You know, I think Beth kinda got it backwards in a way. But I understand they probably couldn't have seen this far down the road at the time of development. But now that we all know FO:NV is coming out, in retrosoect the whole Mothership Zeta thing would have worked much better (IMO) as a DLC for FO:NV than it did with FO3. I mean, what better of a place to kick off an "alien" centered DLC than Area 51 which is believed to be a super secret gubmint facility with all kinds of alien stuff in it? And it is not that far from Vegas. That would have allowed them to use The Commonwealth as a possible location for a FO3 Dlc. But hind sight is 20/20 as they say, lol.

BTW, I'm not really that concerned whether aliens are cannon or not TBH. I just like the game and could really care less about what is hardcoe cannon or not be, it aliens, androids or mickey mouse.

Why does everyone love area 51? It is the worst kept secret in the damn world. We all know about it. The government would move anything like aliens to another place. Area 51 was just a place to build secret spy planes. Like the A-12. Alot of secret planes can look very funny and even alien. If someone sees one of the governments new secret toys and that person is dumb enough to think it's piloted by men from Mars. The government and air force will be all to happy to play up the alien men form mars story all they can. We all know what area 51 is and what it is for. Many hundreds of people work there over a year. For many years I am sure someone would have found way to get something that can prove aliens.

Anyways aliens don't need to be in fallout we have so much already in the game. Aliens starting the war takes the blame away from man. That is the whole point of fallout. mankind rebuilding from are biggest mistake. Anything alien in fallout 1 and 2 are easter eggs not canon. The makers put easter eggs of aliens into the games fo1/fo2, to give that nod to 50's love of aliens. If they wanted aliens they would have had their own mothership zeta somewhere. but they did not because it does not fit and never will fit just right into fallout. Mothership zeta has not been canonized just yet. It being a DLC I think it should not be. Like the ps2 game Brotherhood of steel is best just left forgotten. Let the aliens return to the mystery and shadows once more were they belong.

At best Mothership Zeta can be called one big easter egg that is in no way canon. It conflicts greatly with the core element that makes fallout, fallout!.
That is aliens staring the great war. Just having that question "did they or did they not? because of that info on the mothership." That alone takes away from Fallout. There should be no question of man starting the great war. Fallout one and fallout 2 make it clear we started it.

Many fallout fans turned against Brotherhood of steel for the same reasons. To many things against canon. To many inconsistencies. Mothership Zeta goes against the Core Heart of Fallout, man starting the great war.

See, the thing about Area 51 in that time frame is that in the Fallout of the incident at Roswell, and even the whole what's really at hanger 18 (Heh heh, i made a funny. OK it wasn't that funny) many people were convinced that there were aliens there, hence the town of roswell is still making money off of that belief today even though we now know what was really going on (sort of. very few people know the full extent)

Back in the fifties, during the sci-fi era, and the space program getting going, and humakind heading into outer space for the first time, it really makes sense to at least have an appearence of a few aliens there, if only dead aliens, or in stasis pods. after all the whole fallout universe is based on 50's lore. Area 51, Hanger 18 and Aliens were definitely mentioned in the same sentence together.
I have stated previously that i really don't like what was done with MZ,by taking an easter egg and turning it into canon... well I didn't make the game nor decide what is canon and what is not, but it doesn't mean I have to like it or even accept it. I'll just pretend like it was all just a bad dream and I'll wake up in the morning.

Yes I do know all about Area 51 and why people think there are aliens there with the Roswell and all. Thing is well all know that. It's not much of a secret. If aliens did crash at roswell the government would not keep them there for long because everyone thinks it will be there.
I also feel that the government would do everything they can to help the ufo people believe aliens are there like I have said before. Project blue book is just that to keep the Nuts looking for UFOS and little green men and not what the government is really up to. Making secret planes to spy on the USSR.

Easter eggs fine. More Mothership zeta crap,NO. Aliens being alive even as an easter egg also a NO.

We get it. You don't like aliens. Wishing Mothership Zeta away doesn't make it somehow not part of canon just because it's DLC. By that logic the Lone Wanderer must have died at the water purifier, and Broken Steel was all just a weird dream that happened while they died. Your argument about the aliens causing the war is a straw man, regardless of how threatened it made you feel. Even if MZ made that claim, which it didn't, it would still be canon because it's a part of Fallout 3.

