I can accept this system in those games that you play on a table with actual dice, but not in a 3D game which in all other terms is supposed to be mimicking reality. At least in some aspects.
If I press jump I want my character to jump and when I press the button to go forward I want him to go forward. Luckily that isn′t decided by dice at least

So we went from a "player's skill takes a back seat to stats" to "character's skill isn't even used". Neither is right, and I don't really care for the combat systems in either MW or OB. The problem is different, but there's still a fundamental problem with each of them, and it doesn't sound like Skyrim addressed the underlying issue either. To me, that's a "lateral move", not an improvement. I will agree that MW's combat wasn't "better".

Yes, a clean hit on a target not defending themselves would be very damaging. Now consider the odds of an unskilled combatant landing a clean blow on an enemy, when both are fighting for their life. Poor strikes and glancing are far more likely than a clean hit, since both are trying to avoid being hit as well as land a hit on the enemy, but Morrowind has no way of showing this.

It's more a problem with the animations vs the system in morrowind. They couldn't show the dodges, feints, etc (look at unarmed... you get armor wearing nothing! but you don't dodge or roll out of the way) of the combat just the attacks.

Oblivion had the same problem, but they worked around it with scaling damage instead and always hitting a target.

Without proper animations Morrowind's combat system will always remain lacking, it just feels weird. I mean I got used to it back then, but everytime I play it now I go back to magic, it just works better for me.

A perfect system that only counts your skill but still looks awesome would be great, but near impossible to create. Everytime I would miss the NPC would have do a move that makes it logical for me to miss, that is just going to become absurd in a short period of time. Personally I like the style in Skyrim more then in Morrowind, even if it does mean I have to block myself and what not.

i like the way that people discuss this thread in the Morrowind forums, i made a thread pretty much the same in the Skyrim section saying why i thought it was better than Skyrim's and i got 9 pages of "The Elder Scrolls Morrowind is the greatest game in the history of the universe. because you missed all the time".

I agree. Morrowind's combat animation system allows me to roleplay in my imagination more, pretending that when my character hits a mudcrab with a tanto and misses, she may have swung and the mudcrab backed up and missed my hit, or I hit its shell, or when I swung at its face, it bit the pommel of my sword and hurt my hand and I lost my grip, etc... Morrowind just requires more animation, is all.

I din't hate it at all, but i do like Oblivon's and Skyrims's combat better. That said, i started about my 7234237 playthrough of Morrowind just before Skyrim came out, even after 6 years of Oblivion and 138 hours of Skyrim (so far) going back to Morrowind for yet another playthrough and the combat does not bother me one single bit.

I think Skyrim has attracted a lot of new fans, most of which prefer a fast pace action adventure type game rather than slow paced RPG's such as Morrowind.

I've never had a problem with the combat system in Morrowind. Way back when I first played the game it made perfect sense to me. My skills with any given weapon are poor at the star of the game, so my effectiveness with those weapons would be equally poor. I did what any RPG player would do and trained on weaker enemies until my skills were efficient. In time I was slaying enemies with no problems at all, never missing a shot, slash or stab.

I feel a lot of gamers are just too impatient and don't want to take the time necessary to train their skills up in Morrowind. Instead they're looking for instant gratification and end up walking away disappointed.

It is weak (by today's standards) but then it was great at the time and fit perfectly with those of us that were used to dice rolling RPG's especially the DnD games.

Personally I don't care much for the new games where everyone is spinning around and leaping about like a kung fu movie and slicing arms and heads off with great gushers of blood spewing dozens of feet away while whirling swords that in the real world would probably weigh 200lbs.

But then again, I'm a weird player that really enjoys the exploration far more than violent acts. Morrowind's big asset is that great treasures can be found at any player level and sometimes available just by being a low level thief.

Actually Archery is one combat type that feels really natural at mid to high levels in morrowind, aiming the bow actually matters

It′s exactly the same for me in any game, Oblivion included. I don′t play to fight, I play to explore although the occasional fight isn′t too unwelcome every now and then

I dislike the combat system too, that′s why I play a mage. Problem solved.
Not playing a mage in MW means missing out on tons of fun anyway.
*hovers above some bandits and starts flinging fireballs*

But it′s not *all* that bad. It can be ok, once you′re skilled enough not to miss so often.

