Our headmaster was fond of the cane. Seemed to work pretty well, even the yobs were respectful in their own way. Then one day it was outlawed and the overall standard of behaviour worsened significantly almost overnight. Much worse for all concerned in my view.

So this thread turned into spanking/belting/punishment. I'll respectfully take my leave.

Uh huh. Look at video games how? I assume you're talking about the debate of whether video games promote aggression in kids. Of course there is evidence for and against everything. That's how science and research works. Of course, if there are a lot more pros then cons / vice versa in the literature, then usually the side that has more evidence has a better footing.

And the funny thing about the study that the article talks about? It wasn't published. In any journal or magazine. This means the study has likely not undergone any sort of peer review process. It also calls into question the study itself - but since I can't read it, since it wasn't published, I can't even look at the data. Simply because one researcher comes out and says that, under laboratory conditions, there isn't enough evidence that spanking is bad, doesn't mean much (which is what Dr. Marjorie Gunnoe did - examined kids who said they had been spanked and correlated from that data their current personality / behavior) (source: http://www.miller-mccune.com/culture/is-it-ever-ok-to-spank-my-child-29529/ ). Laboratory conditions are just that - conditioned. There are set parameters that must be kept constant. Just hands, no belts, no paddles, no yelling, no nothing. Not exactly what parents or principals usually do when they spank their charges.

Also, we are talking solely about parental spanking - which is quite different than when a teacher or principal does it.

Can't say I agree with the OP, I live in a county where there are 22 high schools, 25+ middle and 30+ elementary schools. The fact that the level of education varies so much from one school to the other just based on the location/staff is crazy. I went to a school that is now being completely restaffed due to how low the test scores are. I did outstanding in school despite it being a pretty bad one, I took either honors or AP and made A's but I can't say the school system is close to good when I watch people in the classes I was a student aide in seriously struggle to freaking the read the simplest stuff in in the 12th grade and then realize they're going to go out into the world barely being able to read.

OP, schools such as yours (or what I presume it is) are not the issue, it is the ones that have students who can hardly read at a 2nd grade level by the end of high school and who have 40% drop-out rates.

I for one go to a private Catholic high school, overall I like it. I think that the education is pretty good.

Who wants to talk about spanking now? Enter: RULERS!



Precisely. I was in a 7th grade classroom where there were kids doing second grade reading... and struggling with it.

It's easy to sit here when you're the advlt and say, "yeah those damn kids deserve it." but you're forgetting the fear that happens when you are absolutely powerless and you're getting physically abused by someone much older, stronger and bigger than you. It doesn't help discipline the kids, it just messes them up.

I disagree, America's education system is not fine at all it's actually pretty bad. Do I need to point at Detroit where you'll be lucky if half the students graduate from high school. Not to mention that some teachers not all teachers but some are intentionally indoctrinating their students by teaching them that The USA is a bad country, we should be a global community, etc instead of what actually happened in the past or what truly happened in particular subject. Also No Child Left Behind is an absolute disastor.

I was lucky enough to go to a good school but the way they teach the classes needs to change, hell I've learned more outside of high school then I ever did in it.

Political much?

No corporal punishment anymore in our diocese. Cut up, go to the principals office, get time out, sentences/lines, detention, clean-up duty, or lunch isolation.
Next time you exhibit unacceptable behavior detrimental to the learning process in that nine weeks, enjoy in school suspension. Continue with unsatisfactory behavior, assault, or sixually harrass someone, expulsion. The end. School keeps the money. It's in the paperwork you sign at the beginning of the year, and in code of conduct parents and students sign. This is why private schools have academic excellence. Their funds are not directly affected if the student is absent. Parents shoulder the financial burden if they cannot impart the doctrie that the classroom is a place to behave according to school rules so that everyone can learn.
Which brings me to the core reason of why american schools svck. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet.
American schools are funded by the attendance of the student. Federal funds will be withdrawn if the student is not present for a certain amount of hours during the day. Schools also get funding for superior test scores, special education, and grants from private business that do business with the school system.
This has the detrimental effect of admistrators ordering teachers to manage students with behavioral issues in the classroom. School principals and deans are loath to send the student home or deter them from attending the school. Funding for children with violent emotional outbursts is a higher rate than that of mainstream students. . Many times, lacking enough qualified special education teachers, children with uncontrollable mental and behavioral issues are mainstreamed in the hope it will assist them in development. Usually it ends badly, for both the mainstream student and the special ed student who is incorporated.