All the DLC packages are a part of Fallout 3. You taking issue with one of them doesn't change that. BOS wasn't removed from canon because you didn't like it. It was removed because it didn't fit with Bethesda's more serious lore. They might have even rebooted the series completely if they thought they could get away with it.

BoS was not removed from canon by Bethesda it was removed by Black Isle the people that made it. Why? because it messed with Canon so much it was just stupid. Mothership Zeta does have a part where you find the aliens were messing with the codes to the nuclear weapons on earth. This raises the questions "what role did the aliens play in the Great War?." That alone is enough to call Mothership zeta none canon. Humans started the great war. Fallout one and two and even tactics makes this crystal clear. There is not room for the question of aliens. Even just asking what role they may have played in the Great War takes away from the Core Heart and Soul of fallout universe. That is a wasteland created through mankinds greed and hatred of his fellow man. Not some alien conspiracy. Aliens even the hint that they may have been behind it rips that away. It is no longer mankind being the victim of are own failings but to some unknown alien power. That is not fallout!. It is Resistance fallout cross over crap.

the easter egg issues of fallout 1/2 have been talked about enough already.

Aliens do fit a retro-future '50s style, but the retro-future style is only a small part of what the Fallout setting is about. In fact, the retro-future style is more referring to the pre-war culture that is now, for all intents and purposes, dead. Any surviving humans that still reference that culture are only emulating what they've learned from bits and pieces that survived the war. They were never a part of it...it's gone for good.

IMO Bethesda played up the retro-'50s style to the point that it over-shadowed what the setting was originally about: various groups struggling to survive and vying for power in the post-war wasteland. In Black Isle's games any references to the pre-war world were provided almost exclusively for contrast. The seemingly-idyllic, innocent, and yet nuke-paranoid society of the 1950's was a perfect contrast to the bleak, horrific post-war world. The 1950's theme was only hinted-at in pre-war vids, posters, etc. It was almost like a fairy tale that may or may not be true. It wasn't an integral, in-your-face artistic destination in the same way Bethesda used it in Fallout 3. Aliens do fit in with Bethesda's friendly, white bread, "world of tomorrow" Fallout world, but not so much with Black Isle's gritty, dangerous, inhospitable version. There was just much less of a focus on evoking 1950's imagery in Black Isle's games.

In Black Isle's games most people rarely even saw much pre-war tech, and if they did they'd probably think it came from another planet. Most of them were living with 1800's-era technology or worse, and many were even so far removed that they'd reverted to a tribal lifestyle...spears, bows, talking to spirits, and all. Walking into an abandoned research facility full of pre-war tech would be like being on an alien spaceship to an average settler. Having the player character actually interact with aliens face-to-face would have been going too far, and it would have taken some of the edge off the contrast that was established between pre-war and post-war society. That contrast is one of the things I really enjoy about the setting.

Of course, this is all just my opinion.

I do not mean aliens started the war however they have been there I believe that aliens have been captured by the government and there guns have been revere engineered, they haven been in the game for so long to be a special encounter like you said they were a joke but you know the saying when used to much the joke stops been funny then is not a joke anymore, i believe they made it as a joke but saw it could explain the tech, plaser weapons

Raising the question might be enough to annoy you, but annoying you doesn't make something non-canon. I don't believe Black Isle had the authority to strip BOS from canon. Interplay owned Black Isle, Interplay shut down Black Isle, and Interplay was making Brotherhood of Steel 2 and Fallout Tactics 2 at the time they laid off the last of their studios. Bethesda decides canon now. Fallout 3 is canon. Mothership Zeta is part of Fallout 3. This is inarguable. You don't have the authority to claim something isn't canon just because you have a beef with it.

As far as the aliens go, if they ever got the codes, at best they'd be able to radio transmit the order to a missile silo. This same tactic could work in real life, regardless of whether the people giving the fake order were aliens or not. It would basically be like Dr. Strangelove. It would only work if the people firing the missiles acted without the ability to confirm their orders. It would still be about the paranoia of cold wars and mutually assured destruction strategies. It would still be about the folly of man.

