Except they only won the in the end precisely because of the technology that the rest of the Brotherhood felt was far more important than protecting wastelanders. Guess they were right.

More accurately, they won because not only did they have superior technology, but also the will to use it for a good cause. As opposed to having it and just sitting on it until it chafes a nasty rash on your [censored], like the rest of the BoS.

Well not even that, I would say that the three Vertibirds that come in from behind Prime at 1:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvpMB8LkRI0&feature=related would probably have layed waste to his exposde cables with missiles and won the battle in seconds; of course they just fly past except for one which decides to stop right in front of him instead... that is why the Enclave lost people, because they were written too.

Oh yeah I agree wholeheartedly Prime is just a goofy concept but it's just funny that Lyon's alliance with the wastelanders doesn't seem to help at all in the fight against the Enclave while acquisition of technology wins the day.

It wasn't a military alliance, with any expectation of a 'wasteland army' joining into the fight. It wasn't even an alliance, really. Just you, the wasteland hero, joining their efforts. The wastelanders of DC are mostly just under their protection, more than they are any kind of effective or organized fighting force.

Except without Lyon's good intentions Project Purity never would've existed in the first place and since for some reason the Enclave in Fallout 3 seem reliant on using it to distribute the Curling FEV into the D.C. area without Project Purity an actual BOS chapter could never have been threatened by the Enclave short of a direct attack against them which Liberty Prime would've ended handily in their favor.

So again Lyon's decision to protect wastelanders got him nowhere and in fact put the whole region at risk while acquiring technology allowed the BOS to survive and become the dominant force in the Capital Wasteland.

But only because you, a heroic wastelander, make it happen with your own personal weapons. Otherwise, the Enclave would've kicked their butts! :biggrin:

Chalk another one up for the wastelanders!

Right and putting the wastelanders of D.C. under his protection helped the Brotherhood in no way and inadvertently imperiled the entire region by giving the Enclave a means to distribute the virus.

Meanwhile acquisition of technology enabled the Brotherhood to defeat the Enclave and ensured their power. Again it's pretty obvious which part of the Brotherhood was right.

I'm having a real hard time connecting the dots between your logic, here. If the hardline BoS is 'right' and they should only collect and hoard tech and never help outsiders/wastelanders... then by your logic, they should have not gotten involved in helping in any way in DC, which would have kept the status quo there. In other words, instead of goodness and compassion winning out, fascism being defeated, and humanity in the area thriving with clean water and food and hope for a better world future, the BoS would have just continued to selfishly pick thru the ruins for more tech to sit on for themselves, while the mutants and Enclave mercs preyed on and finished off what little was left of the local wastelanders. Oh yeah, big 'win', that. Not. If 'ensuring their power' at the expense of all of the rest of humanity is their sole goal, then they are truly no better than the Enclave, and are no friend of humanity and deserve to be destroyed.

Their original intent was supposed to be to help *all* of humanity, despite their stupidly flawed and misguided methods of attempting to achieve that goal. Lyon's succeeded only because he rejected the fossilized BoS party line, *using* their tech for the cause of good- and that's why the good guys won the day in DC. Sitting on their technology and 'not getting involved' in the plight of the DC wastelanders, would have just ensured the extermination and enslavement of those people. Lyons wisely decided to part ways with official policy, in order to preserve his humanity, and save those under his protection. And unlike the constipated elders of the rest of the BoS, his group actually has a thriving future ahead of it, growing and prospering and evolving. Something none of the other inbred BoS clans are at all capable of. Now that, is 'win'.

The original BoS had a reason for being. Who knows how many wannabe war lords they stopped by taking away the really good toys from them. Only problem is over 200 years other Factions still managed to get their hands on some advanced tech like NCR and Gun Runners. NCR is now the Largest Super Power in the known wasteland. The BoS are stuck in the past because they don't seem to have a good leadership. No one willing to change the Codex that has the power to do so.

Now don't go bashing all the BoS. After the Events of Fallout a large number of BoS that wanted change were sent East on a mission that many knew would end in disaster. It did and those survivors founded a new BoS orginization know by fans as "The Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY&playnext=1&list=PLD4B82E5EB2BF05CD

Acquisition of technology and eliminating the Super Mutant threat as the Western BOS elders wanted Lyons to do would've indirectly helped D.C. inhabitant's a lot more than Lyons' shortsighted decision to protect them at the expense of his other objectives. Twenty years of protecting humanity has brought Lyon no closer to locating the source of the super mutants, has managed to barely preserve the status quo of D.C. as a mutant-ridden hellhole (as opposed to a mutant overrun hellhole), has ensured the steady decline of the Brotherhood in the region, and handed the Enclave the means to exterminate the whole of D.C.'s population on a silver platter. Meanwhile twenty years of zealous focus on technology enables the Brotherhood to activate an immensely powerful asset that is the key to their survival and potentially the security of the whole region.

Again, all evidence in the game indicates that the Western Brotherhood was absolutely right about where Lyons' priorities should've been. At no point did the Western elders categorically object to helping the inhabitants of D.C. they simply objected to this being done at the expense of his primary mission, pursuit of which is what ended up saving the D.C. Brotherhood's asses.



But Lyons didn't succeed because he helped people. That had no impact whatsoever on the outcome of the fight against the Enclave. In fact Lyons' helping people almost guarantees an absolute Enclave victory in the region which would've otherwise been impossible. He succeeded because he got a piece of tech up and running the exact same piece of tech the Western Brotherhood felt was more important than protecting wastelanders. They were right just as when they were right to tell him to focus on locating the source of the Super Mutants instead of getting his men killed on pointless search and destroy sweeps to "protect" ridiculous assets like GNR.

Ah, gotta love these games... they allow each player to create their own RP universes in their minds and give each faction whatever motivations and purposes we choose to bestow upon them. And since they are purely fictional, there is no real 'right or wrong' answer, only the ones we each feel make the most sense. With that, I will let it go, and salute you for a worthy scrap on the subject! :foodndrink:

Untrue. :hubbahubba: