Well I think Encumbrance and Fatigue system must be reworked and have more impact on player game experience, not be just limit to maximum capacity of player inventory thats force player to stop his traveling and go sell his loot, or Fatigue be just an green moving UI bar like it was in Oblivion, where it regenerates too fast have no visible impact on Magic at all, and have miserable effect on running, restore fatigue effect was so common in Oblivion (I believe thats was done for RAI hunger NPC action) http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Fatigue_Game_Settings, but most of them just don't have great impact on it, they are overwhelmed by speed of Fatigue regeneration because of miserable values, its the same flaw stealth have improved game mechanic overwhelmed by psychic guards and stolen marks, Oblivion has many of such strange anomalies, thats looks like devs have small time limits and hurry with release to some external milestone, anyway lets discuss how make Encumbrance and Fatigue more advanced and interesting than before.

What flaws we can see in Oblivion Encumbrance and Fatigue system?
Over-encumbrance thats paralyze %PCname from single miserable berry
Total weight carried has no effect on your Speed only equipped items counts:
weight of inventory doesn't have any impact on Sneak but weight of boots have it, so thats barefoot Orc warrior in steel full-plate and with iron battle hammer and full inventory of loot can sneak at the same level as this barefoot Khajiit thief in leather armor and with glass dagger and with nothing in pockets, but I must say there is still one exception its speed of movement its taken in account for equipped items but changes aren't significant to make large difference,
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Movement_Formulas thats mostly prevent from making system more contrast.
NPC doesn't affected much by Encumbrance and Fatigue penalties
Burden and feather spells become mostly useless
There is mostly no difference between light armor and heavy armor

Fatigue: Thats Green and Important parameter bar
Fatigue system need be more Important then before, its third parameter of player and must have same value as Health and Magicka or even more since its important for all classes.
http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Fatigue_Game_Settings but for some reason many of them have to small value or even stetted to zero so have no impact at all or impact is miserable
Fatigue from casting spells too small, fatigue regeneration slowing during run miserable, Encumbrance didn't have any impact on fatigue expect of weapon weight (but 0.1 too small value for taking it into account)
OK what we already know for first Skyrim will have sprint thats will burn fatigue but allow run much faster, for second Skyrim will have cooking
maybe now restore fatigue effect in ingredients will be not so frequent as before so cooking will great improvement, another thing cooking need for eating maybe basic need will be also implemented, maybe settings will no more have zero value and be more contrast then before so will have greater impact.
Nice to see some improvement in vanila game like in this mods so console users can also feel more game experience then before
SM Encumbrance and Fatigue
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12074
Realistic Fatigue
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10925
Fatigue Effects
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20850
Fatigue and Sleeping
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19501
SM Combat Regen
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29095
SM Hand Combat
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18834
Audacious Magery
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25844
Sorcerys Toll
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20000
Fizzle
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25616
Such features can be added to hardcoe mod I don't believe all console gamers casuals, they love conquer hard achievement why not add some nice features from PC mods for them, I believe they will be happy.

Encumbrance: Beast of Burden and Cursed Berry
Encumbrance must have different levels not just one over-encumbered state and not encumbered like before, there must be stages of Encumbrance like

Not encumbered and lightly encumbered
Encumbrance limit was reached from 0 to 50% of limit
Player can sprint (greatly use fatigue maybe double or triple of standard running, speed attribute receive %-age bonus thats depend on perks or level of athletics, player cannot use weapons or shields without additional training in thats state but can receive perks like Shield Charge allow more powerful shield bash thats receive bonus from momentum and allow bash more actors in one time, or Weapon Charge thats allow do more powerful weapon power attack with greater chance staggering enemy and do more damage to enemy equipment like shields or armors)
player can run (fatigue usage depend on athletics skill) on full of his speed attribute
player can swim with 70% of his speed attribute (swimming burn fatigue more then running, leveling of athletics will reduce penalty, Argonians can have racial perk thats nullify swim penalties from the beginning) player can swim faster if will use sprint button (without penalty but cannot use weapons)
Player can jump without any penalty to acrobatics
Player doesn't have any penalty to Stealth.