BUT...that's a big maybe. We can't even say that for sure, Bethesda left it deliberately hazy, so why make a bigger deal about it than we have to? The only parts of it that we know for sure are that aliens exist, which fits fine enough by itself. You're acting like the series is in danger of becoming completely centered around the aliens. Even if we assumed the aliens were secretly behind everything...no one but the Lone Wanderer even has more than a small hint at it. At best it's there for the irony. You're never going to hear the narrator talking about "When the aliens landed...WAR CHANGED." Get realistic. If Bethesda was too afraid of changing things to include a new faction in Fallout 3, why would they totally change the tone of the story in future games by making the aliens their own faction?



I get what you're saying, the imagery of 3 was way more about remains of the old world than about the rebuilt settlements. I haven't played much of the RPG originals, so my image of them is slightly based on the PS2/Xbox BOS game, sadly. There was certainly more of a western-80's punk fusion style to the rebuilt wasteland, but aliens as they exist now don't mess with that. If the aliens ever became another player in the battle in the wasteland it could totally screw up the core themes, but that hasn't happened and I don't think there's any reason to assume Bethesda would make that big of a mistake. If they include Area 51, it'll probably just be the same story that's been getting retold since the 50's. A UFO crashed and they're holding onto the ship and maybe some bodies and whatever technology came down with the craft. It'll probably just be another way for the player to get alien energy weapons.

Given how much Fallout 3 clung to the old factions, I seriously doubt that either New Vegas or Fallout 4 are going to fall apart into some story about man versus aliens.

Yes I agree with you, because if it's really was the Americans that launch the nukes first, Richardson wouldn't try to cover it and instead he's going to tell the truth and apologize to the public in the Enclave Radio or at least to the Chosen One during their conversation. I mean, it's not like he's the head of the most powerful shadow government built among conspiracies and government cover-up so there's no reason for him to not telling the truth.

Very good point also something to add it's funny how people try to cover up these aliens as cannon like the US goverment does lol

Well if aliens are canon, then I guess Dr. Who, Monty Python Sketches and Godzilla are canon too!

No, no. It's my opinion too. Glad to know I'm not alone. :foodndrink:

See here's the thing about this "canon" word that everyone's throwing around. The only way that it makes any sense (to me, at least,) or has any relevance within discussion of an open-world videogame, is in reference to things that "have" to have happened within the game. All Fallout 3 DLC is part of the game, yes, but when people start making claims of what is and is not this "canon" thing, it gives me thoughts of absolute events that - by virtue of their new-found canonicity - are given elevated importance. As far as I'm concerned, there's a world of difference between stuff that's quite simply "part of the game" (for lack of a better term,) and those elements which are given solid "canon" status.

The whole "point" of DLC is that you can take it or leave it. If Bethesda thought that any of the DLC was so extremely important that the player just had to experience it if they wanted the "official Fallout 3 experience," then they would have put that stuff in the base game.

What some of us read into the statement "Aliens are Canon," is not simply a statement that aliens exist to some variable degree within the internal fiction of the Fallout franchise, but an insistence upon accepting the "awesomeness" of that existence as well. There is a crashed alien spacecraft in Fallout 3, that you may or may not come across during the course of your playthrough. That's inarguable - it's there. I don't even think that's all that big of a deal, and I don't think all that many people really have a problem with that encounter. But I also see a bit of a difference between just accepting that as part of a game, as opposed to elevating that one element to the exalted "canon" status.

Because the fact is that if I happen to finish the game without exploring every single square inch of the game map - I'll still have "completed" Fallout 3. That building with all the plungers stuck all over the wall is in the game, as well, and I'm still not getting the "complete" experience if I miss it in more explorations - but it's not such an important thing that I can't be said to have played Fallout 3 unless I experience that particular area. That's the same way I feel about aliens. Sure, they're there. There's no denying that. I'm not saying their presence goes against "canon," but at the same time it's not so incredibly important an element that I particularly need people telling me to accept it's elevated status as a matter of course.

This another reason I find this whole thing to be rather silly. Because while I haven't played Mothership Zeta - something that by virtue of it being DLC I can play or ignore as I see fit, according to my personal preferences - I also don't harbor any realistic worries that Fallout 4 will see us with GleepGlop the curmudgeonly little green man with a heart of gold and our quest to rally the "good aliens" against the evil forces of the impending alien overlords. Bethesda got the whole alien thing out of it's system with MZ, and while I fully expect to see some further special encounters on occasion in subsequent games, I don't think it's something that there's any real danger of it getting blown out of proportion.

(ie, I'm not saying aliens specifically go "against canon," but it also doesn't mean that I have any perogative to accept any claims that it's such an important element that we simply have to call it "canon.")

