if i'm right, 200 years ALONE has passed between skyrim and oblivion. Yet, from what i can tell theres ABSOLUTELY no technological development. What are they doing, just sitting around? Wheres the advancement? What happened to progress?

Not that it bothers me, i like TES's swordplay, but standing back and looking at the big picture it does seem awkward that theyre in such a stagnate state. Even magic hasnt really developed.

So what gives? Any explanation?

You don't really need technology when you have magic or potions that cures most diseases, or heals you rather quickly.

Technology has developed before the games take place, however. For example, no one saw plate armor before Pelinal.

IMO I would rather TES not go the direction of Fable in any way, shape or form.
Also it doesn't seem to be TES style. But in a recent preview, the journalist stated he saw a rotary sawblade so I suppose it has progressed a little... maybe

It is stagnant. For a reason. Magic solves most problems so progress is very slow. And what progress there is...is through magic most likely. Most Fantasy games, books, and the like are the same. Little to no technological development.

You do have to also remember that the Nords may not be the most technological advance society.

You do forget... it takes a while for a culture to build. Then it thrives or just survives.

What are you specifically looking for? Healing? They have churches. It has taken many many many years to have centralized healthcare. Even US cannot agree best way to go about it

Schooling? In rule areas, schooling was minimal. Especially if they had to work on farms. Most past "education" was to become apprentices with a career set

Guns, Armour, ect? Without the invention of gunpowder.. it all has to wait

Or is this another discussion about toilets lol.

Pretty much this.

I'm sure there may be things like how armor and weapons are made (heating techniques, how metals are smelted, etc), but you don't really need things, like guns for example, when you have an army of people who can fire elements from their hands, paralyze you, etc. I imagine as well that people don't think to invent things that we did in our world, due to magic being a viable option.

Well from our history almost all major technological advances have come through warfare and trying to out do the competition. In Nirn they have magic. So they make increasingly intricate enchantments that use less energy and give more power. That is their progress IMO. And they seem to focus on the past cultures instead of their own(Dwemer & Ayleids). They also have 'gods'(Aedra and Daedra) that on occasion grant them wishes. Those same gods probably want to restrict technological development wherever possible. Just my opinion though.

If you think 200 years of little to not technological development was bad, the entire 2nd era was just as bad. 200 years is a drop in the bucket for the technological stagnation Nirn has.

Also, before anyone says this, it wasn't because of technology that the dwemer went poof, it was because they absorbed themselves into the Numidium and became its golden skin, not divine punishment.

True, but what about things they ARE developing and researching? Like magic. Magic hasnt changed as far as i can remember, even in the slightest. Also, wouldnt they want to progress and discover better way to make swords/armor? Wouldnt they wana find way to make it stronger, lighter, sharper, easier?

I'm not asking for flying cars in TES 6, but some show that an evolving society still exists would be nice...

I find magic the lamest excuse for the lack of technological advancement. Not every person in Tamriel is going to be able to do magic, nor afford the proper training to learn it.

edit: Not only does technology not evolve, but neither does political thought either apparently.

Get a bunch of orsimer smiths and try to get them to create the best armor money can buy, and they should be able to come to a breakthrough. They were able to create one of the best armor around with nothing but scrap metal. With enough materials provided, they could probably create an awesome set of ebony armor, rivaling that of daedric.

But...we also have to remember, necessity is what drives invention. If there is no one seeming much necessity to improve, don't expect much improvement going on.

I don't understand what you are looking for tho.

It took forever to find combustible fuels, steam power, electricity, ect. I think you are asking for wonders or feats. Even frig's needed the discovery of freon.

We do NOT know if there are advances to Commerce, Smiting, or other areas because it wasn't focused on

I am at a loss on what you are looking for.

And to Lord Tidus.. those people are called farmers :thumbsup:

Edit: To Hellmouth post... he is correct. We do NOT know every little nook of detail behind the scenes.

It was the same with medicine for thousands of years.

And not everyone could afford slaves, and slavery still stopped the industrial revolution from happening. It only happened after slavery was banned.

Guns is the only way they could go right now, because the technology is mixed.

Political thought? In ancient times, people would use divine right to rule. In TES, those gods actually exist.

We know the majority of the world lives under some form of monarchy, there are no Republics or democracy's around and the Confederation that made up Elswyre was really more of a Theocracy with the Mane at the head. The idea that magic negates the need for advancement seems impracticable to me. In the vast time of being, very little seems to have developed in the ways of technology or even social/political ideology. True though, we don't know every nook and crany, but we do know quite alot about the world and the cultures of its people.

edit: and how much time has passed between era's? enough that would expect to see some more advancement in thought and structure. But as always that's just my take.

Well you made a point in yourself too 8). If we use our history, a Monarchy style government inhibits technology advancement. The head powers attempt to keep population in check by restriction the arts, creativity, ect...

So therefore, it is not unreasonable that technological advancement became stagnant.

It is hard to determine the degree of advancement due to we do NOT have a civilization model to base this upon. Unless you know about people who used magic and I don't 8)

Edit: (Add) Of course this is generalization. Some good things came from Absolute Monarchy

As I said, there was no plate armor until people saw Pelinal. They pretty much had no idea how to describe it in the Song of Pelinal.

What are they going to advance to aside from guns? Medicine? No need. Anything "new" would just be a more expensive version of something that heals you from drinking it, and something that takes longer to boot. "I just figured out how to do skin grafts! Forget those potions! This makes you look like a walrus, take months if not years to heal, and is expensive as nothing you would believe!" And Industrial Revolution would lead to Fable 3. "I just figured out how to do skin grafts! Forget those potions! This makes you look like a walrus, take months if not years to heal, and is espensive as nothing you would believe!"

I don't mean to strawman you, but that's the only way Tamriel can advance at this point.

I actually do agree that we need some political advancement, now that I think about it. At least something other than kings. Or develop what ever powers they have to keep the population in check.

I agree with you there for sure, my niche was the idea that magic negates the need for advancement. Its been said so many times before and I couldn't disagree more when realistically thinking magic wouldn't be available to every smuck on the corner side and would more than likely be squandered by the elite or government.

In a real life economy the availability of magical potions wouldn't really be logically mainstreamed to the public I don't think. The effort and skill that would go in to making said potions would likely make it a rather expensive approach and would more than likly spur people to find more common and mundane ways that would be more accessible for the general public, that is if we take Tamriel into the context of a real world scenario.

And guess who did all the technological advancement before the Industrial Revolution in real life? The elites. The vast, vast majority of scientific people in ancient and medieval times was either the rich or the religious groups. And the later has access to magic in Tamriel. As does the former. Because in real life, it was not a job unless you were a doctor. Someone else took care of you as you figured out about math.

The Industrial Revolution is the only way you can go. Or aqueducts and different methods of getting water aside from wells. Or guns. If they can't afford magic or potions, how can they afford anything that we have in real life. Potions = medicine. It's just a different method of it.

That's it, really.

Is there a book on Skyrim's government?

Democracy wasn't in thought of until Greek times. Even then, it was poorly utilized or just a theory. It took awhile for us, humans, too.

Tho, this is another world at another time. Just hard to fit to a model.

Speaking of water.... what type of landmass is Skyrim? Can we say it is to Canada in the West or Russia in the east? I assume people would have to derive their water from Mountain streams and rivers right? The ground too solid for wells? svcks for the peasants.. that daily walk

I think you misjudge peoples ambitions and motivations. There's always going to be those who want to innovate and actually improve the world rather than keep it in the dark; Doctors, merchants, academics ect wanting to escape the crush of the nobility and established click.

edit: Skyrims divided up into Hold's and is monarchist.

I would say there are three decent reasons for there being little-to-no tech advancement in the 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim:

1. As has been well covered in this thread so far, the existence of magic in the setting that is wide-spread enough to be put to semi-common use is going to slow down technological advancement. Not stop it because, as has been said, not everyone has access to magic, but slow it down nevertheless.

2. The Empire collapsed in those 200 years; having something *that* all-encompassing fall apart that quickly is likely to cause the loss of at least some knowledge. I'm not going to suggest that it was a full-on Dark Ages or anything, but some damage was probably done.

3. The general pattern with technological advancement seems to be that the rate of advancement increases exponentially as time goes on. If you were to look back through history, 200 years would produce a smaller and smaller technological gap, the further back in history you look. With that in mind, the question becomes: how much technological advancement is appropriate for a 200 year span of time, at this point in Tamriel's history?

Add those together, and a stagnant level of advancement doesn't seem so inappropriate.

Alright, what about other things, such as travel, construction, communication or trade? Those things need not magic, but can use it, however are largely left alone and are extremely inefficient as is. Theyre STILL using horses. If magic has reached its peak and cannot provide adequate transportation to the common man, it would seem only fair that they would want to develop something better.

Alright, fine, magic is the solution right? Then why is it still more or less reserved to those who can do it. Wouldnt it be an abundant trade? I think finding a way a common man can employ consumer use of magic would make a killing. If thats not good enough, think of it like this: Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic. By which standard, magic in this case WOULD be technology, and thus should, but hasnt seen advancement.

Theres been plenty of war thus far, i believe morrowind was taken over right? No advancements were made after all that?


EDIT:

BTW, this hole topic dawned from a discussion i had, where if you look at starwars, thousands of years pass with little-no change. Theyre still using freaking swords!

I myself am more concerned about the lack of advancement throughout Tamriels History and the establishment of the Empire. Like Hellmouth said, the 200 years to Skyrim is a mere drop in the bucket for a stagnated Tamriel.

So people are going to create as type of medicine that's going to:

A) Take longer to heal.
B ) Much more expensive.
C) Hurt for much longer

Just to "rebel"?

Tell me, where are they going to go sans industrial revolution, which would enrage the fanbase (and probably a large amount of Bethesda, too)? That is the only way they can go. Mass produced healing potions, mass produced healing scrolls, ect.

People have done far more just to rebel my friend. That's not the point however. The idea is that magic, in all its requirements would be more costly and take longer to produce than mundane medicine which would be more accesible and afordable to the average joe. I'd see medicine, while indeed taking longer, to be more of a reasonable approach to the average man who doesn't want to pay a fortune to the local healer or Mages Guild. Really, how would it be more expensive than years of study and skill that it would take to learn how to use magick? I'm thinking more in the context of if Tamriel was a real place, and personally I don't care about the fan bases unwillingness to accept logical advancement in a place many of us would like to see as a living breathing place.

Take the Spinning Jenny for instance, it reveloutionalized the cotton industry, and wasn't financed or invented by an uppercrust noble by a long shot. Political ideals the same way and alot of other reveloutionary advancements were first thought up by, and implemented, by commoners seeking a way to perfect their trade, not deep pocketed nobles who never worked in their lives.

edit: By the way, Im not saying they should implement this in the games, but for sake of discussion.