To start off i only have played TES games since Morrowind..So i'm not really a veteran when it comes to this franchise but i know enough.
I've been surfing the forums and i see a lot of complaint threads and i guess this is kind of a complaint to the complainers which might cause this thread to be closed. But regardless i feel that i should try to defend this game to the best of my ability.
The RPG genre has changed a lot over the past years with games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age claiming to be "RPG's" and because of this, these kids these days feel that a RPG is a 40 hour third person shooter or hack n slasher. Which is sad. BUT Bethesda has the nerve to bring out a game that some of these RPG producers could never come close to and thats Skyrim. This game may not be the most deep and have the most skills or the most customization but what it does have is a ROLE PLAYING aspect to the game. Which i feel a lot of these "RPG's" lately forget about so apart from all the knit pick [censored] I'm playing Skyrim the way its meant to be played and thats immersing myself in the world and look at the game in a big picture outlook. I'm personally just thankful that there is finally some type of "old school" RPG on the shelves of our local stores. I'm gonna keep this thread short and just leave it at that. I'm sure i will have a lot of trolling and flaming but whatever if thats what some of you Daggerfall fans wanna do then i guess that shows your immaturity.

Disagreeing with you shows immaturity?

the thing is... if the game would not be dumbed down (it is), they would have sold the identical amount of copies. there is no anonymous mass of dumb gamers who do not like MORE rpg elements. i will not say, that skyrim ist bad (it is great). But it really has no interesting character customizaion and therefor little replay value. sorry for bad english.

I don′t understand your problem with complaining? i disagree to most complainings here but nevertheless most make sense and have a point. And your immaturity-condition...well that can also be interpreted as a not very advlt behaviour.

Double post.

To above post - Its true. Im lvl 18 and the more I play, the more I doubt that my character skills will be able to make me strong enough for the enemy level scaling.

Plus, eleminating skills and features from previouse games is dumbing down to me.

Yeah, it's dumbed down on many things, but this is only a bad thing if you take the negative connotation of the expression. I call it streamlined. It got rid of dead weight and introduced a more straightforward approach. It could have used more adjustments and could have been expanded if they had the time, but I think it's a good direction.

I'm a better man now.

You're right that Bioware are FAR worse for dumbing down the RPG genre... but that doesn't exactly excuse some of the decisions Bethesda have made with Skyrim. People have a right to voice their concerns.

Skyrim is really good in alot of ways and you can tell the developers who made it were passionate about their product which is a rarity these days. The RPG aspects are indeed dumbed down and I wish there were more unique dialog choices and consequences but aside from that I think the gameworld is fantastic.

Yes, dumbed down could sound a litte harsh. But they took a lot realy good gameplay away (spellmaking!!, beeing faster with more speed, no artificial restriction with buying spells, etc.). those things could have unbalanced the game a lot, but they were essential in oblivion and morrowind. so i cannot quite understand to remove all these features. but anyway: construction kit is on its way

op you complain at complainers then say anyone who disagrees is immature. that to ne is immature, get a grip...

it is a step in the right direction your right. all in all it is a good game i just feel like it could of used some sort of attribute system not oblivions more fallout 3...

It's fascinating to see the reaction of some people when you criticize something they like. It's like they think you're trying to take something away from them and they MUST defend it. And the will overlook anything to do it.

This is the price of past success, appeal to larger audiences and extra-hyped propaganda.

The single biggest complaint I see on the forums is related to higher expectations. Your complaint is actually just an opinion and I see no reason for this to be locked.

True - it must be annoying to check the threads and find an increasing amount of ppl complaining but Beth brought this upon themselves. When you propose the 'play freely whatever you wanna be' - given the factors mentioned above - you must be prepared to face criticism. And even if only 1% are the ones who complain, if they sum up to a 1,000 guys then you will read 1,000 topics to this svcks et al. Because we all paid the same $, and those who feel cheated are always gonna voice this.

The price of running a business (which most of us seem to forget that is what Beth really is).

I think most of the flaming and trolling comes from being sick of the argument. I'm also fascinated by those that believe their personal gripe is a game issue, rather than a personal preference issue of their own.

