When I played Morrowind, I met Talos. I met Mara. I met Zenithar.

I helped them out by either doing something for them, or giving something to them. In return, I got a nice power, and nifty gifts. That counts as "interaction" to me.

Akatosh coming back to interact with the world again isn't beyond possibility. For a not-real-world example, Aslan creates the world of Narnia. When it was time, Aslan returns to unravel the world he created.

Peryite's portfolio, to use a D&D term, is Order. He keeps the lower realms of Oblivion neat and tidy with everything in its place and happening in its time. I don't think he'd much appreciate crumbling empires, civil war, and the usual chaos that attends such things.

Wait, is that right? Red Mountain='Vvaardenfell', whereas the island as a whole is called Vvardenfell? Or it this a typo combined with a somewhat odd description?

Technically the whole island of Vvardenfell (no double As) is the volcano of Red Mountain (originally called Dagoth Ur).


All information we have on Alduin says that he is the Nordic version of Akatosh.

i really hope alduin is akatosh, i wanna avenge mehrunes dagons banishment!

@povuholo
I'm not sure, but I think that the whole island of Vvardenfell
is just one big mountain, Red Mountain. Correct me if I'm wrong.

"As Skyrim begins, a lone prisoner begins to learn that he may hold a similar power…"

LoL I knew we were in prison...AGAIN! XD jk but I hoped that with a new TES game they changed the start...

I was just finalizing my thoughts on my theory. Then for some reason, people took that personally as if it was my declaration that they were wrong or idiots, which was not the case and I don't know why they even tied themselves personally to the fate of the theory of Alduin is Akatosh. As for the in-game lore that says Alduin is Akatosh...it doesn't. The book is about comparing the various pantheons of the races and it is likely that an error was made while comparing them by the author believing that Alduin translated to Akatosh because he was a dragon. It's not really solidly established lore, it has more than enough room for error and never out right said Alduin is Akatosh, there is even lore that blatantly suggests that Alduin looks different than Akatosh and has different means.

@Talaran You met apparitions of Talos, Mara and Zenithar, they weren't them. They were sort've like avatars except with very little power placed within them.

I'm just done with debating the theories because no one is going to budge on either side at this point because we all have read the lore and we interpret them differently. We will see in November what the truth is and who interpreted the lore correctly. I just don't believe Alduin is Akatosh. As for we know that divine beings can be at multiple places at once. Yes, we know that they can be at multiple places at once because they can create avatars or apparitions. But they can't be two separate true entities from any information that I have read in the lore.

I think that it was mentioned somewhere that in order for Alduin to 'devour' the world he must first rid the world of men before he can ascend to his original form, unbound to Nirn.

It's pathetic bethesda keeps using the Prisioner angle at the beginning, seriously, get a new way to start the game, talk about unoriginal.

Ok, now you've lost all your credibility, which wasn't a lot begin with.

Come on. Are you really saying you're that naive? If you openly state "I guess I was right" (with a perceived emphasis on the second "I") and "This puts to rest all theories other than my own", of course people are going to feel insulted. It's also not as if you didn't say later, in capital letters, why the "drivel" of the other side of the argument is "impossible".
Don't act so innocent - like other people said, they just don't buy it. It is a too well-known discussion strategy (especially by people who start an argument with a strongly polarizing statement that is difficult to defend).


Now that is a theory of yours that doesn't have any foundations in established lore, the whole stuff about translation errors. We don't know anything about the author. I repeat, it is very possible that your theory is right, but the current clues suggest otherwise. The book clearly says "Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh". So, again: If you say stuff like "in game lore doesn't say Alduin is Akatosh", then of course people want to correct you, and of course if you say such things many many times, people will get annoyed, because it is simply not correct! Lore does say Alduin is Akatosh. The question is, however, if lore is right. But nobody here ignores this possibility.


Yes we will, and no, we won't. Because there is no way of interpreting the lore "correctly". These are the little details that make people angry after you made a statement.