Average encumbered
Encumbrance limit was reached from 50-100% of limit
Player can sprint,
player can run (but running have 50% speed penalty leveling of armor skill will reduce such penalty)
player can swim with half of his speed attribute.
Jumping will burn twice more fatigue then lightly encumbered character burn, jump height reduced by one level (I believe acrobatics is a leveled perk in athletics now thats add features like jump height, falling damage reduction, dodging&rolling and have 5 levels for example)
Stealth have 50% penalty, leveling of sneak skill along with leveling of light armor will reduce such penalty, but heavy armor will still has thats penalty anyway.

Burdened
Encumbrance limit was overweight by 50%, in Oblivion thats will mean over-encumbered state without any possibility to move until you will drop thats cursed berry :teehee: but now thats will work in different way
Player cannot sprint, fatigue is drained by constant rate even if character do nothing expect of carry such large inventory and so much weighting equipment, still can run but fatigue usage more since burden draining also added to fatigue usage along with running there is still 50% penalty to speed, stealth greatly reduced, acrobatics have 3 level reduction, swimming speed have 75% penalty.

Over-encumbered
Encumbrance limit was overweight by two times and more,
Fatigue not regenerate at all and still drained, player are crushed by inventory weight and receive overtime random damage to HP, cannot run only walk with very slow speed (or be forced into sneaking state since animation already crouched) or cannot move at all and being fall like zeroed fatigue and still receive damage since fatigue is not regenerates to continue to move only if receive buff from magic/potion and great Fatigue pool can save from Death, cannot swim and drowning fast in water, cannot jump, stealth is zeroed.

Changes in Spells: Feather & Wings, Alternation and You
Alternation school must be equal option to mages as well as Destruction and Restoration which was to powerful because of assimilating of spell effects from other schools, alternation was to simplified in Oblivion school lost many spell effects, now when Mysticism gone some of it spell effects belong to Alternation I believe.
If such simplification will continue in TESVI we will lost more schools until only Destruction Summoning and Restoration will left.

Feather spell need to be improved, before Feather spell was inferior to Fortify Strength for increasing Encumberance. Though they both have the same base cost, each point in Strength increases your maximum Encumbrance by 5 points, thus making it 5x more effective than Feather. Additionally, this will increase your melee damage, another perk, Items enchanted with Fortify Strength at the Altar in the Arcane University offer more carrying capacity than items enchanted with Feather; at the highest level, the amount is the same.

Since new magic system is based on premade unique spells with different magic effects there can be such improvements
Feather effect become combined with slowfall, Feather have smaller cost then fortify strength difference between spells become better and Feather become useful,
and if it will combined with Water Walk or Levitation will become truly useful, enemy mages can continue pursuit and solve obstacles between them and %PCname like rocks and walls also they can maneuver without backward strafe penalty, during levitation like a lich in oblivion thats will make them more interesting enemies then before and solve problems of AI pathfinding.
When casted on-self and used in combination with telekinesis or charged with both hands its even will allow Jump (like Jump spell in Morrowind) and Fly in cost of large amounts of drained or used Magicka, change your second spell-hand and you will slowly fall or glide down, change your feather spell hand and you will fall down much faster.
Also if levitation need much powers from user its defiantly will be great for high level mages, without such powers and Magicka reserves it can work like jump and slowfall\feather spell combination, journeymans can levitate like lich in Oblivion and not suffer from backward strafe like archers, thats can be channeling spell so need concentration for it e.g have no weapon in hands or have free hand for channeled spell and enemy strike can distract mage concentration or it can drain Magicka constant.
For example such spells work in dynamic magic concept of new magic system: Alter Gravity spell


At Novice level its work like feather spell on self, as burden at enemy, as gravitation trap thats slowing enemy on ground and charge will allow Jump at two times higher then normal jump, when channeled spell allow Slowfall, as channeled spell can be interrupted by lucky strike of enemy or (battle mages can have special training for reducing such chances thats can be implemented with perk) or with spell like Burden or paralyze or can be cleansed with Dispel or when Magicka is not sufficient for work of spell, channeled spells use different amounts of Magicka when it not sufficient its downgrades to lower perk for example mage has 150 Magicka float use 50 for cast and 5 drain for each second when Magicka lowered under 50 float will be changed with slowfall, additional checks can be added like check of player Fatigue and level of Encumbrance when Over-encumbered for example can become Burdened but instead of levitation will only allow float.

