plus I′m sure you can do some extra work for NPC to get a few coins

Actually, he has a point... It's an immutable fact that 90% of everything is [censored]. However, the 10% makes it all worth it. However, he has the motivation wrong. Everything needs to change and evolve to be fun, as the number of flaws in every game can attest. And even that which isn't completely broken needs to be improved. The problem is the risk of the Solution being worse than the original problem. So, we keep the good 10% of innovation, and toss out the bad 90% during QA testing. Unfortunately, while the average game inverts the ratio, the 90% comes back when viewing the entire industry.


I can assure you your final statement is false. Every gamer wants fun and gameplay. The problem is, they aren't finding it.


And on topic:

^This. I tried adding more, but can't think of many that he hasn't covered or I'm to embarrased to admit.

again...because they think fun can only be found in the things that are new.

That's what games are about. If it's something I've done before why shouldn't I go back and play the old game? I still play Smash Bros Melee, because except for the balance issues it's still funner than Brawl. I've played Baldur's Gate 2 more than Dragon Age because it's a better game. New things are the reason anyone buys new games at all.

in part true, but what new that needs to be is different for everyone, for many a new story, a new tweak here and there is all that′s needed.

So... do you stop seeing movies and reading books now? What makes you think its not among the best? Game developers these days usually hire some of the most talented writers for their games, especially those that have to be very open.

Personally, I'm not in it for "30 seconds of fun," I'm more interested in hours/days of fun to be had, and I AM seeing that so far. TES games have traditionally been about large open expanses that you can explore, and finding the story and connections there. Everything we've been told says that this game will be just like that.

It is a fine balance, sometimes it is safer to go with a formula that works however if most game developers were too afraid to try new things then we would all still be playing pong.

No they don't, they hire the same people they always have. Because the best writers in the world usually like having creative control. We already know the story is "you're the last of your kind" (too many to count) and a wise old man will teach you the ways of the force magic dragoborn in order to defeat the empire Voldemort Sauron the dragons.

Oh, and the "30 seconds of fun" is a reference to one of the basic tenets of game design. Get 30 seconds of fun that the player can repeat over and over and you've got yourself a game. Everyone buys it to have their "30 seconds" of fun, however many of them a game may contain and however many times you may do it, it's still what you're doing.

The Greybeards. Nobody else has Greybeards. I'm hopeful the Alduin confrontation will be mind-blowing, too.

And by confrontation, I'm talking dialogue.

Yeah gotta disagree with this bash. I enjoyed both of the last 2 TES games to a greater or lesser degree. Morrowind completely trumped Oblivion for atmosphere.

Yea, it might be difficult for you to imagine, but not all creatives are interested in doing the same thing with their careers. By your assumption, anyone working as a team on anything must be doing it purely because they have no other option, rather than what we know to be true, that there are many people out there that would love to work in the game industry and on a project with a team of other creative individuals. There is amazing talent out there for the game industry, in all categories.

As for the story... yes of course it has some archetypes in it. What stories don't? If you create a story that has absolutely no archetypes(or those used very rarely), you run the risk of making it very alien and complicated. A viable option, if that is what you want, but I don't think that is what they are going for here. Also, archetypes, which exist in nearly all good stories, doesn't mean its not creative. Its just the scaffolding.

Yes, I know what you were referring to, what I'm saying is that the "30 second" repeatable content is not important to me, its the content that lets me keep redoing that 30 seconds that matters, AKA story, exploration, and whatever else. I'd think Skyrim's "30 Secs" is obviously. Just like Morrowind and Oblivion, it'll be combat. Like always, random encounters, story quests, and dragons. Why would it be anything else?

I just logged off of Everquest, funny that you should mention it! Everquest's crafting is archaic and very bad by today's standards (I should get around to using those 300 blue diamonds I have saved to max my jewelcrafting trophy heh). Modern crafting minigames are far more entertaining.

I disagree that without TES in the title it would seem "tame" as you put it. I got introduced to this game with Oblivion and I fully expect to be blown away. I'm intrigued by the new magic and perk systems and the dragon shouts. Even if it was just like Oblivion or Morrowind I'd be interested too! Look at a series like Mega Man! So many games all hardly different at all. There are only a small handful of games like The Elder Scrolls in existence. I'm excited even if it's just for the lore and exploring another province!

Stop worrying. Skyrim will be great. From what we've been shown, the radiant AI is likely to blow us away, and the atmosphere of the game looks great.



You need to cool your head, dude.

If you don't like crafting, don't do it. The point of the elder scrolls is to explore and role-play within a brand new world, and the gameplay should help the player do these things. The quests and the stories behind them should help the player ground themselves within this worlds culture, and history. You have never enjoyed the world of Skyrim and it's story in any other video game. If you can't find value in this, maybe you shouldn't be playing Bethesda's games. What makes a game, book, song, or painting good is it's ability to take us away into a different world, a different way of thinking, and leave us with a better understanding of ourselves and the world we live in. If it just leaves you with an empty hole, then it has little or no value, and in some cases can actually be emotionally degrading. I believe the story behind the Elder Scrolls has plenty of value, and I'm sorry you haven't been able to see and engage in that.

Slaying dragons, summoning assassins, and pissing off NPC's are not what make a good game, those are minor elements that should work towards the progression of your character and their place within the game world, and can hopefully provide some means of entertainment.

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/treyarch-%E2%80%9Cangry%E2%80%9D-gamers-stifle-innovation so then developers stick with the things they've done in the past and make only slight changes to the formula and everybody goes LOL REHASH.

(hurr durr call of duty never innovated anything treyarch more like [censored]arch)

look at how many people complained at Bioware tightening up Mass Effect 2's combat, and how many are complaining about Dragon Age 2 for doing the same thing. look at how many people whined about Bethesda ditching the [censored] in Oblivion that nobody used in Morrowind in order to focus on the things that people actually did use (and how many whined about the exact same thing in Morrowind from Daggerfall), and how many are whining about Bethesda overhauling their skill and leveling systems even further in favor of better, tighter gameplay in Skyrim.

"IT'S NOT AN RPG ANYMORE GUYS IT'S CASUAL CONSOLE ACTION STUFF. I DON'T WANT FABLE I WANT SPREADSHEETS AND MORE MIN/MAXING POTENTIAL. THIS IS INEXCUSABLE. (PS ADD SPEARS AND CROSSBOWS.)" this is what Bethesda sees when they read these forums, and this is what they've seen every day since even before Oblivion came out.

so what if crafting was in other games? Doom had shooting, and a lot of people think it's never been topped - does that mean no other game is allowed to build upon that and go in different directions with it and make it feel fresh and new and exciting and fun? a lot of people consider Dark Messiah of Might and Magic to be the pinnacle of melee combat in games, does that mean no other game is allowed to use that as inspiration to go in a different direction with it?

personally i feel it says a lot about Bethesda that they're willing to completely start over with each game instead of approaching it with a "oh they liked this, let's just keep that and add this and maybe change that and call it THE ELDER SCROLLS V: MORROWIND II: CONFLUENT WARFACE" perspective like so many other developers do.