One metaphor I've never quite understood: what does America mean for Ulysses? Is it just missles? Is it an idea? Is it a historical event that the factions of today would gladly like to ignore and not learn from, and Ulysses would like to highlight it (via using missles from America itself) to make them learn?
He never explains much of it and thus you're left to speculate based on very vague details from holotapes accounting the discussions he had with the Think Tank.

I've never been able to quite figure out what America means to him. Any ideas?
Also if anyone has any OTHER details of Ulysses and his philosophies that they don't understand or would like to discuss, feel free to bring them up. Ulysses is a complicated guy and I'm sure many are confused by him, and yet they'd like to understand him.

I think Ulysses sees America as an idea, Hoover Dam, Vegas, The Divide, all things that prove what kind of power lied in the Old World. But I think he sees it as a giant that the people worship out West. The Old World died because it was overpopulated and hard pressed to find resources for things. He's right on NCR being a tribe of children not knowing what they follow. They're unknowingly following in America's footsteps, growing at a rate faster than their resources can keep up.

In vague terms, I think he believes the idea of America is alive, but he doesnt believe people should revive old world things to make old world ideas, and that is why he loved The Divide, it was a nation that was building upon a new idea using the ways of the old.

I think he sees America as an ancient, powerful place but he doesn't want people to go back to that due to how catastrophically it ended.

From my view point, he saw it as a sleeping giant that was an example of its & others failures; but it still held onto great powers.

I believe Ulysses thought of the Divide community before the nukes detonated as America, or the essence of it. Ulysses may have thought the pre-nuked Divide and America were synonymous due to all the American imagery in the Divide. I'm not saying he could not differentiate the pre-war superpower from the community The Courier established, but he probably adopted American symbolism due to his attachment to the America-like Divide community, because the Divide community embodied American ideals such as independence and strength as a nation. So when Ulysses speaks of America, he may be speaking of the Divide's pre-disaster community and what it stood for.

It makes sense, given Ulysses' preference for symbolism.

What I got out of the various dialogue trees was that Ulysses viewed America as an example of how to "break" a nation. He went to the Think Tank to ask what makes a nation and what breaks them, and, from what I understand, he asked them that question so that he could better understand which nation is truly best for the Mojave. He learned that America, the old world, essentially destroyed itself because of various factors, and he also saw many of those same factors in the NCR. So he determined that the NCR would eventually destroy itself, since it was clinging on to the old world without really understanding that the old world had failed and destroyed itself. Ulysses determined the NCR to be the epitome of ignorance to past, to history, and he didn't want them expanding any further and ruining anymore land (the Mojave)

So he decided to destroy the NCR, and, using knowledge gained from the Think Tanks, set off to find the remaining nuclear weapons in the Divide. America taught Ulysses that nukes are pretty damn effective when it comes to breaking a nation, and that they would make a fitting end to NCR's hopes in the Mojave. Wearing the flag of the old world on his back - a symbol of his burden to finally put the failed ideas of the past to rest - Ulysses wanted to use the final "spears" of the old world to destroy the failing old world ideas upheld by the NCR.

In this situation, I think he's like the Joker. He wants it all to burn.

He wants to destroy the NCR, paving the way for the Legion to push west and turn on each other. Then there's almost nothing left.

He doesn't support any of the options the character can follow because what he wanted was the Divide. Alas, it isn't really habitable anymore.

It doesn't matter what flag you support. Ulysses doesn't like it. Whether its the Old World Flag with Mr. House, the Bull, Bear, or none at all (Independence), he thinks that none of them will last.

Its complicated.

Ulysses is a little more friendly if you're legion, and if you can prove you believe in independence, then he will show some respect towards you. I think he just doesn't like NCR or House.

Legion is also a nation that will fail. Funny, the two biggest nations in America, probably the world then are some that wont last too long. I believe Ulysses, we cannot rebuild the old world. If we do we could as well kill ourselves again.
BTW does anyone know that if u wanna return to the divide if u can take followers with you then?

Maybe he sees it as a home.

He's a little more friendly with all of them except NCR

He complains that you aren't truly of the Legion if you are from the west.
He complains that bringing back the Old World is a dangerous theory and than House should be silenced.
He complains that NCR is a tribe of children with old world values that they do not understand.
He complains that you believe in nothing.

Anything with Ulysses is overly complicated. The man's a lunatic.

He immediatly starts talking to the Courier in extremely poetic metaphoric dialogue about things the Courier essentially knows absolutely nothing about.

Then he wants to destroy and kill thousands of people in an attempt to make a point the Courier isn't going to get.

There's no pleasing Ulysses.

