Almost afraid to Buy into the Skyrim Hype

Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:58 am

Don't Morrowind fanatics use the same disingenuous wordings? They'll say "Morrowind has more skills", but they won't say that several of those were severely broken or unbalanced. They'll say that "Dunmer had better voices", but they won't say that they only had a handful of lines. They'll say "Morrowind is more immersive", but they won't say that all NPC's are clones frozen in doorways. And on and on.


I'm sure that many do.But it's really in spite of these things Morrowind is a great game.People might stand around but the world is still more immersible than Oblivion's.Because it had a whole culture made for the game.Plus they didn't open up a box of generic fantasy monsters to put in Morrowind like they did oblivion.I could go on and on talking about Morrowind but I'm sure noone wants to listen.
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Rich O'Brien
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:45 pm

I don't think the choice of words changes the context, people have there own reasons for hating/liking and pointing out whether or not they are being melodramatic doesn't alter their view points on the game, we're no one to say they can't hate one thing, and enjoy another :shrug:

Obviously the choice of words do change the context. How could it be otherwise on a text based internet forum?

People are often contradictory and complicated beings, and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, not all opinions are equally valid or logical. As such, they should not expect any kind of validation if they cannot discount the bias from their opinion.
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Cat
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:33 pm

I am kind of scared to buy into all the hype surrounding the new TES game. Especially after Oblivion IMO was a mess. Too conformed and dumbed down in many ways. To me FO3 was a little better and NEW VEGAS wasn't that great. So now I am a bit leary about SKYRIM. Is there any real changes to this game that will make it better then TES4? and will it be a better story and gameplay? Anything else that can relieve my fears???

So, then don't pre-order it. Everything we've heard so far is Bethesda saying "LOOK AT THIS AWESOME NEW FEATURE" and people either agreeing or disagreeing with it. It's all opinion fronted by Bethesda's (obviously biased) hype.
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Khamaji Taylor
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:36 am


[@ mods, if you remove a post we deserve the courtesy of an explanation. You are here for the benefit of this community, of which I am also a part. Thank you]



think hard about the post of yours that got deleted. it'll be clear why its gone.


I guess all that can be said about this topic while staying on topic has been said really.


Do or don't, won't make the game come any faster :P
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Chris Guerin
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:07 pm

Am I seriously the only person who really enjoys both Oblivion and Morrowind? I'm going to get Skyrim and play it without bias. It's strange that a lot of people seem to know what they think of Skyrim already.
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Dalia
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:40 am

I'm sure that many do.But it's really in spite of these things Morrowind is a great game.People might stand around but the world is still more immersible than Oblivion's.Because it had a whole culture made for the game.Plus they didn't open up a box of generic fantasy monsters to put in Morrowind like they did oblivion.I could go on and on talking about Morrowind but I'm sure noone wants to listen.

By original culture you mean ancient japanese?
I appreciate depth and detail over originality. I like a cliche done in a new, more detailed way more than an entirely new idea.

That said Oblivion wasn't really that deep either, but they could've made the world more interesting without making Cyrodill into a jungle filled with flying fire-breathing dragons.
My biggest proof are the mods. Unique Landscape, Better Cities and even MMM makes the game more unique without making it into an alien landscape.
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John Moore
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:09 pm

Oblivion wasn't really dumbed down, there was just features in there that they didn't implement very well. For example, level scaling.
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Latisha Fry
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:30 am

I won't pretend that Morrowind was a perfect game, but what exactly were all these changes in Oblivion that made it so much better?

Even ignoring the fact that attributes, spells and skills were massively scaled back to make them easier to grasp, Oblivion removed too much freedom. The daily routine system gave some life to NPC's, but the compass would point you in the direction you needed to be going 100% of the time, so there was never any quests which involved learning the routine of an NPC or having to track them down on your own - the game would constantly show you where to go and what to do. Enemies scaled to your level, taking the danger away from exploring new areas and the reward of feeling more powerful. By the end of Morrowind you were literally powerful enough to kill Gods.. in Oblivion, even the bandits wore max armour. Random loot makes exploring caves pointless, because there are now rare or powerful artefacts to randomly find, like you could in Morrowind, this meant there's no reason to explore in caves or ruins.. because there's nothing in them. In Morrowind, fast travel could only be used realistically i.e. via boats or silt striders in towns and cities, this meant you had to explore new areas to progress - in Oblivion, you could constantly rely on teleporting to any location you've previously been, massively discouraging player exploration.. for any reason might have been left.