At Apprentice level when Mage understood Alternation better, Magnitude of Feather will rise, Magnitude of Burden rise, gravitation trap thats maximum burden enemy he still can attack but cant move and sink in water, charge will allow Jump at three times higher then normal jump, Mage can walk on water and don't crumble ice during channeling, but receive damage from walking over magma or another dangerous substance.

At Journeyman level Magnitude of Feather will rise, Magnitude of Burden rise more, gravitation trap thats paralyze enemy, charge will allow jump four times higher then normal jump, channel will allow float like a Lich and strafe backward without penalty, floating not allow change altitude higher then one jump height or half of it, anything higher will slowly decrease with Slowfal to one jump height or half of it, but can float over dangerous environment like lava and pits don't trigger pressure plates or similar traps.

At Expert level Magnitude of Feather will rise, Magnitude of Burden rise more, gravitation trap thats thats additionally squash enemy at end of duration, charge will allow jump five times higher then normal jump, channel will allow Levitate with both hand if another hand was equipped with something else not with gravitation spell player lose ability to rise altitude and start slow fall if spell was removed from both hands player will fall fast as normally, levitation use much more Magicka then float or water walk for cast and can drain more for sustaining.

At Master level Magnitude of Feather will rise, Magnitude of Burden rise more, gravitation trap thats rise and fall enemy into air at end of duration, charge will allow jump six times higher then normal jump, channel will allow Levitate with one hand.

With skill levels in Alternations school power of Burden and Feather will rise automatically as base spell, while channeling, charge and traps can require additional perks and added by perks dynamically by scripts into base spell when spell casted, all previous spell effects staked in higher level spell so for example Apprentice can both slowfall and and waterwalk, such way will allow remove from casted spell effects in restricted areas or trigger zones so there can be places where such magic negated like Mournhold in Morrowind just with simple script or create enemies thats invulnerable for such effect but can be harmed by other effects from that spell.


Don't need fear of features, don't need to remove interesting but flawed features fix them or let others to do thats.

You know i love it when someone puts some real time and effort into a thread... Now i will edit this post when i have read the rest of the OP and give my opinions... See you in half hour :wink_smile:

Hi i take it English isn't your first language...

Some interesting points regarding fatigue and encumberance. The problem i see is that if you were to start applying speed restrictions as you gradually gained loot etc.. it would have a somewhat annoying impact on the rest of the experience. I dont mind the system how it has always been. Being unable to move as soon as you exceed your limit is maybe a tad harsh, so limited to walking speed seems acceptable as in Fallout, and in my opinion is the most likely. However there could be a restriction at intervals of encumberance, for example 50% full would give you a -5 speed penalty maybe. I dont know if i would like that personally because i love to collect stuff and i also love to be quick! So maybe a perk to take away the speed penalties... I really dont know, just throwing some ideas out there.

As for additional spells... I am really excited to see what they do with the other spell schools after seeing what they have done with the variety available with destruction for example. It would be nice for some exclusive spells for pure mage types... litteraly only available to mages at the top of the skill level.

In skyrim I think we will find there is no strength stat and that incentory limits are race based. Its very likely enchanting alchemy and magic will all have feather effects.

As far as mages needing stamina.... no. From the look of it mages will only need magicka warriors will need health and stamina and rogues will need stamina and health.. in that order.

Also remember you get to chose likely 10 extra hps 10 magicka or 10 stamina on level up.. plus you likely get 10 hps per level automaticaly. This likely means warriors wont need too much stamina and that rogues will and thaqt mages wont need any.

Thanks

Yes you right


Feather can be actual useful as well as Burden thats applied both for player and NPC, Strength still rise Encumbrance limit thats 500 at Strength of 100 what is http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Attributes and even can rise more.
Player will use Backpacks
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21721
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16443
Or use Saddlebags
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2008
or pack creatures
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/36966-2-1296842852.jpg
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/4387-1-1204333217.JPG
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/18998-3-1218834745.jpg
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/10053-1-1195676644.jpg
http://fessicsfavorites.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/packrat-upgrade.jpg
or can hire mercenary for moving his loot or give it to companion
There is many option not only Magical inventory thats almost didn't have impact on gameplay.


Well 5 speed isn't great number since it can been overlapped easy with small buff or enchant, percentage is better for such penalty work


Yes I'm also excited about it, I really want to see thats new magic system and try some spellmaking at last in CS if not in game.
Since number of perks is limited there will be better specialization even without classes, so if new magic system is really dynamic like I think its can solve many problems and make mage experience even more rich then before with classical magic system.

