To all the people who think the game is too easy... : V - Skyrim

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:04 am

There are kids as young as 12 who are in some of the most prestigious colleges in the world. Physicists, scientists, mathemeticians all under legal drinking age in the US.

I'm glad the game doesn't require me to be a certain "age" to accomplish something. It's a useless restriction.

I'm honestly kind of tired of hearing how smithing is so 'easy'. It's only easy if you allow it to be, by purchasing all the ingots and using the cheapest, smallest item to level up. The game ALLOWS you to do that simply because it's a playstyle and some people WANT to do that.

If you don't want to powerlevel, don't. Mine all your ore. Make different items.

Please, please stop asking the game to restrict PLAYER knowledge from CHARACTER knowledge. This is a TRUE RPG- in which you as the player, are expected to set the rules for what your character can and cannot do, instead of the game telling you what to do. That's why people love the TES series.

Agreed. If you smith WHAT YOU NEED, the crafting part of the game is actually a lot more difficult. Who needs 500 daggers and 500 hide bracers. I've personally tried this cheap trick to upping smithing and made like 150 daggers from iron, sigh, it ruins the point of smithing for me. I prefer going it, making my iron armor, upgrading it, then leaving and having my adventure.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:45 pm

...why not choose other less combat related perks such as speech or lockpick and enjoy those perks while still having the combat challenge you desire?

Imagine these 2 scenarios which both equal the same combat challenge level....which would you rather have?

1.). Take 3 levels of heavy armor making game easy thus bumping up difficulty to completely wipe out those 3 perks

Or

2.). Take no heavy armor and instead invest in 2 speech and 1 pickpocket and enjoy those perks and do not raise difficulty and have challenging combat plus other perks

I do this anyway by having a build that makes sense.

My rogue thief is an archer, not a swords person so her backup weapons are dual daggars. No swords, axes etc. Since hand to hand combat is a last resort, I put zero perks into smithing. Since my light armors are all enchanted (Thieves Guild and DB) I cannot improve them at all. Perks go into light armor, sneak, pick pocket and archery.

So yeah she's still a stealth BEAST on expert difficulty but she still gets into trouble from time to time and one shotted by The drauger with the "Ro Da" and an Ebony bow.

This isn't self nerfing so much as making a build that makes SENSE for the character I've created as opposed to power levelling a combat demi god (which I was guilty of my first char which I ended up deleting at level 37).

My next char will be a dual wielding light armor warrior and I will fill up the light armor, one handed and smithing perk trees but I will not TOUCH the archery or sneak trees.

So far this has kept the game reasonably fun (still a little easy but I get my a$$ humbled on occasion).

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:03 pm

This opens the door to: do you think you had high expectations? Acknowledging these were issues in previous titles, how were you not expecting some or all of these issues to return? I'm not excusing lack of progression and I'm not saying it's 'ok' to sit back on their laurels and just say it's fine. I just don't see that they did that. The AI in this game is so much more complex than previous titles. The coding is so much more complex. We've seen what even a simple patch can do- they can't even fix the game without breaking something else. I feel personally that they didn't have the time to invest in creating yet more code to give you what you're looking for.

Asking why I didn't expect these issues to return is like asking why I expect any improvement in the series from game to game. Just because it was an issue in previous games doesn't mean it gets to magically be ignored when a new game comes out. Also, unlike in previous Elder Scrolls games, you don't even have to go out of your way to nullify any possible challenge this game throws at you. You just have to decide to level the wrong skills.

Which is:

1) Still more investment than paying a trainer like in previous games.

2) Not something your character would know or naturally do to progress.

1.) You can still pay a trainer to level your skills, with the exact same limitations as Oblivion. That's an entirely separate issue.

2.) No, it isn't, but it's still the most efficient way to level the skill. Gamers tend to try and be efficient, so this is Bethesda's fault for designing the skill the way that they did. Also, you don't have to craft Dagger Mountain to get smithing to 100, and without much of a challenge in doing so (especially if you've made that skill one of your focuses).

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:29 pm

Agreed. If you smith WHAT YOU NEED, the crafting part of the game is actually a lot more difficult. Who needs 500 daggers and 500 hide bracers. I've personally tried this cheap trick to upping smithing and made like 150 daggers from iron, sigh, it ruins the point of smithing for me. I prefer going it, making my iron armor, upgrading it, then leaving and having my adventure.