I didn't hate Oblivion, but it was a very disappointing game. I'm hoping that Skyrim learns from these mistakes and can go back to feeling like more of a role playing/adventure game.. rather than an on rails action one.


Yes, the compass, leveling and fast travel are all valid points, but also something that was fixed by mods, and modability is a very important factor in favour of Oblivion. Why would I play vanilla when the modded game is ten times better? On the same note, why won't Morrowind purists give Oblivion mods a chance? The answer seems to be that they don't want to like Oblivion. Some of the points you make does not seem to be entirely honest. Yes, the compass svcks, but is it better with NPCs who never, ever move?

Attributes - scaled back how? They are the same, and they do the same things. You should check out Skyrim.
Spells - there were too damn many identical or nearly identical ones they merely cluttered up the screen, but that's a matter of preference.
Skills - yes, there are fewer in Oblivion, but more balanced IMO. Speechcraft, enchant, alchemy, medium armor, armorer, mercantile and block were unbalanced if not downright broken in Morrowind.

"Even the bandits wore max armour" - glass armour bandits are no match for a high level character, although they are certainly ridiculous. Morrowind, however, is not much better, with every Dremora lord dropping Daedric weapons worth 30000 gold.
Random loot - most items are useless, with enchantments that are either underwhelming or with combinations that make no sense, and are cumbersome to cast to boot. Also, you can get the Black hands dagger early in the game, after which you won't need another unique weapon. You can also get Indoril and Dark Brotherhood armour early on, making pretty much all other light and medium armour pointless until glass.
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Kelly Upshall
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:32 pm

Am I seriously the only person who really enjoys both Oblivion and Morrowind? I'm going to get Skyrim and play it without bias. It's strange that a lot of people seem to know what they think of Skyrim already.


I'm so glad you posted that! That's how I want to feel about those two because that's how I feel about the Fallout games. I just went through the FO3 v FNV debates in the other forum and I love them both so I guess to some, it's just a sport to pit one game against another and pick sides. :D Thanks!

:tes:
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Tom
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:51 pm

Am I seriously the only person who really enjoys both Oblivion and Morrowind?


Nope, I do too, but I'm not sure if the Morrowind purists allow me to. :)
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Samantha Wood
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:01 pm

think hard about the post of yours that got deleted. it'll be clear why its gone.

What a perfect excuse for you to completely ignore the rest of my post.

(My deleted post consisted entirely of this: "the truth hurts" - not really that clear is it...)
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Lou
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:55 am

What a perfect excuse for you to completely ignore the rest of my post.

(My deleted post consisted entirely of this: "the truth hurts" - not really that clear is it...)



I didn't ignore your post, i just didnt have anything to say about it :P you were making a statement lol what do you want me to say? and your deleted post started off with insulting someone based on preference, I don't think anything else it that post held merit :P if your post held some form of informational value, would have just crossed out the insulting part :P
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Sammi Jones
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:08 pm

Oblivion wasn't really dumbed down, there was just features in there that they didn't implement very well. For example, level scaling.

Well said
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Tracy Byworth
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:53 pm

I have to agree with the general sentiment here. If you've had such a problem with Bethesda games starting with Oblivion, then maybe Bethesda RPGs aren't for you anymore. Im actually playing through Morrowind at the moment, and love it, but I don't think Oblivion was a disappointment. I have had a blast with Oblivion. If you think Oblivion and Fallout were a mess, it seems that your ideal RPGs have already been released. The direction of RPGs today, I don't believe, will ever be able to please you the way games like Morrowind did. I know Im going to love Skyrim, I truly hope it stands up to your expectations too.
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BlackaneseB
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:44 pm

I didn't ignore your post, i just didnt have anything to say about it :P and your deleted post started off with insulting someone based on preference, I don't think anything else it that post held merit :P if your post held some form of informational value, would have just crossed out the insulting part :P

Nope. My deleted post was a quote of yours followed by 'the truth hurts'. Nothing else.