I don't think Attributes are gone, they are fundamental how you can base new skills or perks without of any base under them? how better perform checks and make difference between NPC or creatures only by outcome parameters like Health and Magicka?
Attributes will be in game.
Limit Encumbrance by races isn't great since non powerful races will suffer greatly from thats, and there is non confirmed any ways to improve it.

If Feather still flawed thats not make much sense since Fortify Strength will be better.

Why?
Fatigue based not only on Endurance and Strength and must equally important for all, not only warriors must feel its importance but rogues and mages also
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Fatigue
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Fatigue
Or you think sneak around pull bows and control powerful winds of Magic isn't hard at all?

I understood they want remove +5 attribute bonus problem for players who disappointed many gamers in first time but there is better ways to improve leveling instead of removing of attributes or making worse simplifications
nGCD
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14065
KCAS
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1888
Oblivion XP
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15619

So, if I understand your "Alter Gravity" spell correctly, you want to increase Alteration's (Only one 'n', on the end of the word) power and importance by combining most of the spells in the school into one uber-spell that does everything depending what it's cast on? I'll pass, thank you very much. :shrug:

Well don't forget thats we didn't have spellmaking now and will have only premade spells which number is limited to 85,
there will be 5 schools of magic so around of 17 for all, we know thats there is tendency for making Destruction and Restoration more powerful by assimilating spell effects from other schools and we lose Mysticism school but it effects was spread between other schools, there is no any evidence thats even all spell effects from Oblivion (which was reduced and make Mysticism mostly useless, make Alternation not equal to other schools) will be in Skyrim.

I think chose between no such spells at all because they was not so popular or was flawed and eventually become 'Superfluous' along with school thats govern it
and between one uber-spell that does everything depending what it's cast on, leveled with skills of mage saving spellbook from cluttering with spells thats have only difference in power, have scripted effects and unique visuals, will return spell effect thats was gone in Oblivion, become actual chose for Mage specialization and will make enemy Mages more interesting in combat, isn't hard.
So Yes you right I think such uber-spell can be better, so you don't think so?
Thats spell isn't uber or overpowered its will make useful spell effects thats was seared and not important more useful, include some fixes for overpowered spell effects like levitation, return popular and interesting effect like jump and slowfall.
Its PREMADE unique spell, done with scripting and assembled from standard spell effects not hardcoded just assembled into unique form.
But if we can also assemble similar spells in CS its will be much better I think.

Well...
Fatigue:
I'm pretty sure in Oblivion when your fatigue runs out you do very minimal damage, at least I tend to experience that.

It should have a bigger effect, but it also needs a bigger pool, so we don't tire out completely after 4 flings with the sword. Also, it could be something like in Daggerfall and Arena, where it has a big pool, but it doesn't, or very slowly refills itself. It also could be used for hunger and sleep.

Encumbrance:
This is one of my hated things in nearly all RPGs. Maybe it's because I like to hoard stuff, but I always have to fight with Encumbrance. Morrowind had a system where heavy loot would slow you down, and because of that travelling by foot was way too slow. So unless we get some pack-animals, carts, portable-dimensional holes, no.

Alteration:
Alteration was useless in Oblivion? With nearly all of my characters I picked alteration as a major skill, and one of my first spells tend to be the shield and water walking/breathing spell. Burden was pretty useless, yeah, but it could be made into a slow spell or something...

Dont worry about atributes being gone. Its not shocking and it actualy doesnt change as much as one might think.

Now instead of s flabby stat system they can use race and perks... much more robust system with alot more flexability and complexity yet extremely simple to use and understand. Everyone can understand that a high elf is a mage race and that perks in a magic skill would help a magic character. As far as encumbrance goes... everyone can understand at a glance that race x can cart around more then race y and that say mercantile the looter/shopaholic skill would have perks for increasing it... if it does;/

As far as stamina goes... I dont see a PURE mage needing to ever pick it. Yes maybe a hybrid char but a pure mage? And we likely get enough at the start we wouldnt realy need to worry as long as we play as a pure mage would tend to.

Dont forget bethesda changes things.. arena after all didnt even have skills.... They arnt afraid to change to keep the game interesting and fun.