Crafting what you need results in a huge excess of materials that end up just sitting around. Where do you think merchants get the stuff they sell? Someone has to craft it and sell it to them so they can resale it. Either that or it is sold directly to them, but the loot sold to them had to be crafted by someone else. Someone is crafting the stuff. Where do you think the Stormcloaks or Imperial Army get their stuff?

Typing this post up for some strange reason makes me want to see a mod that adds radiant crafting quests. Armies need to get their weapons from somewhere, why not the player? Crafting contracts might make crafting seem better integrated into the game.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:58 am

Crafting what you need results in a huge excess of materials that end up just sitting around. Where do you think merchants get the stuff they sell? Someone has to craft it and sell it to them so they can resale it. Either that or it is sold directly to them, but the loot sold to them had to be crafted by someone else. Someone is crafting the stuff. Where do you think the Stormcloaks or Imperial Army get their stuff?

Typing this post up for some strange reason makes me want to see a mod that adds radiant crafting quests. Armies need to get their weapons from somewhere, why not the player? Crafting contracts might make crafting seem better integrated into the game.

No matter how you boil it down, people who say "craft only what you need" really mean "just don't level the skill."

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:13 am

That brings us back to the question I keep asking but no one answers: how is this any different than any other TES game?

I posit that the AI has been greatly improved. It's not perfect, but it is better than previous games. But people want to complain about how 'easy' and 'exploitable' everything is in this game.

Did no one in this thread play a previous TES game? Anyone?

I know I'm getting snarky, I apologize. I'm just really frustrated that no one will acknowledge this.

If you look at it that way they are similar yes. However I have a much easier time cheesing the AI into a corny death on Skyrim. I dont see my style of combat as exploiting. Im not going to stand and take hits. Thats just common sense. This is something that needs some improvement wouldn't you say? 10 years from now I would like to say AI has improved. Skyrim is about equal to 10 years ago. While skill and character progression may stay the same, that's ok. AI needs to improve and move on. They can stand for some better options in combat no?

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:33 am

This isn't self nerfing so much as making a build that makes SENSE for the character I've created as opposed to power levelling a combat demi god (which I was guilty of my first char which I ended up deleting at level 37).

What if someone wanted to naturally play a warrior? Or mage?

BTW you can craft pretty powerful weapon without spending perks into blacksmith. Not stupid OP, but you can buy necessary materials from alchemy and armor vendor for the right modifiers to upgrade your gear into decent level so that you can avoid getting one shotted. Seriously this isn't about being sarcastic, just trying to let you know that you can help yourself here, unless you are roleplaying someone who is allergic to crafting.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:38 pm

Asking why I didn't expect these issues to return is like asking why I expect any improvement in the series from game to game. Just because it was an issue in previous games doesn't mean it gets to magically be ignored when a new game comes out. Also, unlike in previous Elder Scrolls games, you don't even have to go out of your way to nullify any possible challenge this game throws at you. You just have to decide to level the wrong skills.

Sorry, my fault for wording that incorrectly. You're right- we should expect progression from game to game. What I meant was, when you started to see there were similar concerns for you, how did you not balance that out the same way you did in previous titles? I'm assuming you enjoy the TES series and got something out of them to return again for Skyrim.

1.) You can still pay a trainer to level your skills, with the exact same limitations as Oblivion. That's an entirely separate issue.

Not for smithing, as far as I am aware. There are smithing trainers?

2.) No, it isn't, but it's still the most efficient way to level the skill. Gamers tend to try and be efficient, so this is Bethesda's fault for designing the skill the way that they did. Also, you don't have to craft Dagger Mountain to get smithing to 100, and without much of a challenge in doing so (especially if you've made that skill one of your focuses).

Again I ask: how is it Bethesda's fault you as a player choose to use the most efficient way to level it if that is NOT what you want? I'm sure there's a better way to word that, but essentially I mean: if you wanted a challenge, why wouldn't you roleplay and restrict your character's knowledge of the exploit and create your own challenge? That is always been how the TES series works. It's a true roleplaying game, in which you can choose to selectively use whatever exploits you want and not use others.

What you're asking Bethesda to do is restrict how ALL players want to play in order to ensure you have a challenging experience.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:33 am

Crafting what you need results in a huge excess of materials that end up just sitting around. Where do you think merchants get the stuff they sell? Someone has to craft it and sell it to them so they can resale it. Either that or it is sold directly to them, but the loot sold to them had to be crafted by someone else. Someone is crafting the stuff. Where do you think the Stormcloaks or Imperial Army get their stuff?