If you don't have anything to say about my response then I take it I have adequately resolved your question. :)
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Spencey!
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:54 pm

Nope. My deleted post was a quote of yours followed by 'the truth hurts'. Nothing else.

If you don't have anything to say about my response then I take it I have adequately resolved your question. :)



lol whatever you say.

and no you haven't you went on to say people are complicated and self defeating....but still stand by the notion that because one hates one thing one can't like something that is of a different time/tech/concept....so :shrug: and of course everyone has bias.....but it doesnt immediately make them wrong or right, your akin to saying those who dislike/hate oblivion are irrational as if there is no good reasoning behind their view points, everyone has Valid points in there rational like I say again, we are no one to tell them what they can and cannot like and for what reasons.
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Dan Wright
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:58 am

As for hypes, I think I can bring a good example.

You know the series called Civilization by Sid Meiers? It had 4 games. Civilization V was coming out. Almost everyone was hyped about it, thought it would be the best game ever. Sure, some people were concerned about it being dumbed down but there wasn`t so much worry about how good the game would be. Besides, the teaser content shown looked amazing.

The game came out and soon all hell broke loose. It was worse beyond a geek`s wildest fears.
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Flesh Tunnel
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:28 pm

and no you haven't you went on to say people are complicated and self defeating....but still stand by the notion that because one hates one thing one can't like something that is of a different time/tech/concept....so :shrug: and of course everyone has bias.....but it doesnt immediately make them wrong or right, your akin to saying those who dislike/hate oblivion are irrational as if there is no good reasoning behind their view points, everyone has Valid points in there rational like I say again, we are no one to tell them what they can and cannot like and for what reasons.

Ok, so it turns out you do have something to say about the other part of my post then.
I'll just refresh your memory:
I don't think the choice of words changes the context, people have there own reasons for hating/liking and pointing out whether or not they are being melodramatic doesn't alter their view points on the game, we're no one to say they can't hate one thing, and enjoy another :shrug:

Obviously the choice of words do change the context. How could it be otherwise on a text based internet forum?

People are often contradictory and complicated beings, and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, not all opinions are equally valid or logical. As such, they should not expect any kind of validation if they cannot discount the bias from their opinion.

I have already said that it is to be expected that we'll all have our preferences, but the delivery of an opinion (melodrama, bias, ect) does effect it's validity.

What we really seem to be disagreeing about is that the concept (your words) of Oblivion is different to that of Morrowind or Skyrim. I believe the overall concept is not different between the games, and therefore anyone who suggests they hate one and love another must be in error. You seem to believe that the basic concept changes between the titles.
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Ludivine Poussineau
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:40 pm

Im always surprised by how long and dragged out peoples arguments get to be on these type of topics. Nothing of any real worth was really said that wasnt already said at least five times withing the first two pages. [/topic covered]
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NAkeshIa BENNETT
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:26 pm

Im always surprised by how long and dragged out peoples arguments get to be on these type of topics. Nothing of any real worth was really said that wasnt already said at least five times withing the first two pages. [/topic covered]

Yes, but what happens when someone disagrees with one of those five-time wise things that was said on the first 2 pages?
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Bambi
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:21 pm

Skyrim is going to be more Oblivion and Fallout than Morrowind or Daggerfall.

I bought into the hype a long time ago. The information however shook me out of it...
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LijLuva
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:38 pm

Ok, so it turns out you do have something to say about the other part of my post then.
I'll just refresh your memory:

I have already said that it is to be expected that we'll all have our preferences, but the delivery of an opinion (melodrama, bias, ect) does effect it's validity.

What we really seem to be disagreeing about is that the concept (your words) of Oblivion is different to that of Morrowind or Skyrim. I believe the overall concept is not different between the games, and therefore anyone who suggests they hate one and love another must be in error. You seem to believe that the basic concept changes between the titles.