Bah, I'll always believe they are not canon, and that their appearance in Mothership Zeta was a joke DLC, not a serious one.
I do recall the devs being interviewed about MZ, saying it was DLC only to have fun and make fun of the aliens.

So, for me, they are not canon and Beth has not made them canon with their DLC.

You know, it's almost like the real-life debate about whether or not aliens really exist.

I think it's pretty fair to say that if you don't want aliens to be playing a major role in the Fallout series, that there's probably not a whole lot to worry about. I honestly don't see Fallout 4 expanding upon that subject matter to any serious degree. I'd imagine there's still going to be some minor encounter that's really little more than a macguffin to set you up with the Alien Blaster, but I'd be suprised if it were any more extensive than the crashed alien spaceship. And I don't think there's much point in getting terribly upset over one isolated incident.

On the other hand, if you do like the thought of aliens in Fallout - then you've already got the Mothership Zeta DLC. There's really no need to make sure that everyone agrees that it was a "must-buy" DLC. The important thing in that instance is whether or not you, personally, enjoyed playing through it. If you did, then I don't see how any of us who decided to ignore that particular DLC are going to take away from that enjoyment.

In other words, I kind of see the current situation as a win/win. If you don't want a bunch of little green men mixed into the Fallout franchise, then all you really have to worry about is one encounter in the Wasteland (which I didn't particularly have a problem with,) and a DLC which you can easily ignore (since if you never played it, then I think it's fair to say that in regards to an open-world game where each player's experience is supposed to be unique, that it "never happened.") And of course, if you do like aliens - then you have DLC which expands upon that concept.

I consider all official material canon. By releasing something like MZ, Bethesda is basically saying that aliens exist in their particular version of reality. Whether or not we purchase this specific material is irrelevant. It's there.

nu_clear_day, I see what you mean when you say "if it was that important, they'd have included it in the base game" but that actually doesn't make sense to me. By that logic, you can choose to not buy Fallout 3 vanilla and claim nothing in that game is Fallout canon simply because you didn't get it. They made it, they sold it and people got it -- that makes it part of the Fallout experience and universe. Therefore, it's canon. The only way for them to get rid of the aliens now is by retconning the [censored] out of it.

The Fallout universe, however, appears to be more of a string of unconnected stories than anything else, so that makes it easy for both the developers and us customers to ignore all previous and future stories.

Aliens are canon in Fallout 3, so what? They're a lot more plausible than Super Mutants imho!

Later

All I'm saying is that the "canonicity" of aliens in Fallout is largely irrelevant. Not only that, but we're probably lacking proper terminology to describe events within a game that's supposed to be an "open world" RPG (ie, it's nominally about each player's unique and largely subjective experiences.) I think there's a difference between what's "in the game," and things that we need to set up on a pedestal as "canon." I think I've said this before in previous threads, where the only way that "canon" has any relevance in a series like this is in reference to things that need to occur for the continuing story arc to make sense.

In Fallout 1, for example, the "canon" story is that you saved Tandi from the Raiders and that you at least made sure Arroyo was able to thrive after the events of the game. Those two things need to be canon in order for the NCR in Fallout 2 to exist (and because if Tandi died in Fallout 1, you wouldn't be able to meet her as an old woman in Fallout 2.) That's canon. As far as I'm concerned, almost nothing in Fallout 3 is anything we need to consider as canon - simply because there's been no further iterations that need to make use of it.

And I've already said this in regards to aliens in Fallout - it's a win/win already, without having to get bogged down in terminology. DLC exists for each player to customize and expand their gaming experience as they see fit. If you want Horse Armor in Oblivion, it's there for you to purchase (or not) depending on whether or not you want it. There's no reason to bother with worrying about whether or not everyone agrees if it's "canon" that horses in Oblivion wore armor. Ditto with the aliens thing. If you like the idea of aliens, then there's already extra content for you to purchase which expands upon that notion.

However, if my character never got abducted by aliens, then I think it's safe to say that - as far as my own personal game experience is concerned - that it never happened. If Fallout 4 comes along and there's a big subplot dealing with the results of your character getting abducted by aliens during Fallout 3, then yeah - that would then become part of the official "canon" of the series. It would be necessary in order to maintain internal consistency within the open-world parameters.