Personally I think Morrowind favoured pen and paper roleplaying, but came under fire for the "But I can SEE ME HITTING IT.. why am I not HITTING it", and took the franchise from oblivion onwards into a live-action roleplaying style which implements personal skill as well as character sheet skill into a game.

Live Action Roleplaying, whilst based on simplifying mechanics is far from being less of a roleplaying game than pen and paper, they both have their strengths, but when you rate the mechanism based on a premise of pen and paper, you are bound to find flaws. This doesn't mean they are flaws at all, simply that you are expecting it to be something its not trying to be.

I played Daggerfall and when Morrowind came out there was tons of people complaining about the new game. I mean tons of people!

Thanks for posting. There just are not enough of these pointless posts in this forum.

Fixed. (for me personally)

I thought Skyrim was a perfectly good mixture of Morrowind and Oblivion at first, but there are a lot of perfectly good features that have simply been thrown out of the window.
Can you really blame anyone for being upset at that? I sure can't.

Precisely my point. Morrowind is arguably the first truly believable world graphics wise, it looked spectacular at the time.. and once the game becomes overtly visual, it clashes with what is observed.. such as the "But I can see ME hitting it.. its a flaming rock with claws.. a baby could hit it". The imagination and suspension of disbelief pen and paper roleplay demands was compromised and the basic reaction was as I said.. convert the series into a live action roleplay.

I wasn't around for the release of Daggerfall, so I can't comment on the complaints about that.

But its simply misleading to assume that the simplification of mechanics for live action roleplay makes it less of a roleplaying game.. it simply makes greater demands on the player to remain in character when it is not enforced by the rule mechanisms.

EDIT: I would like to add a slight disclaimer that, for the transition to "live roleplay" as I put it, has made quite a number of concessions that weren't really necessary. Sooner or later I think the series, or at least Computer RPG's will develop so that CRPG will finally take advantage of the best of both worlds. This is my hope for the evolution of this series.

You are talking about not being able to hit monster main thing in changes from Morrowind to Skyrim.But what about Morrowinds 90 type of monsters to 30 in Skyrim,about removing seperate armor pieces,about removing pauldrons,greaves,wrists,belt,2 rings,mysticism,spell making,about Morrowinds more joinable factions,more faction quests,bigger main quest,etc..

Yeah, people seem to take personal offense if others don't share the same perfect, rose-tinted view of a game they like. It's silly really.

If they get so wound up over the criticisms found on these forums, I can only begin to imagine how they'd react if they ever saw what places like the RPG codex have to say about Bethesda and the Elder Scrolls series. TES is to them what games like Fable III are to a lot of TES fans... utter crap.

If you like old RPGs, play old RPGs. If you like Skyrim, play Skyrim.

Removing the number of different "kinds" of stuff only means that there was more work put into the stuff that was in there. For instance, is it really necessary to have all those armor parts morrowind had? How much does it cost to put all that in and to balance it out and how much more fun do you get out of it?

Simply put, this game has an amazing amount of content and to get more, you'd simply had to wait a lot longer until it was finished. I'd think most people would want it as it is now and maybe have more stuff later through mods/dlcs. I know I would.

Ha, didn't need to respond, Smig more or less nailed it.

My only addition is that these things are sacrificial lambs to the god of Graphics & Sound. I honestly don't think people understand how much work has to be put into creating Skyrim landscapes and cities compared to earlier games which could use the same time on content.

The game would be too heavy on development for the best of both worlds. I miss the depth of some games.. but I am thrilled and completely enjoying the amount of things they managed to squeeze into Skyrim to worry about it just now.

I agree completely.

All the options are still there,

If you wanna use short blades like Morrowind, instead of building up that extremely particular skill, you just use short blades and pick some sweet sneaky back stabbing perks.

"Light" RPG's are huge now, but they managed to make an amazing game that still has all of the freedom WE expect and yet still be open and accessible to that sort of fan base.

It's win, win. And like it or not, thats the only game in town. And any way, I know A LOT of you would be complaining NO MATTER WHAT they did.