Typing this post up for some strange reason makes me want to see a mod that adds radiant crafting quests. Armies need to get their weapons from somewhere, why not the player? Crafting contracts might make crafting seem better integrated into the game.

LIke a sorta crafting mini story kinda thing or just contracts? With my left over stuff, I just put away in my houses, I like to collect things and having extra ores/ingots kinda makes me feel like I'm that much closer to completing a pointless collection, plus you can always sell or save for a rainy day. Having lots of money always looks good xD

But as some someone stated earlier, its not normal to make like 100 daggers in one session. Wouldn't you rather just make one thing and appreciate it, than abuse it and make 100. From my point of view, I like to be grateful for what I have (Mostly in real life, but I don't see why I cannot have this perspective in a video game)

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:24 am

The main "problem" is that the crafting perks aren't gated so you can grind them way too easy.

They should make level requirements on top of the skill requirements.

Example with the heavy armor smithing branch:

Dwarven Smithing req. 30 smithing and level 10
Orcish Smithing req. 50 smithing and level 20
Ebony Smithing req. 80 smithing and level 30
Daedric Smithing req. 90 smithing and level 40
Dragon Armor req. 100 smithing and level 50

It's obviously just an example but I think people get the drift.

The thing is, if you're truly role playing, it ISN'T a problem at all because you aren't going to grind squat.

That said, your level requirement sounds reasonable.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:51 am

The thing is, if you're truly role playing, it ISN'T a problem at all because you aren't going to grind squat.

That said, your level requirement sounds reasonable.

My point exactly. I Think lol

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:20 pm

If you look at it that way they are similar yes. However I have a much easier time cheesing the AI into a corny death on Skyrim. I dont see my style of combat as exploiting. Im not going to stand and take hits. Thats just common sense. This is something that needs some improvement wouldn't you say? 10 years from now I would like to say AI has improved. Skyrim is about equal to 10 years ago. While skill and character progression may stay the same, that's ok. AI needs to improve and move on. They can stand for some better options in combat no?

Skyrim's AI feels subpar. Compared to 10 years ago, Half-Life had better AI. Exploiting pathing and swinging is a problem. I jump on a rock or off a dock and back and can cheese any encounter. I killed a Giant at level 2 this way...

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:50 am

But as some someone stated earlier, its not normal to make like 100 daggers in one session. Wouldn't you rather just make one thing and appreciate it, than abuse it and make 100. From my point of view, I like to be grateful for what I have (Mostly in real life, but I don't see why I cannot have this perspective in a video game)

How would you "appreciate" an item that you craft for sole purpose of leveling the crafting in this game (please don't say "make only what you use" because in order to level you have to make something that you won't use)? Could you elaborate on that more?

The thing is, if you're truly role playing, it ISN'T a problem at all because you aren't going to grind squat.

You can roleplay a smith pretty easily where you end up making lot of items.

And if we go by your train of thought, then crafting is broken for opposite reason; now it's useless because you can't level it past 30.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:59 pm

Sorry, my fault for wording that incorrectly. You're right- we should expect progression from game to game. What I meant was, when you started to see there were similar concerns for you, how did you not balance that out the same way you did in previous titles? I'm assuming you enjoy the TES series and got something out of them to return again for Skyrim.

In previous TES titles, I had to actually go out of my way to power game. In this game, all I have to do is take the wrong skills.

Not for smithing, as far as I am aware. There are smithing trainers?

There are as many smithing trainers as there are trainers for any other skill. There's more for smithing than there are for some, actually.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Smithing#Trainers

Again I ask: how is it Bethesda's fault you as a player choose to use the most efficient way to level it if that is NOT what you want?

You're wrong. I want to make effiecient use of my free time, and thus make efficient use of my game time by leveling efficiently. However, the manner in which you do so is just dumb.

I'm sure there's a better way to word that, but essentially I mean: if you wanted a challenge, why wouldn't you roleplay and restrict your character's knowledge of the exploit and create your own challenge? That is always been how the TES series works. It's a true roleplaying game, in which you can choose to selectively use whatever exploits you want and not use others.

Restricting yourself to a certain skillset, or leveling a certain skillset inefficiently on purpose is very different than deciding not to give your character 100% chameleon (an effect that was mercifully taken out of this series, along with Reflect Damage as a magical effect that also serves as a DR %).

What you're asking Bethesda to do is restrict how ALL players want to play in order to ensure you have a challenging experience.