Could you show us those bits of lore, please?

The lore and cannon for just about any series can be incredibly flexible-I'd imagine that the blocking out of Oblivion may potentially be temporary or have some limits to it (at the very least, we'll hopefully still have Daedric shrine quests). True, I don't fully understand how that's supposed to work and it's a bit confusing when you consider the events of Shivering Isles (although I think they try to explain it-sort of). Either way, I don't think we could rule out Daedric involvement entirely, but on the other hand it may be too early to crack that bit of lore and they already did a couple of Daedra-centered things already with Oblivion and Shivering Isles-so odds of a Daedric invasion are pretty low.

As far as the Aedra, again there's an element of flexibility to the lore-after all it is Bethesda who created it all to begin with, and the fact that a lot of the lore comes from in-game books means they can always turn around and say their authors were mistaken or misinformed or couldn't see the whole picture, or that a certain book was a work of fiction.

For example, with my work on Province: Cyrodiil we are looking at different locations that weren't included in Oblivion-one of them was Mir Corrup. The location is mentioned in two books, one of them is obviously intended to be historical (an installment of 2920, the Last Year of the First Era), and the other is a book titled Palla. I read the book and although it provided an interesting story that could produce an interesting bit of back story to the location-it really sounded like a "morality tale" warning of the evils of Necromancy-especially given the twist ending. So for P:C's interpretation of the lore, Palla was a work of fiction, albeit based on an actual place.

The same can be said of the interpretation that the Alduin/Akatosh connection amongst other things are "fairy tales" within the framework of Elder Scrolls lore, and perhaps this is correct, or maybe Bethesda plans on taking this bit of lore more literally. It would be interesting, since it's kinda neat that there's a sort of "chain of events" going on across the Elder Scrolls main series, which each entry having a sort of effect on the next (i.e. the Nerevarine tampering with Lorkahn's heart somehow weakening the barriers with Oblivion)-true the same probably can't be said of Arena->Daggerfall->Morrowind but it's definitely suggested that the events from all the previous games were at least "signs" that Alduin was about to be freed-whether or not they actually had a causal influence still needs to be determined. If Alduin is Akatosh, then it's probably connected to Martin's sacrifice and how he became an avatar for Akatosh.

As for me, I kinda hope that Alduin is Akatosh or at least has some kind of connection that will make things more interesting than Alduin just being some generic evil ancient dragon who wants to "swallow the world". I'd at least like there to be some kind of motivation behind it.

Also, it's kinda funny how the prophecy seems to just be "Red Mountain"-everything else is pretty specific but it's like they're trying not to spoil the plot of Morrowind by mentioning exactly what happened-which I guess sort of makes sense. I mean, it's common knowledge even to people who may not have played Oblivion that the game involves an invasion from another realm-that's basically the entire premise of the game. For Daggerfall and Arena, well there's in-game books that already more-or-less spoil those plot elements anyway and those two games are not nearly as easy to pick up and play for most people. Morrowind however has a complex and elaborate plot where you can't really be sure of the whole picture until near the very end, and even then there's a lot of ambiguity. Plus Oblivion is obviously the more mainstream game so more people have probably experienced its entire plot than Morrowind.

I read all of your guys replys and one thing i would like to point out is Alduin is not Akatosh. The actual Nordic term(or name) for Akatosh is Ysmir. So to say that Alduin is Akatosh is a false statement. :nono:

Uh Ysmir is Talos not Akatosh. The UESP will help you if you want to learn more info.

Actually Ysmir is Talos. He is just called "The Dragon of the North"

Edit: Ah The Terror of Death sniped me!

You're thinking of King Wulfharth or Talos. Not Akatosh.

Alduin does correspond to Akatosh.

Right. because having two Dragon Gods of Time makes more sense than having each culture look at different aspects of what that represents. and having Anduin act exactly the way Akatosh is said to have during the Dawn Era means they can't possibly be the same thing. There is nothing on that wall that suggests they are not the same.

