Quite simple with the maths, 2 spells with 2 variations = 2^2=4
3 spells with 3 variations 3^3 = 9, add in another variable 3^3^3=27

all you have to do is limit certain variables within the equation so you don't get unrealistic spells (like limit time on spells to 10, Keep Magnitude at 100, set Radius to 50 and so on)

so, a variable spell-making equation, Presuming you had 1 effect per spell, touch or ranged, time limit between 1 and 10, Magnitude between 1 and 100 and Radius Between 1 and 50 it would look like 85^2^10^100^50 (by limiting it to 1 effect and having the ten second cap on spells keeps it within plausible number of spells without consuming hundreds of mana per cast)

Looking over at Skyrim Style, with the general assumption that there are 18 perks per tree and over 150 spells in the game, and you can't really define time, only damage, which we'll presume uses the standard 1-100 as it increases as we level, and spell size we'll assume the same aswell. 3 effects per spell as thats all you got, dual wielding, 18 perks per tree, 1-100 damage and different radiuses (even if it didn't have that many radiuses, bouncing of walls increases the area a spell can hit),

150^18^100^50^3^2 compared to the
85^2^10^100^50 even if we added a secondary effect and cheated our magicka pool
85^85^2^10^100^50 they are still fairly similar in terms of total number of spells that can be achieved in game, the only difference is that you didn't name them.

Noone knows what each and every Perk does yet. there should be a perk called Pyromaniac though that focuses Fire Spells to cause more ongoing damage.

I prefer the game be balanced and challenging, and things like spell-making make that impossible. I'm glad it's gone.

No its more complex than that.
I wish I could find the thread the calculation was on.
One has to account for tertiary spell effects as well, as well as all the way up to eight effects for one spell with spellmaking.
That exponentially increases the possible number.
Another thing is that one must use statistics to correct for spells that can be created but are too useless for practical purposes, and other things, which cuts it down again.

I am not good enough in mathematics to go into too much detail but I know two things for certain.

It is not as simple as your equation.
And the number of possible spells with spellmaking is orders of magnitude greater than those of pre-set spells.

edit: at poster above me.
Comments like that really grind my gears. There are a million restrictive, narrow, shallow, linear action games out there. Go play one of those. For the love of all the Aedra do not petition to turn the one franchise that provides the gaming freedom I desire into the same as all the rest. 'Balanced and challenging' indeed. A game like Morrowind is as balanced and challenging as you make it. Spellmaking is an option, a choice, a freedom and has nothing to do with how challenging the game is, as long as you understand that it is you who decides how to play the game.
Argh.

You will learn spells in this game through Spell Tomes(confirmed) and probably by purchasing them from vendors. Spell making isnt gone for pc users though, Creation Kit will be available day one =T

I like the sound of this. Nehrim almost had the right idea with spell runes, but almost all of them were one that trainers can teach you. I love the idea of being able to find a rare spell hidden in a dungeon.

I know that, but keeping it realistic within what you WOULD use, ie. who the hell would make a 1pt per attribute fortify spell, which again, for each and every spell effect increases the amount of magicka needed EXPONENTIALLY. The Maths done on it seems to have no real bearing what-so-ever on how much Magicka is realistic per spell created. Hell, the amount of Magicka changed depending on what effect you wanted, so while Light was really cheap, Damage Health was very Magicka Intensive further limiting what you could do with the spell even on an Altmer born under the Atronach. It isn't feasible to calculate the amount of spells and spell combinations in the game with all of these variables.

its gone and deal with it. i like that it's gone actually. imo it makes mor sense to take it out, mortals dont make the energy we use for our spells the deadra and nine divines do. mortals only use thier willpower to bend energy of mundus to the char will. so it makes more sense to just learn new spells from magic merchants, the power of the spell is determined by your willpower.

Look I am done defending a mathematical equation I read half a year ago in my best high school math to someone else using high school math.
I have stated before that those factors you keep putting up have been dealt with.

For me, with my high school math, it seems clear that choice would give more options than restriction, but he, if someone wants to play devils advocate I am willing to humour them to a point.
That point has now been reached, I am done.