I fail to see how asking Bethesda to improve the AI and/or difficulty scaling is the same as asking Bethesda to restrict players.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:18 am

LIke a sorta crafting mini story kinda thing or just contracts? With my left over stuff, I just put away in my houses, I like to collect things and having extra ores/ingots kinda makes me feel like I'm that much closer to completing a pointless collection, plus you can always sell or save for a rainy day. Having lots of money always looks good xD

But as some someone stated earlier, its not normal to make like 100 daggers in one session. Wouldn't you rather just make one thing and appreciate it, than abuse it and make 100. From my point of view, I like to be grateful for what I have (Mostly in real life, but I don't see why I cannot have this perspective in a video game)

If you're crafting what you need and have extra materials...sell them. That's what people would normally do. Or, they would make extra stuff and sell that too- but they would do it realistically. They wouldn't make 50 daggers worth 1 gold a piece, that's a waste of materials. They'd make the most expensive thing they could make, which would use up their materials fast and ensure they weren't powerlevelling.

This is what I do. Over 100 hours in and my smithing hasn't gone above 50. And I mine everything I come across, it's not like I'm avoiding crafting. I make a couple things in a few hour session and then I'm done. I make 60 gold or so, move on with my adventuring.

It is unfortunate for those who concentrate on smithing as an RP if they're not doing it rationally- again, from a business standpoint, why would you RP being a smith who stands around making cheap iron daggers? You'd conceivably make the most expensive, elaborate item you could, right? So even then, you'd be spending hours traversing the world collecting ore and skin, travelling back to your smithy, making one or two items...conceivably should still take quite a chunk of time in game.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:54 am

Skyrim's AI feels subpar. Compared to 10 years ago, Half-Life had better AI. Exploiting pathing and swinging is a problem. I jump on a rock or off a dock and back and can cheese any encounter. I killed a Giant at level 2 this way...

I ment in TES but that's really no different. Better AI exists and it can be applied here. You can cheese giants with melee combat at lv 1 because their attacks are so slow. It's just no good.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:05 am

How would you "appreciate" an item that you craft for sole purpose of leveling the crafting in this game (please don't say "make only what you use" because in order to level you have to make something that you won't use)? Could you elaborate on that more?

I play for roleplaying purposes, so when I am actually crafting, I'm crafting for something I need, not to level up. I dont really take notice to my leveling at all. I guess from my point of view, the "sole point" of crafting isn't to level it up, its to craft things. My leveling comes from getting any items I want to sell and upgrading them at workbench and grindstone and then selling. It does level up, but a lot slower than it would if I were to mass up on daggers. Does that make sense? If i'm sounding nooby, just say , I just wanted to put my input in and feel special xD

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:56 pm

If you're crafting what you need and have extra materials...sell them. That's what people would normally do. Or, they would make extra stuff and sell that too- but they would do it realistically. They wouldn't make 50 daggers worth 1 gold a piece, that's a waste of materials. They'd make the most expensive thing they could make, which would use up their materials fast and ensure they weren't powerlevelling.

This is what I do. Over 100 hours in and my smithing hasn't gone above 50. And I mine everything I come across, it's not like I'm avoiding crafting. I make a couple things in a few hour session and then I'm done. I make 60 gold or so, move on with my adventuring.

It is unfortunate for those who concentrate on smithing as an RP if they're not doing it rationally- again, from a business standpoint, why would you RP being a smith who stands around making cheap iron daggers? You'd conceivably make the most expensive, elaborate item you could, right? So even then, you'd be spending hours traversing the world collecting ore and skin, travelling back to your smithy, making one or two items...conceivably should still take quite a chunk of time in game.

You have access to transmute spell very early in the game, and once you have that you can begin to craft gold rings for profit, which falls in line completely with the idea of crafting for profit. Also iron dagger with enchant is sadly one of the most profitable item to sell

And it's not just about market profit. It's feasible to roleplay a character who wish to improve his/her talent

I play for roleplaying purposes, so when I am actually crafting, I'm crafting for something I need, not to level up. I dont really take notice to my leveling at all. I guess from my point of view, the "sole point" of crafting isn't to level it up, its to craft things. My leveling comes from getting any items I want to sell and upgrading them at workbench and grindstone and then selling. It does level up, but a lot slower than it would if I were to mass up on daggers. Does that make sense? If i'm sounding nooby, just say , I just wanted to put my input in and feel special xD

