Damn good point as the tooling costs to press DVD's is pretty high and a 32GB USB stick is worth hardly anything to a company Beths size, but they would still probably use the same lame excuse "Pirates" as if that's really going to stop someone out there finding ways of making illegal copies.

No point in saying "get pissed off with your service provider" if that's all they can provide you with, maybe there is no ADSL, or you have to use Mobile Broadband which is very restrictive, all Internet users cannot get the same blinding speeds and huge download usage as those in cities and other higher populated areas. Those stuck out in more rural areas only get what they are given and pay a hell of a lot more money for way less of a service, so those people should then be penalised by buying what was advertised as a DVD purchase with no mention on the box you needed to be able to download 20GB. BTW I'm no longer in that rubbish situation but if I could buy a full DVD version instead of a Steam download I damn well would.

Right because that has everything to do with the fact that I purchased a hard copy of a game that did not have the game on it.

Joke or.....?

Comparative cost of burning DVD's vs flash drives is crazy high to the flash drive side. From a manufacturing perspective, it doesn't make a lot of sense. You can buy 100 DVDs to one flash drive lol

I really don't care. It has nothing to do with my complaint which was I purchased a hard copy of a software product and there was nothing on the disk.

You're right. They should have just said no physical copies for PC players.

the CD is basically the security key & that's it svcks that there are still real ***** ISP's out there that refuse to offer unlimited internet but that's life I seriously wouldn't expect the digital download to change

I'm just really shocked there's so many PC gamers on such junk ISP's. Isn't that a gigantic bottleneck?

Then why bother with offering a physical copy when you can download it without a disk straight from Steam? Which I am doing now and have been doing for the past six hours with 8 hours to go. And then I'll need to download any patches that have been released. It makes zero sense.

It is killing me how many people are rationalizing this garbage away.

Did they say how unusually large the download would be?

You are of the fortunate FEW in the world that has access to fast and affordable internet. Consider yourself fortunate.

Still it has no bearing whatsoever upon the fact that Bethesda/Zenimax are selling hard copies of a software product that has no software on it, except a Steam client.

It makes no reasonable sense.

Umm Retail DVD's are not burned, they have to get a master die made with something like lasers to press the information into those 'silver' looking DVD's you get when you buy a new game, the engineering required to produce such a die is bloody impressive. Burnable DVD's are coated in a Coloured Die which I believe is now being replaced with a fine crushed stone because the die used failed to last on DVD's, the CD's however where far better, look for M-Disk capable DVD burners they are the newer burner the older ones where rubbish.

He still has every right in the world to complain about this on the forums. Also, thanks to him, anyone coming onto the forums considering purchasing this game will see this thread and be warned, as Bethesda certainly isn't getting the word out.

Come on guys, is this really our excuse for this? That other game companies do the same scummy thing so we shouldn't complain about Bethesda doing it? I struggle to understand why people will defend everything this company does. Who does that help? I see this on the EA and Ubisoft forums as well and it never ceases to baffle me.

Sure, maybe other companies have done this as well, but how does that justify Bethesda doing it as well?

Not so simple depending on where you live in the world. Thankfully I live near the city, but lots of people in rural area (Alaska, parts of the midwest) get very poor internet service and any improvements are more expensive than they would be where I live.

I think that covers it all, no previous Beth press release covers up for the lack of very relevant information on the packaging and yea just because one company does it so now it's fine for them all, the OP has every right to complain he was sold a product that was not what it was described as, The DVD Version of FO4

Exactly. Since when do we have to do extensive research and be invested in the community of a game that doesn't exist yet in order to get basic information on whether or not a game will work as advertised.

Regardless, they never told anyone HOW MUCH of a download would be required. No argument in the world can justify that.

Its not fair to valve when people buy a game from a physical storefront, its like theft. Physical stores sell the game without a license or paying any fees to valve which is not fair and literally robs them of food off their tables. This practice really should be stopped to protect consumers, there is no way to now if its even safe to buy the game with no extended legal contractual relationship between the customer and the store.