Lorkhan is Akatosh and is not because of the way particular conflicts work in TES. That means that Lorkhan and Akatosh are creator and preserver in addition to being Space and Time respectively. Then along comes a third Dragon-God called Alduin, who is a destroyer. All three of those are aspects of Time, and how it effects space. I know real-world religion is taboo, but think of Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma. All three are aspects/lives of the same being.

And Shadow Agent, Ysmir is Talos. Anduin is Akatosh, as the Nords (and possibly Redguards) view him. Akatosh is how the Imperials and Altmer view him. Lorkhan is the odd-man-out as the Missing God.

Akatosh is a fiery dragon, (As seen in Oblivion) and Alduin is described as a Black dragon.

And Tiber Septim as he appeared in Morrowind looked different than his historical appearance. Why would a god be stuck in a single body? Boethia and Mephala are known to shapeshift, and it's not unlikely that the three Aedric avatars you meet in Morrowind aren't the "true form."

Everyone, get it through your heads that in TES, gods are ambivalent if not outright hostile, and even then if not dead and impotent. The avatar of Akatosh, guided by Martin, did as the Dragonborn pact forced him to do. Now that there is no pact, his Alduin-aspect is free to annihilate the old kalpa and start a new one.

Anyway where is Alduin's Wall going to be. My 1st Guess is Throat Of The World as that's where the Greybeards are. My 2nd guess is some distant cave near the High Rock/Hammerfell Border.

Well right off the bat that just doesn't work, Lorkhan is and never was Akatosh. The very fact that Alduin was banished seems to contradict Alduin being Akatosh. Nowhere, does it say that Alduin is a dragon god of time. The only information given in any lore is that Alduin will destroy the world in a firestorm of destruction. Lore, in real life and those of fictional universes are to be interpreted and these arguments are pointless now that several people from the lore forums keep filing in here attacking my theory saying I have no credibility because I don't post in the lore forums. See, that's how you do it, I interpreted the truth about why they attack me saying I have no credibility is because I am a lore buff that doesn't post there and if I have an alternate theory then they have to discredit me for disagreeing. No matter how much we argue we aren't going to see eye to eye. All the evidence that is being shown for the evidence that Alduin is Akatosh I have already seen and I still don't agree. So, those of you that believe Alduin is Akatosh, you can believe that and I'll believe that he isn't. We will see in November who was correct. Until then just drop the talk because it's pointless due to neither side is going to give an inch seeing as both sides have already seen the evidence and yet the feeling haven't changed.



It annoys me to no end when people use the word Kalpa. Just say the world, kalpa makes it seems like it's something special. Just like people keep saying Akatosh/Auriel, just say Akatosh. Also for the story of how he destroys the old "kalpa" and forms a new one, it isn't actual canon and it also makes no sense. It took so much effort and power to create Mundus and Nirn and yet Akatosh can just come around destroy it and remake everything at will? Not likely.

I agree that Lorkhan isn't akatosh because Lorkhan would never have agreed to the Pact that St. Alessia made. Also the Amulet Of Kings which was made from Akatosh himself. I doubt Lorkhan would've made that artifact. Lastly if Lorkhan was Akatosh then why didn't he help Dagoth Ur destroy Tamirel.

Not just the nordic view, but the elven view supports this. See: Auri-el the Time Dragon(Said to oppose mankind)

Just because you can't understand what they mean by Kalpa doesn't make it invalid. Akatosh is TIME. The idea that time will eventually destroy all things isn't that hard to grasp.

I understand what Kalpa is but a kalpa is a real world term and only shows up in TES lore in a story that isn't even canonical. That term is used way to liberally for a story that isn't actually canon yet. Also it is just the nordic view. The nords view of Alduin doesn't coincide with Akatosh at all. They have nothing in common other than being dragons and even that is tenuous seeing as how they are different looking dragons. The difference is that Auri-el matches the other accounts of Akatosh.