What you are doing is essnetially gimping yourself. Yes, you can call it roleplay, then I'll just call it as roleplaying someone who wants to stay weak because it takes a very narrow roleplay style to stay weak

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:38 pm

This thread is growing as tiresome as smithing 400 daggers. If the game was too easy for you, then I'm sorry. Plenty of games have disappointed me. What I find offensive is that people would comment on the developers motivations. They made the game they thought would be best and people would enjoy that was reasonable to produce. Perhaps they could release a game only about being a blacksmith for those that enjoy doing that. It sad when people continuously complain about how a game should be. and engage in endless "discussions" about improvements or mods and what should have been, rater than taking the time to enjoy what it is. When you designed and develop the game, then you can decide those things. End rant.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:09 am

In previous TES titles, I had to actually go out of my way to power game. In this game, all I have to do is take the wrong skills.

There are as many smithing trainers as there are trainers for any other skill. There's more for smithing than there are for some, actually.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Smithing#Trainers

Wow, I never noticed. Probably because I don't use trainers, I just glossed right over them

You're wrong. I want to make effiecient use of my free time, and thus make efficient use of my game time by leveling efficiently. However, the manner in which you do so is just dumb.

I think I'm starting to see where our opinions diverge- see, this constant use of 'efficient' in your game language to me, seems to be dead against what TES games are about- taking your time, immersing yourself, etc. Doing everything as 'efficiently' as possible doesn't seem like an enjoyable way to play an RPG that's built around getting lost and exploring every nook and cranny. But to each their own.

Restricting yourself to a certain skillset, or leveling a certain skillset inefficiently on purpose is very different than deciding not to give your character 100% chameleon (an effect that was mercifully taken out of this series, along with Reflect Damage as a magical effect that also serves as a DR %).

*points above* Same response- your playstyle, I think, just isn't conducive to the intent and spirit behind the idea of the TES series. I'm not trying to say that your playstyle is wrong, just different, and it's hard for me to look at the games the same way you do.

I fail to see how asking Bethesda to improve the AI and/or difficulty scaling is the same as asking Bethesda to restrict players.

In my opinion, they DID improve the AI quite a bit in this game. And master difficulty, for me, is practically impossible from level 1. But these are just my opinions. I think it goes back to playstyle. We each approach the game differently, and thus have a different experience. I'm sorry yours isn't better.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:20 am

This thread is growing as tiresome as smithing 400 daggers. If the game was too easy for you, then I'm sorry. Plenty of games have disappointed me. What I find offensive is that people would comment on the developers motivations. They made the game they thought would be best and people would enjoy that was reasonable to produce.

Because how dare we question the developer's decisions?!

Perhaps they could release a game only about being a blacksmith for those that enjoy doing that.

Yeah, that sounds super fun. Apparently I am "doing it wrong," just because I was excited by the prospect of being able to smith your own items

It sad when people continuously complain about how a game should be. and engage in endless "discussions" about improvements or mods and what should have been, rater than taking the time to enjoy what it is. When you designed and develop the game, then you can decide those things. End rant.

The developers are designing the game for us, the players. It's sad when someone thinks that you have to be a developer to question and criticize development decisions in a game. End rant.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:56 am

You have access to transmute spell very early in the game, and once you have that you can begin to craft gold rings for profit, which falls in line completely with the idea of crafting for profit. Also iron dagger with enchant is sadly one of the most profitable item to sell

And it's not just about market profit. It's feasible to roleplay a character who wish to improve his/her talent

What you are doing is essnetially gimping yourself. Yes, you can call it roleplay, then I'll just call it as roleplaying someone who wants to stay weak because it takes a very narrow roleplay style to stay weak

Well...in order to use the transmute spell, you have to have an adept level at alteration, yes? Not every CHARACTER would know that or would want that. Again, we are falling victim to player knowledge, not character knowledge.

Your second point- of course a character would want to increase their talent. But rationally, the CHARACTER would expect to do that by crafting more complex items. As people have pointed out here several times already, how does crafting 300 iron daggers make you a master smith? Your character wouldn't know that. You do.

As far as playstyle goes, again, it goes back to how TES games have always been- the playstyle is incredibly open, so that people CAN powerlevel if they choose to. If you don't want to, you need to roleplay. It's not as difficult as people like to believe. And I appreciate a game that treats me like an advlt instead of smacking my hand and telling me I can't have cookies for breakfast if I want to

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:07 am

LIke a sorta crafting mini story kinda thing or just contracts?