It's been my experience as a diocesan employee that the nuns were actually more tolerant and more forgiving of unacceptable behavior, than other educational professionals.

forgive me but, i get a bit passionate about this subject cause im in wisconsin and its been a big issue here lately.......i also know several great people with education degrees who cant get a job currently because of how the system is set up right now.

the system is broken. i live on wisconsin which has the worst district in the country, milwaukee, while simultaneously having some of the best schools in the rest of the state. as people have noted education is not the same is it used to be. stupid ideas like "self esteem" and whole language learning and been tried and been disproven at the expense of an entire generation of kids. a few myths that have to be cleared up.

not enough is spent on education........[censored]. i saw this first hand in high school when i spent my first 2 years at a private lutheran highschool of 2000 students and then spent the last two years at public schools (thankfully not in milwaukee). both schools had the same amount of kids but the tuition at the private school was a little over $2000 per year. milwaukee spends around $9000 per student and they svck more than those trucks that clean out septic tanks. waukesha was the third best in the state and wisconsin was the best in the nation and didnt spend at much per student as milwaukee did. just take a look at how much extra baggage you typical public school has to deal with. the private school had 3 or 4 secretaries.........the public school had over a dozen for the same number of students. they need to start spending their money smarter..........not just keep getting more of it. i hear people say well what about mississippi and i say that they just proved my point. i spend more on cat food and kitty litter a year than mississippi spends per student on their system and they are tied with washington DC which spends over $11000 per year per student.

its all the parents fault............more [censored]. wisconsin is fortunate to have been one of the pioneers in school vouchers. overwhelmingly, kids that get the vouchers improve. did the parents get kidnapped and replaced by robots? no. is the kid a changeling? no. the one thing that did change is the environment. i keep hearing all the time that they cant do anything cause their homes are broken..........that leave 50% of the fault with them. where does the other 50% go. apparently not to the teachers or administrators. :rolleyes: we had lots of bad apples at the private school, they just knew how to deal with them properly.

if it were up to me all the bad school districts would be immediately closed down and everyone fired......everyone. the reigns should be handed over to other districts in the state that are doing a good job (if there arent any then the state goverment) and then the school district can be rebuilt piece by piece with super strict regulations. most former employees should be ineligible for rehiring with the possible exception of the top 10% of teachers and no administrative staff. teachers have to work within the constraints of the system so i give them more slack but administrators have more say so if the system svcks then so do they.

as for teachers losing jobs.........i dont give a [censored]. you have to ask yourself what is the purpose of the education system. is it a jobs program or is it supposed to teach kids how to learn. i know a good number of people with eduction degrees that cant get in cause they arent in the "system". you have to know someone to get on the inside track. it should be based on your abilities not who you know or who you are related to, sadly this isnt the case around here.

every year the bottom tier say 5% or 10% should be given a warning. if they dont improve the next year they should be terminated "hasta la vista, baby" and replaced with the multitudes of applicants that are willing and able to do the job.

they need to rebuild the system around the kids.

I actually held back because of the rules trust me it would've been ten times worse but I'm not here to make enemies I'm just pointing out flaws in the system :biggrin:

Sure, risk mentally scarring children for life so they would be less restless and more respectful.

one school in my area was sooooo bad, that the entire faculty was going to lose their jobs (and most of them lost their jobs). then again, it was a haven for drugs, alcohol, gang violence, illegal aliens, and just total disregard for any authority.

it was based off of some grade thing were if the school did not meet requirements, the government would take over.

Although I wonder what's cause and what's consequence there.

I did touch on some of that. Not the attendance part but the fact that schools get more funding for better test scores and how they are turning into a business.



Yessir, Wisconsinite as well. Not a good time studying to be a teacher that's for sure, I do agree with quite a bit of your post. I once heard from a somebody that "parents of kids don't care about their children in MPS." When I heard that I was like there are 40,000 parents that don't care about their kids? Wowzers.

I don't think that all teachers should be fired. I've been taught that it's not the teachers fault or parents fault and ESPECIALLY not the students fault. My question was then, whose fault is it? I then learned it is the curriculum. I've been taught that I need to teach students in the best possible way that I can, even if it means breaking the curriculum. I'm there for the students to help them learn. If the school doesn't like the way I'm teaching but the kids are learning then I will take my ideals elsewhere. I've been taught that just because a child doesn't show up for class doesn't mean that they are a bad student. There are a multitude of things that go into play. For example what if that child has a younger sibling and a single parent whose only means of providing for their children is to work 9-5 in order to pay all the bills and the younger sibling gets sick and has to stay home from school. The older child would then have to sacrifice education for the well being of their family. I've been taught a lot of things. I want to be a teacher because I want to make a difference in children's lives and I believe I have the power to do it. The current education system is broken because it evolves around money and not the children. squeekers brings up a very valid point that they need to rebuild the system around kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxsOVK4syxU

This pretty much sums up everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

I can watch these all day

That is awesome. I'm watching them now.

good link.........thanks.