You let him live? He sits on the edge of a cliff and QQ's for the rest of his life.

He complains no matter what faction you're in.

And if you aren't persuasive enough, he will simply turn hostile.

I just finished Lonesome Road and thought a lot about Ulysses motives and ambitions. I feel that he's a strong and just man, but he was also shaped by the things he had to endure. Caeser's betrayal for once, and the loss of his tribe "The Twisted Hair". I think he saw HOPE in the Divide (Hopesville...), hope for a strong, new start. A place that could shelter people from "the storm". Create a better place, a new world, a world where people would live in peace. A world like a prosperous America, the way we were before WWII, strong and feared, but also looked up to and respected.

Then, it was taken from him and knowing that he can never fulfill his dream of a better world, he became obsessed with his dream, with America, with the old world, never knowing what could have been, yet, knowing that the one who carried the package is still out there, still able to answer for his or her deed, drove him to contact "the courier".

Ulysses has a right to "QQ" like you said Gingy. He's been through a lot, but he came out as a survivor. He is a very charismatic and enigmatic man. I gladly let him live!

I wholeheartedly agree with that, but I think if he wanted his dream to work, he could go out and make a difference, and not wait for the "invisible fires" of the divide to kill him from the inside.

Or perhaps he believes his dream is done, and thinks there's nothing worth living for and would rather die with his dream. (His dream metaphorically being the Divide), A lot of times, that's the cowardly, but necessary way to go. Especially if you're like Ulysses and endured so much pain..

I actually didn't interpret it that way. I interpreted it as him sitting ever vigilant until he's needed.

If you let him live, the Courier has convinced him that he can build up another nation. Ulysses makes peace with the Courier then because he believes in him. I've stated before that I think, without a doubt, Independent Vegas is canon. It's the Courier's chance for redemption, building up a second nation, and doing it right this time. And although Ulysses warns that the Tunnelers will be the death of the Mojave, I picture the Courier accepting that, ready to stand tall and defend the Mojave from all possible threats. At that point, I picture Ulysses there by his side, ready to fight alongside him. Why? Because the Courier (and the nation he builds) gives him hope, and of course Ulysses would want to defend his hope.

We only see him at the canyon because that day has not yet come. That's my interpretation anyways.

Thats beautiful. Good we agree, now lets bomb the [censored] out of NCR and Legion

I don't think that is what Ulysses would've wanted.

He wanted to bomb the NCR, but now that you persuaded him, and by extension, saved him, he doesn't want to bomb either of them.


I think you're right in a sense, but at the end of Lonesome Road it said that Ulysses' road was over, which means he probably isn't going to do anything dramatic or important after the events of LR.

I think Obsidian turned him into a hermit, and what I mean by that is the fact that he probably won't ever leave Hopeville again until his death, and he's always there for useful advice for the Courier.

How many years have passed? How long did Ulysses hide in that temple and yes, I agree, why didn't he use the time to start over somewhere else. The end confrontation though, feels like Ulysses just got there to activate the bomb, to maybe "test" the courier, to see what he/she would do? Was he right to hate or blame the courier all this time?

And yes, people deal with tragedy and loss in different ways. Maybe too much of his dream died that fateful day, so Ulysses chose the solitude of that silo, overlooking the Divide and thought of "what could have been".


Well said. I would love to have Ulysses fight by my side any day!


Ulysses is a loner, but with the right friends, he might take up "the cause" again. I just think it would be sad for him to just stay there in Hopeville all by himself. Maybe the courier's words were enough to awaken some inner fire and get him going again! Heck, I can dream, can't I?

Any other views on this? It's quite an interesting topic imo, you can never be sure what he means...

He's been hurt and feels cornered & vengeful with a stockpile of goodies when a target (ie "you") enter the scene. He's initially the enemy, and he views you as such as well. The rest of the DLC just becomes a dance where you break down walls (or not) and learn about the other. It's a one-on-one match that can relate to nation-versus-nation in a simplified\ symbolic relationship. There's the chance to gain understanding, or not, redemption, or not, forgive, or not, compromise, or not. I would disagree that he's an unreasoning nihilist since my last character did reason with him. He does change if you can learn to tolerate him.

Just some of his quotes from the wiki:


Again, to me it seems as though the conflict between him and yourself is more about realizing what impact your actions have and truly thinking about what you do, but yeah, not quite sure how his love of America ties into this. That's the part that always evades me...

He respects the power of America and wants to build a place as powerful eliminating the flaws. Flaws which still exist in every faction you can chose, but he believes the legion is the best hope to achieve his goal eventually since the divide was destroyed.

In my opinion he see's America as a powerful place but wants to rebuild in a different image than the one pre - war.