Yeah this is close to a break point for me on whether or not I get the game or at least it might keep me from getting it until a modder does a decent job of well doing Bethesda's job.

You've got me there, usually it is me saying that to someone. karma decided to bite me, the teeth marks still fresh.

I hope they have spells that you can only learn from hidden tomes or remote trainers.

Wow. The spell making thing was the best thing to ever happen to my mage. I discovered it randomly one day and loved it ever since. I really really thought Skyrim was supposed to be Oblivion 3.5, where they would remove useless things such as Acrobatics and Athletics(and merge them together) and improve on the system, not go around removing everything. All I have ever heard is"they axed this" or "they got rid of that".

The closer we get to Skyrim, the less excited I get.

As much as I want to be on the "wait and see" camp about this issue I am concerned about pure mage's getting a more shallow experience in Skyrim than a pure warrior. If getting a deeper mage experience means becoming a battlemage then that is a serious blow to the ES world, IMO.

don't be sad a better mechanic is in place now, charging a spell adds to its damage value which is just like spell making only without making 1000+ useless spells, and putting 2 different spells in ur hands combines the effect (sometimes pretty awesomely)

so why worry

spell making was in OB and MW cause the spell system was limited and [censored] and needed it badly

I must admit I'd really miss this

A battle mage type character has always been my favourite type, and always with an extra emphasis on magic

I used the spell alter all the time in the previous game, and the fact that it was a bit "spread sheety" didn't put me off one bit.

If they want to change the process, fine, but at least give us the option

nope

I remember reading about spell tomes returning. I believe it was in a couple of the Park City, Utah previews. I don't think perks will include spells.

We still know next to nothing about the enchanting skill; for all we know we can enchant scrolls to use as one-off spells. I can only imagine how hard it would be to balance spell creation with dual weilding. 3 effects per spell in two hands? Seems to overpowered to me, and I suspect they needed to find a way to induce limitations to keep it from being abused. Removing spell creation and folding it into enchanting is one way of doing it without losing the effects of spell creation.

Also, I was under the impression you receive spells the traditional way; via tomes, stores and scrolls. It seems like they're using perks to enhance what spells you already have, not give you what you don't have.

Then GTFO. You have nothing more to add to this discussion.

LOL

guys whats the point of spell making if your fire ball can do 10 damage if you tab once and 20 damage if you hold on for a sec and 30 if you hold on for 3

honestly let it go.

they can add spell making, but it will be pretty useless with the new spell system :shrug:

Because increased damage isn't the only benefit of making a spell, you would know this if actually experimented with the system beyond a damn fireball. Take your generic trigger holding bioshock ripoff spells and shove it.

I think we need to look at the possibilities, as BGS wouldn't have removed it if there was another system in place that made spell making redundant. See my post above for my suggestion as to one of the things that they MIGHT be doing.

If it is just a cash of the longer you hold, the more powerful it is, I hope it's not linear i.e. holding for 3 seconds when you're a lowly mage, is no where near as powerful as holding for 3 seconds when further progressed

Unless they add the ability to create a spell on the fly without an altar from the menu UI, nothing theyre doing could be redundant. No trigger holding wannabe action game bs can replace the ability to create and name a spell from scratch with specialized damage and modifiers.

It was my understanding that they removed Spell-making to make way for the new spell system we have in game.

Things like

Making a Fireball into a Flamethrower
Making Runes on the ground that may freeze enemies in place when they approach it.
holding down the spell button creating different effects
Combing spells to create an even more distinctive effect
Spells scaling due to perks

the fact that spells can scale, and even have different effects is more of a bonus than making a new fireball spell that had a larger impact radius or did 10 more damage.

I think we need to stop deluding ourselves that every time something is removed a magical solution that makes it better is in its place. You don't have a boo-boo and your mom kissing it isn't going to make it better.

Considering i'm fairly certain you haven't played the game you can't possibly be so certain of this. We have more customization than before, and as I said we know nothing about any of the crafting schools. I'm not so quick to jump to the conclusion that BGS is bringing about the Elderpocalypse.

My suggestion is offer alternatives and think of what might be there that we don't know of instead of resorting to a seemingly narrow point of view and suggesting Skyrim will be an action game. We all know it's far from that.

So you suggest we all become negative and assume nothing has replaced it? How is that helping to improve these forums? This is a discussion and I'm offering solutions to systems we know nothing about. I'd rather speculate about what could be there than complain about what isn't.

Being able to use a flamethrower vs. a fireball is not customization, it is nothing but an OPTION, predefined by the devs. Customization is when the player can experiment and create their own options, such as spells, and further make the world their own. Hey that enemy i just took down? That was my spell, my creation. Like that.

Damn straight!

...yet while all the focus is on the damaging spells, don't forget about the added PITAness of not being able to combine healing spells for your character or others.

The magic system will be completely lame if the only way we get spells is by perks.

We need to be able to purchase them, and even more important, design our own. The base vanilla magic system in Oblivion was far, far too underpowered, and it took awesome mods like Supreme Magicka to fix it and expand it, but without being able to craft our own spells, then that's another huge dumbing do...er....streamlin....um.... yeah, you get my point.

But, if I have to I'll just design my own damn spells in the CS.

Another thing is that what if you started as a purist mage, and kept making new spells as you get stronger and stronger (as you should) then your spell book might consist of a hundred variations of a fire spell, 50 frost spells, 80 Shock spells, 20 invisibility spells, 30 charm spells and so on. Eventually it was all just clutter in the spellbook.

Keeping a set number of spells with various effects that they can achieve is quite awesome, imagine how bad this would get to program if you added spellmaking.

Spells should also scale with 1, your level and 2, your perks. By combining the pre-made spells with perks means you do get a little bit of customization with them.

Definitely.