Education is big business, has been for many years.

Man, is the OP sheltered or what?

Bullying, drug use, and drinking are common things in most other schools, man.

It may not be physical, but bullying happens. I've been bullied, harshly. Been shoved, have had things thrown at me, have had nasty rumors spread about me being gay, and worse.

Drug use happens. Theres about half a dozen people I can count on being high at various parts of the day.

Alcohol use happens. Two of my friends were recently arrested for alchohol use, and 3 others were suspended.

Just because you didn't see these things doesn't mean others don't.

I don't think the education system is fine. I think it is a mess. A lot has to do with politics, but I also feel that another problem is teaching methods and the education paradigm.

To me, it seems education is rooted back in the middle ages. There was limited knowledge, so it was possible to learn everything. Today, though, there is so much knowledge, more than one person can possibly learn - even in a specific field. And yet academia expects students to learn and memorize zillions of facts and terms and such. That's not how jobs work today, and it isn't how the human brain works. I think the emphasis should be on understanding concepts, which would prepare me to understand the details should I ever need to access them. additionally, another important skill would be accessing data. We cannot fit it all into our brains, so let's store it on computers instead and learn how to access the info when we need it - not try to memorize information that is used infrequently. "Memorize and purge" is the common experience for most classes. You learn it long enough to pass the course, but if you aren't using it, you lose it.

For the sciences, especially chemistry, I feel the labs are held back by outdated equipment and methods. Use a buret to titrate? No real laboratory will have manual burets with those finicky cockstops. No, there are more precise instruments that are easier, faster, and more accurate to use. Example; we spent an entire chem lab (3 hours) doing pH testing on a half dozen different solutions with seven indicators for each solution. Just give me a pH probe or a pH stick and I'd have finished the lab in 30 minutes. No one uses seven indicators in order to guesstimate the solution's pH. The methods are getting in the way of the concepts - that is what I dislike. The tools should make things easier and should facilitate understanding, not distract and consume my entire attention.

I feel another problem, particularly with undergrad university/college are the "required" courses. I already had liberal arts for most of grade school and high school (english class), why do I need 6 to eight more courses in history, art, writing, and poetry? I'm a biology major, I have enough core required courses as it is. In fact, I could have already graduatde by now if I hadn't had to fulfill my LA&S requirements (language, arts, and sciences) with non-relevant courses. It's my money I'm spending, I should decide what I'm going to learn and what I need to learn to be successful.

Which leads to another point, that many courses don't prepare me with the skills I will need for the job market. Biology is such a broad major. There are people who are Sports Science majors who have to take biology. The Nurses and doctors take bio courses, too, and chem courses. Do you think they really need to learn about plant biology in gen bio ii?

And then there is the sad and disturbing trend that so many students coming into college need to take remedial courses in basic math and writing.

If I was going to change things, I'd include more hands-on learning and less book-memorizing and lecturing. There needs to be a mix of learning styles, and they also need to be engaging. I've had some really fantastic professors; getting the dull professors really emphasizes how important teaching methods contribute to my enthusiasm and understanding of the subject matter.

Wow, great video.

A bunch of teenagers in flyover country? Not the best group to base an assessment off of. But anyway, if people don't know much about canada, it's largely because Americans in general do not care about Canada. At all. In America, Canada serves as either an example in health care debates or as a subject of ridicule. No one really cares about what Canadians do, who they vote for, whether Quebec is agitating about secession or any of that.

Note about community colleges: they're a terrible example of what's available post-secondary, and are generally worse than state colleges. Community colleges need to prioritize their limited budgets to what their community needs (read: what people will pay for), and American history is more necessary than the history of, say, france.

State Universities are funded and regulated by individual states, namely, each state university is under the jurisdiction of the state it resides in. Private Universities are not funded by public funds (outside of any sort of grants and the like that the government might offer such institutions), and their curriculum's are not regulated by the government. There are other publically funded institutions that are not State Universities, such as West Point, which unlike state universities are federally funded and serve specific purposes. West point, for example, is the U.S. Army's academy and it's graduates become officers in the army.

So does my cousin. I don't know what the teaching methods are, but what I do know is that he spends 95% of his time studying and doing homework, 7 days a week. And even on summer vacation, he has to spend at least 1 month of constant work to finish all the assignments they give.

I really don't think overloading someone with so much work will make them learn any faster than a good pacing and efficient lessons.