I dont care if you dont believe it for the exact same reason I dont care if people do not believe the world is round.
I know for a fact that mathematical constructs far more complex have been devised and are used in day-to-day life.
Equations that encompass far more variables and still come up with an answer that is reasonably correct.
In this case I am talking about weather prediction.
Stating that such an equation would not work based on my limited understanding of mathematics would be akin to me stating evolution cant exist, based on my high school understanding of biology.
A nonsense.

I'll say one more thing before i stop posting in this thread.

With the quick calculations i did before, it puts even Skyrim at over thousands of zeroes before you reach the decimal point, If that isn't enough Variations of the spell system in skyrim then i just don't know what to say to you...

Yeah, sure.
Just pretend people like Divayht Fyr, Sotha Sil, Phynaster etc. etc. never existed.
Way to retcon lore so that 'mortal magicka is stunted'.
In other universes perhaps, but in Tamriel magic is a science. It is not unlike physics or mathematics. It is by now well understood.
Making spellmaking non available to the PC is a massive slap in the face of established lore.

That does not give me a light a person on fire spell it means my side effect lasts a bit longer. Basically this is saying perks might half ass some features of spell making and you are stuck with it once you make the choice.

Unless I missed somthing, they haven't confirmed spell creation out yet. If thy do, then Skyrim is inferior to its predecessors.

True, they haven't confirmed it to be in or out ... yet. In my opinion, if they can find a way for the new spell system to allow for it, great! If not, oh well, i wont miss it.

And we all know if it really doesn't work in Skyrim, then ESVI will fix it. Much like enchanting was brought back as a skill.

*edited for clarity*

Spell making is make or break for me. No spell making=Rental and going back to previous ES games. Really not liking Beths sellout tactics.

thats what perks are for!

and with 85 spells and 3 variation of each thats 255 spells and with the new 2 H system the number will reach astronomic numbers ....1228250 variations IF every spell variation can be combined with another to produce something new

so Skyrim will have 1228250 new spells (of course its less cause not EVERY spell use will be combine-able with every other spell use)

I just took the math approach and if spells are "chargeable" then u can add that to the cake of awesomeness

yah sorry spell making is just useless and redundant and people who want it might just be [censored] out of luck

As long as the spells are no longer all the same glowing glob of boring as they were in Oblivion they can't be worse. I want the spells to feel different as I am using them and not just different values taken from a spreadsheet and applied to another glowing ball.

Nope, spell creation>attaching spells to both hands and feet for that matter. And it was never useless, or redundant. SC offers limitless possobilities, and RP potential. Perks definitely shouldnt be for spell effects.

I get so annoyed by the word redundant that Ill copy/ paste something I said on it from another thread.

"There are a few words which really make me cringe on this forum.
One of them is 'redundant'.
I really find it a most obnoxious little meme, that as far as I can tell is some sort of hommage to a marketing one-liner.
For the love of all the Et'Ada, why wont some plane of Oblivion swallow those who use it? "

Meanwhile, on the number of possible spells, spellmaking trumps pre-set spells by orders of magnitude.
That means that ten to the power of three is greater than ten to the power of two.

Then I hope for your sake it'll be in (or some iteration of it), because I'm sure there will be many other brilliant things to experience. I also don't think they're selling out, but making a game that's fun that they want to play. It may be that you and the BGS devs have a different idea of what's fun.

In any rate, as long as I can make a character and wander aimlessly for hours on end in an open world I'll be happy.

I got to go with Xarnac on this one. With SC, you could create a spell that worked for YOU. It beats out anything that Skyrim would replace it with. If I want to make an AoE Rally+Fortify Health, I want to.

I hope for everyone's sake its in. Even people that never used it. Especially for them, since they apparently didnt know what they were missing. When they say spellmaking was "too speadsheety" and "pick up and play" and "Now you can just switch from a thief to a mage on the fly", PR jargon like that says "sell out" to me.


Or Frenzy+Rally+Fortify Speed+invisibility, for some truly depraved amusemant.

this

SO MUCH THISNESS

What PR Jargon/Buzzword doesn't work on you? But Buzzword, pr jargon, so buzzword makes it all pr jargon. So if I repeat back buzzword and pr jargon it all makes sense.