I don't mind Morrowind's system - it just gets the job done. The combat is in no way the main focus of the game, and while I do really like Skyrim's, that's because Skyrim has more action elements. Morrowind works well with the rest of the game, making you rely on the loot you find rather than personal skill. Sure, it can be a bit jarring missing someone right in front of you, but if you can ignore that it's fine. And becomes almost unnoticeable at around level 7.

Combat system doesn't bother me at all.Animations do,however.

I never had any problem with the combat system of morrowind. Maybe it was because i played fallout 2 before, in which skill proficency affected accuracy too. Funny thing is morrowind gets all the hate but i seldom hear people complaining about fallout. I think its because the 3d first person view may give the false impression than morrowind is an action game instead of an rpg, while fallout 2 being isometric looked very similar to the average turn based rpg.

I think you hit the sweet spot here

I have to say that the combat system made perfect sense to me, coming from a DnD background. Indeed, the main issue is that the animations weren't able to reflect the background calculations. That said, when I started playing Oblivion, I was excited to hit things I was swinging at, and Skyrim's combat system is an improvement over OB's, in my opinion. In the end, though, combat's never been my main focus in a TES game; I'm content to explore and role-play. To this day, I don't find Morrowind's combat terrible, just different, even if I wouldn't necessarily want to go back to it without some overhaul to the animations.

Agreed indeed. I have no real problem with Morrowind′s combat system now, but coming from Oblivion it was kinda strange to miss a stand-still mudcrab at point blank range. I can see though what they were going for, and now my character has grown and always hits his target

Only at the starting levels did I have problems with MW combat. Like any other game once I got used to it, I never gave it another thought. It was easy to imagine my opponent was dodging and blocking. Just wish the animation would have been able to show that. Would have been nice but no biggie.


Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Yes, yes, yes. That's exactly what's been missing from the last two games. Oh, the power of levitation and being able to say "I am THE Archmage, I am someone to fear. You will bow before me or fry." Of course they never bowed and always died in a fiery storm.

lol. Yes, the "skill" required to click a mouse! To push "w" or "s" and click!

The system was the first step at adding and improving the combat over daggerfall. The dice style was carried over because at the time it was the way to do things, and it works as a role play mechanic. In fact I liked the basics of it. The flaws were more game engine and computing limitations, like the apparent non existence of weopon speed related to weopon weight. I dont care for personnally how that dunmer trying to slice me up with their dagger swings about as often as that nord with a hammer that must weigh at least 100 times what the dagger does. I really miss the dynamics of the damage difference dependant on swing type and that depended on the weopon type. I miss how agility and skill played a factor in to hit calculations. I miss the variety of types. I miss a lot of what morrowing had, what daggerfall had. I welcome some of the changes also from the older system. I truly hope the next TES game takes what they have and adds back all the missing stuff.

It is an easy trap to get caught in, comparing Morrowind to a new game and saying "they should have done it better". The game is like a decade old. its like comparing a new Core 7 computer to a pentium 3 800mgz. and saying "they should have done it better". lol, look at the system requirements for morrowind for pete's sake. something like 200mghz processor or something. The point is, one needs to look at the game and system as a comparrison to it's peers. And it stood well above those in almost all regards. The fact people play it still, even buy it to download still after a decade should speak to that.

I stated I didn't like the system when I played the game for the first time either. It's nothing to do with comparing it to the times.

And by your argument, nothing requires skill. Playing football just means kicking and passing at the right time. Driving is just pressing pedals and turning a wheel in the right order. My skill controlling my character, dodging attacks, choosing the best combat tactic, that's a LOT more skilful than a formula that determines if I should hit something or not.

I think they should have put in one "always hit" type weapon, and then simply made it weak. Something like that iron dagger you get in the release office -- it's not horribly out of character for a person living in the wilds of a medieval world to have at some point learned the skill of hunting with a dagger. The rest I'd leave alone. It's annoting not to be able to fight no matter what, but I shouldn't be able to hande just anything I find. Miss animations are a nice idea, but I think the silliness of having a kid who just came from the sticks suddenly be a master at every weapon he picks up. Most could handle a knife, perhaps, but not a claymore.

I dont really have any major problem with it, I would prefer a blend between it and Skyrim's though. Melee combat required greater skill in Morrowind but was also limited as you could only make a few motions. (admittedly that seemed epic at the time) I want the fast paced nature of real combat with the necessity for skill and planning over random button mashing