Either or. I've seen these threads floating around about running your own Hold, so if something like that were to be designed, perhaps some quests to outfit your guardsmen by crafting a certain number of iron swords and shields, a certain number of sets of leather armor. Then quests further down the line once you've got some other stuff setup to upgrade your guards into perhaps steel uniforms, so steel swords, steel shields, steel armor, whatever.

I think that would be pretty interesting. For higher level stuff, just generic crafting contracts. Supply X items, receive Y gold.

As people have pointed out here several times already, how does crafting 300 iron daggers make you a master smith?

How do people know if you do a high number of reps while working out, that makes you stronger? Because they've done it and gotten stronger. When I was leveling crafting on my character, I knew about as much about how to become a better crafter as my character did. Only once he and I realized that he was improving his craft just as much crafting iron daggers did the iron dagger crafting commence.

When people were learning how to best work out, they were trying all sorts of crazy things. Eventually, they found a good routine. It doesn't always involve just doing one rep of the highest weight you can possibly do. Sometimes while you're cycling you will max, but you don't do it all the time. Sadly, I doubt Beth would ever implement a complex system that would simulate realistically learning a craft.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:39 pm

In real life it takes aptitude and a lot of time (perhaps a lifetime) to master a craft or develop a skill. So if you aren't smart enough (INT), strong enough (STR), coordinated (DEX) enough or practice enough (time) you can't really progress. By doing away with those statistics on our characters, they removed what were more realistic ways of limiting the development of skills. In more realistic setting you couldn't level enchanting and fighting because you wouldn't have the time, or likely the aptitude for both. At some point you might be too old to be a warrior (or you might take an arrow to the knee).

It they made things "realistic" nobody would play the game because it would take years (in game) to level a skill and nobody would be above level 2 after 200+ hours of game play.

They made this game so that you can do everything, because they didn't want to limit what you could do. They simplified and streamlined character stats and mechanics. Because of this it is possible to "power level" certain skills up to make yourself invincible (for the most part) in a way that is not realistic.

In my personal opinion, it would have been better to keep the basic D&D stats (STR, INT, WIS, DEX, AGI, CHA) but keep them hidden. These stats would go up as you used certain skills. At some point the game would let you know if you are able to progress by making new skills available. This would keep people from obsessing over numbers and perhaps make things a bit more natural.

As far as the current game mechanics go, doing what was suggested earlier would probably be the easiest (the amount of skill ups would vary with your level vs. the assigned level of the item). At some point you wouldn't get skill ups from iron daggers, so problem solved.

I am sure that someone will mod this, we have a lot of really talented modders playing the game.

Cheers,

Argenthart

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:09 pm

I think I'm starting to see where our opinions diverge- see, this constant use of 'efficient' in your game language to me, seems to be dead against what TES games are about- taking your time, immersing yourself, etc. Doing everything as 'efficiently' as possible doesn't seem like an enjoyable way to play an RPG that's built around getting lost and exploring every nook and cranny. But to each their own.

You forget that I did not level in the most efficient way possible. In fact, I said it was dumb. However, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to level a skill efficiently and not find it enjoyable. Hell, leveling blacksmithing was super enjoyable for me. The end result, however, was not.

*points above* Same response- your playstyle, I think, just isn't conducive to the intent and spirit behind the idea of the TES series. I'm not trying to say that your playstyle is wrong, just different, and it's hard for me to look at the games the same way you do.

No, no, that's a load of garbage. I love the Elder Scrolls series. I also want Bethesda to fix what's been wrong with it for ten freeking years. I want the skills in this game to be fun, not a chore. I want the skills to be balanced, without me having to change my playstyle in what Bethesda has repeatedly called an "open world, sandbox game."

In my opinion, they DID improve the AI quite a bit in this game. And master difficulty, for me, is practically impossible from level 1. But these are just my opinions. I think it goes back to playstyle. We each approach the game differently, and thus have a different experience. I'm sorry yours isn't better.[/color]

If they improved the AI, then they did so without addressing any of its major faults. And don't get me wrong, Master is hard at low levels. The entire problem is that after that, your character's progression completely ruins any challenge that the game provides. I mean, I understand wanting to make character progression percievable to the player; it was one of Oblivion's biggest problems. But this is just too much.

EDIT: Think of it this way. The primary difference between every difficulty is damage and health scaling. If Bethesda had actually addressed the AI issues in their games, then this wouldn't be necessary, or at least not as the crutch that it seems to be now.