Otherwise, we're talking about whether or not the presence of a crashed alien spaceship sets a precedent for aliens being an integral part of the Fallout narrative. Yes, my characters in Fallout have come across a total of two alien spacecraft, and seen a total of 3 (two next to the ship in Fallout 1, and the one in the cockpit in Fallout 3,) dead alien bodies. That's in the game, and I don't have a problem saying that those were things that "happened."

But I'd be very suprised if any future Fallout games really expanded much terribly further than that. Much as in real life, I figure there's aliens in the Fallout world; but that they're largely busy doing their own thing. Whatever they're doing, I doubt it's really going to have much of an impact upon the core narrative. Their presence is in the game, they exist. But they're not necessary for internal consistency, therefore I don't see as how whether or not they're considered "canon" is relevant. If you like aliens in Fallout, then so much the better. I don't really see how it's important to anyone that I become as convinced of their importance as everyone else.

If we go by what Bethesda did with their TES Series, Aliens may be canon, but only as a far-off rumor, I.E. "Did you hear that the Lone Wanderer was abducted by aliens? Or so they say..."

In all liklihood, Aliens will probably never get the limelight they got in MZ, just because of player reaction to it (If there's one thing we can say, it's that Bethesda listens to their supporters.) This, however, doesn't stop another Crash Site popping up or other similar easter-eggs.

At any rate, IMO, we don't know enough about that Lauch Codes recording to make a definitive yes/no statement... for all we know, the Aliens just wanted to take recordings of Earthling speech, and the soldier though that they wanted the ICBM Launch Codes... (this line of thought is supported by the Cow Recording and the subject range of recordings we find.)

1. The Aliens forced him to tell them the codes as you can hear his pain when he tried resist their telepathic powers. (you can hear the aliens asking the question to him)
2. It was a pop culture reference where Aliens believe that Cows are the superior sentient species over human because of some mistake with numbers made by Aliens scientists.

1.) Now that's new; how do you hear the aliens asking specifically about the launch codes? They're speaking gibberish (to me, at least...) A Quick Check on the Vault revealed that their transcipts are listed as (Alien Babble). And besides, it's pretty shaky evidence considering that all the other recordings hold little in the way of useful information...

2.) Actually, the cow recording makes sense if you've followed the Secret Brahmin Language in FO1 and FO2...

So you think Fallout Brotherhood of Steel for PS2 is Canon as well. wow, if so you are the first fallout fan I ever came across that thinks that. What about Furry talking death claws in fallout tactics?

It is a DLC. Aliens are part of fallout but only as easter eggs. They have been a nod to the 1950's love of aliens. They did not belong as a faction or have any quests around them. So black isle just made them easter eggs.

Easter eggs are not canon. If they are dr.who, godzilla, star trek are as well.

The crashed alien ship in fallout 3 was just that and easter egg. should have been made a special encounter. Aliens don't have a role to play in fallout. Fallout is man living with it's own man made mistakes and learning to rebuild. Aliens Starting the great war changes that. Even hinting, raising the possibility that aliens did start it goes against the canon, that man alone started the great war. Therefore Mothership Zeta goes against Canon, the main point of the fallout series. So that makes it not canon. mothership Zeta changes the story of fallout.

Aliens as eater eggs only is part of fallout yes. Mothership Zeta or anything like it No.

Actually I thoroughly enjoyed MZ, but it would have been interesting to see some info as to why that alien ship crashed in the DC area. MZ felt like an addon to the game, but in a small aspect where aliens where there taking specimens from the planet. You the wanderer just happened to be investigating the crash site while you were picked up by the green little space turds.

As for aliens being canon i'm not a true FO lore purist *or for that matter knowledgeable about FO at all*, but again it really felt like MZ didn't intrude on anything. Not like it completely wizzed on the entire store of FO from what i've seen.

uhh....MZ stated that aliens caused the Great War. That the apocalypse was the result of alien interference rather than man's greed.

Thats a pretty big change.

1. Game Logic, what we found is not all recordings that exist, and about the Aliens babbling, After the prisoner stopped telling the Aliens about DC garrison they babble about something and he appeared to understand them and refused to answer (the theory is that Alien speak with telepathy and the babbling was actually some sort of telepathic wave, I got this from the vault) and then the Aliens babble harder and then you can hear his pain as he try to resist.
2.Well, that's also... (I can't believe I forgot that)