I honestly don't know how to respond to this.

Wow, my thoughts exactly.

OP, the majority of the markets around the world do NOT have data caps. Not "many of us" or you would not have companies like Microsoft rolling out a new OS as download-only, let alone products like MS Office. MS is only an example as most companies do this now regardless of software. That's also why streaming services are eating cable companies for lunch.

Bring it up as a concern, sure, although I can pretty much guarantee that Bethesda considered it when rolling the game out. However, as we see, it is not enough of a concern to warrant offering the full software on disc just as so many companies no longer do. Nothing new here.

Think about people in certain areas that do not even have broadband, or even lack any Internet at all.

These are not the markets companies making software are aiming at, that's all. Nor are the aiming at people who have low-spec machines, for example.

Bethesda stated the approximate download size prior to launch. The size of the game is also stated in the requirements. People who do not listen cannot blame Bethesda, at least not with any validity.

You have totally, completely and utterly missed the point of this post.

I bought a hard copy of the game, or so I was lead to believe. On this hard copy was not the software but a Steam client.

If it said anywhere in the product description that the software was not on the hard copy I would have bought it directly from Steam and would have been playing the game the day after release. The hard disk copy of this game is pointless!

The reason people like to have hard copies is so that they do not have to download the software, for whatever reason.

Imagine this; You buy a car but before you can drive it off of the lot the dealership says that they have to put it in the shop to have it's engine installed. You know because pirates might steal it otherwise.

Oh my god you really believe the majority of the markets around the World do not have Data Cap's Seriously there are still people out there who do not understand that no data cap is for the 'minority' of the worlds Internet users, after all the comments and debates about automatic updates and huge downloads required to patch games over the years and you still cannot get it that many, many people just have not got the data allowance to cover it.

Try this on for size: Australia have many areas where only dial up or Mobile Broadband works, Mobile Broadband per month can be as high as $110 Aussie for 15GB YES 15GB, that approx. $72 American $'s?

Imagine trying to download 20+GB and still share your allowance amongst you family, those of you lucky enough to get these great deals should remember there are more out there that do not get what you do.

But the OP was talking about the rip-off of selling a DVD version of a game and then having to download the bulk of it, consumer laws in Australia allowed the return of software that required an Internet Connection for registration if you didn't have the Internet you obviously could not register the game, WHY? Because the packaging did not say an Internet Connection was required to register, they changed that pretty quick, the same goes with this situation if it's not written on the packaging you need to download most of the game it should allow buyers to return their purchases (unopened) and claim a refund. There is one here who did that by cancelling his order with Amazon, well done that man, the more people who do that and support the OP there is a slight chance Beth and the others may take some notice

Thats your reason for wanting one. Clearly thats not what theyre providing, because thats not the main goal of a "physical copy". Theyre providing a box with a shiny graphic on it and a pricetag. In reality, its meant to sit for sale in a brick and mortar store and generate mom sales because they heard their kid talking about it for xmas. Its meant to be an alternative point of sale for the game, not the solution for a small portion of gamers thats arent connected well to the internet.

Its not the Fallout: Alaskan Frontiersman edition, the Cord-Cutter's edition etc. If you were expecting all the gigs to be on disk, then sure, it makes no sense. But if you take your assumption of why a physical copy exists as wrong, then the presence of a physical copy makes perfect sense.

This is a false statement. 60% of the world doesn't even have internet, including parts of the US, let alone a high-speed capless broadband connection.

Are you stoned?

Retail copies (discs) have nothing to do with Steam (other than being activated on it). Steam is a key reseller same as Green Man Gaming, Amazon Digital, Game fly etc. If anything... publishers and developers should be getting more from Steam.

In the case of Fallout, Steam is handling the keys exclusively. A deal I'm sure factored in the download of the game (bandwidth). Steam lost nothing here and probably gained a ridiculous amount of money.