been quite a discussion about whether the love letter from the 5th era should be considered canon or not. As far as I remember, that didn't contradict any existing lore when it came out, but people still didn't like the idea of Cyberpunk Tamriel. That's why I wouldn't say his texts are generally accepted as canon. It seems like that strongly depends on the contents of the texts. In my opinion, however, if texts aren't considered canon because we don't like their content, then the other texts which have content we like should also be taken with a grain of salt.

I don't like how they are not mentioning that Alduin is Akatosh in the gameinformer.

Do you think it's a retcon, or are they just hiding it for the ones that don't know?