:facepalm: who....cares...like really Why are you hung up on subjective statements made by people? yes the concepts are the same, thats what I say, each game is preceeded by TES, but that is not the way people think about the games, there are divides in the excecution of each game, one can love the excecution in oblivion and hate it in Morrowind, why do I need to even elaborate on that sure some people are over the top in their statements towards a game, but generally the validity of their claims are not unfounded I don't think anyone -like you said- honestly believes/feels one can hate a game, and that is what you said and I agree but the context does not change love/hate like/dislike are still positives and negetives, I don't see you trampling down someone who says they Love Oblivion/Morrowind/Skyrim and who cares if they do, thats personal. Im saying whatever terminology/resoning they use for liking/dislikeing etc etc a game do not come out of the blue......now can we stop, the last time I tried to elaborate something to this extent I was refered to the PM, and the ass tried to troll for four pages :lmao: he has a nice warning under his belt now.


You said if you hated Oblivion, you won't like Skyrim....that statement makes no sense......as i said in response there are people who will say Skyrim is not Oblivion 2.0 or Morrowind 2.0...Skyrim will be Skyrim, and the next time someone says that, I hope you respond to them.
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Lyd
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:51 am

You said if you hated Oblivion, you won't like Skyrim....that statement makes no sense......as i said in response there are people who will say Skyrim is not Oblivion 2.0 or Morrowind 2.0...Skyrim will be Skyrim, and the next time someone says that, I hope you respond to them.

I shouldn't really have to explain what I meant by that at this stage in the discussion (i.e the end. lol).

I do not believe anyone on these forums can really hate Oblivion. So that should give you a clue to the meaning behind my very first post in this topic.

It was admittedly dismissive of the OP's concerns, but it bothers me not if he buys into the hype of Skyrim. If I had known you would need so much clarification on these words I would have phrased them more carefully, but here we are a couple of pages later...

The statement makes perfect sense if you believe (as I do) that the basic concept of the games do not change. Skyrim will be an open world, action-adventure RPG. That is what Oblivion was. That is also what Morrowind was.
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Nice one
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:53 am

..........I've virtually repeated the same thing since page 2 meh :shrug: if you think I was confused then and now see what you mean...then..lol don't know what to say :shrug:


anyway...as I stated probably last page, anything that could be said about this relevant to the Op has been said. threads done to be honest.
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Je suis
 
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Post » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:18 am

You said if you hated Oblivion, you won't like Skyrim....that statement makes no sense......as i said in response there are people who will say Skyrim is not Oblivion 2.0 or Morrowind 2.0...

Morrowind and Oblivion are different in many ways, but the underlying essential qualities of the world are cut from the same cloth.

These are both games that give you the opportunity to "be who you want, do what you want" in the context of a huge game world, rich with lore, interesting characters and a myriad of side quests. Other than these two games, I'm not aware of any open-world single player RPGs that deliver enjoyable playthroughs lasting hundreds or even thousands of hours for many players.

11.11.11 will be a very sad day if it turns out that Skyrim is not cut from this same cloth.

That is extremely unlikely, however, and if the OP truly hated Oblivion, then he is probably not going to enjoy Skyrim.


The daily routine system gave some life to NPC's, but the compass would point you in the direction you needed to be going 100% of the time, so there was never any quests which involved learning the routine of an NPC or having to track them down on your own - the game would constantly show you where to go and what to do. Enemies scaled to your level, taking the danger away from exploring new areas and the reward of feeling more powerful.


Apparently you have never completed one of my favorite Oblivion quests, "Paranoia." Also, I usually play Oblivion without the quest marker selected and without using fast travel. As I go through the process of gradually discovering all of the locations on the map, I eventually find most of the locations for the dozens and dozens of open quests I have accumulated.



in Oblivion, even the bandits wore max armour. Random loot makes exploring caves pointless, because there are now not a great deal of rare or powerful artefacts to randomly find, like you could in Morrowind, this meant there's no reason to explore in caves or ruins.. because there's nothing in them.
Yes, we are all very familiar with these shortcomings. thankfully there are some excellent overhaul mods that correct this lack of balance in Oblivion

In Morrowind, fast travel could only be used realistically i.e. via boats or silt striders in towns and cities, this meant you had to explore new areas to progress
mods
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sarah
 
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