Yah that stuff about Quebec is basically a joke.
Anywhoo...

I'll just forget the existence of the Parti Québécois then.

No.

Discipline: My business, not the schools.

General Comments: I would agree that the OP has probably been pretty sheltered, or really did just go to a school that was that good (my school was actually a lot like his, though there was some bullying and drug use. C'mon, we live 20 minutes from Austin). I do agree most heartily that our public education system is screwed up; where it conditions kids to obey orders and robs them of their creativity because all "learning" is geared towards the next standardized test that is coming up.

@ Darthravanger above about Community Colleges: That might really just be Californian CCs. ACC has so much selection it's kinda daunting. Obviously not quite on the level of UT, A&M, or other colleges across the country, but when you can knock out all "core" classes, as well as many degree classes, I wouldn't say the selection is terrible.

I didn't say the selection was "terrible," I said that Community Colleges are "terrible" examples of what's available to students.

My mistake.

That was a very interesting video, especially visually. However, I agreed with most everything the man said. Education works too much like a big factory full of cans that need filling. There's very little room for imagination and creative thinking within such a system, and I must say the curse is on me as well. I'd have trouble coming up with just ten uses for a paper clip. :laugh:

Just goes to show you, Canadians can be just as ignorant

Montana for the most part is a backwater, but Whitefish (where I was) has become a huge destination for rich people, there's a lot of ex-nfl players, casino owners, hedge fund managers, etc. That have property there. This doesn't really relate to the argument but I just wanted to point out Montana does have something useful lol. Again, I'm not basing my entire view of Americans on those guys/girls, but you have to admit... /facepalm.

I get how schools in the states work to, I was just comparing the CCs in Cali to the CCs here (in my city of 80k) and from what friends that are going to the college say is that there still is a pretty big selection in classes, they're just super easy. For the most part every university in Canada is public, with a few private ones but they are expensive and not as prestigious.

Excellent link. Thank you very much!

Certainly the video is interesting.

However, Robinson utterly lost me when he started talking about ADHD and how it is a fictitious epidemic (possible, depending on how one views an epidemic) and that it has a greater prevalence in the eastern side of the United States. He goes on to "explain" that ADHD is occurring, in part, because of modern society. He, of course, neglects to mention in his witty speech that ADHD has existed in some form or another for roughly 100 years (I wrote a rather long post about the history of ADHD, but I can't seem to find it anymore - if anyone could find that for me I'd be grateful). He also neglects to mention that, surprisingly enough, the eastern side of the United States has a much, much higher population density than the western half of the United States (duh!) and thus you would obviously see a greater number of ADHD cases in a larger population (think about it: New York has, what, 19 million people in it, whereas Montana has less than a million people). So, if we assume that ADHD has a prevalence rate of 1%, New York has roughly 190,000 people suffering from ADHD (and a good deal less receiving medication for it) while Montana has 10,000 ADHD cases (and even less receiving medication). So of course the number of medications for ADHD will go up as you go east in the United States - there are simply more people there.

That's concise...

True, There is no best country in the world. We all have our flaws. You wonder why some guy halfway across the world hates a certain country? Flaws.


You make a good point Troyatz. At my old school, I was bullied heaps for my religion and got called names. When we moved to a private, it was better, but I was still bullied. But when I say it was better, I mean it was better for me. Others? I don't think so.


Agreed.

Now, this is coming from and Aussie, and I would say Finland was a good educational system. I mean, every school has its bullying, but the was the Finnish teach is good.

And how is the US above England? It was thanks to them that the US is here today.

i think the future of education is going to be moving more online than ever. i hated math in high school, partly cause its a subject that my brain just despises and also cause my teachers were .......well boring. not entirely their fault since how excited can you get teaching the same [censored] math problems for 5 periods a day.

i started back to college last year and since i had been out of school for over 79 years i basically had to start all my math from scratch. i took the beginning algebra class that was offered online with the ALEKS system. i have to say that i wish they had had that in high school cause i whipped through the program in less than half the recommended time and got an A on my final exam. i watched videos on youtube and other sources for any stuff that i needed further info on chemistry and physics and it makes a world of difference. i started on the next class this semester and found it to be just as easy as the beginning algebra with that system although i dropped it cause it was an 8AM class and i dont care how im learning math, that is to goddam early for that [censored].

i think the education system needs to move towards a system that is specifically tailored for each student and become more computerized. this also has the benefit of tremendously lowering costs over the long term since you no longer need a teacher for every 30 or so kids. one good education program could teach millions of kids for pennies what we pay now.

Teachers are also motivation. I know for a fact that I was told to do all my studying/work online when I was in school, I would just get bored and blow it off.

After a full grade 1 through 12 school in the US myself, and Kindergarten (13 years total), helping raise a girl (private and public schools), and friends kids going through it, I must heartily disagree with the premise of the topic that the US education system is fine. It's not. It's in a horrible state, in fact.

While the main proponent of knowledge the US education system obviously fails at, the most glaring issue is social progress. Unfortunately these schools are becoming excessively nanny-like, catering to rather short-sighted and fear based reaction to decreasing amount of US crime (the opposite effect being the media and the embellished view that these things happen around every street corner) that makes children more unsociable, is excessively coddling, and teaches them to be afraid of and not trust others instead of learning how to deal with things on their own. Too many implications of adverse affects surrounding this but it's crappy behavioral enginering that has unfortunately also plagued other western nations.

Its not just the education system that is broken in the US. Almost the entire country is based off of 18th-19th century ideas. Look at its gun control for example "The founding farthers said we had the right to have arms", well a gun back there wasn't a full automatic rifle or machine gun. But taking away guns would be label as non-americian these days. And its quite sad cause nobody seams to care, cause by time they are 18 they either sink more time into school so they can slave away or go straight to slaving away for the economy. Why? So some imaginary man made thing can continue to enslave us while we worship it, cause if we don't, it will collapse and we cant put food on our tables. Hell we worship and fear it as much as we did to dragons back in the 15th century.

I was diagnosed with ADHD. I always knew it was [censored]. Glad I hardly ever took those pills.

Wonder if the education system will ever be revamped here.

The opening post has to be one of the worst forms at "My experiences are fact" I've read in a looooong time. Not to mention the patriotism which made me cringe. Seriously, how can you post your thoughts as de facto when you're clearly just writing down your experience from just one or two schools in your entire life.

The mind boggles.

You all hopefully know what I'll say here by now, so I'll just stop right here and let you all fill in the blanks.

___ _____ ___ ______ __ _ ___ ___ _______ ____ _ _____ _____ __________? ___ ____ __ ____ __ _____!

I'll just mention a little incident here in Sweden, since I think it's related to this discussion. Not too long ago there were some news coverage concerning a school where the students sixually harassed teachers, threw stuff, etc etc. Many teachers planned to take sick leave since they felt mentally bad, and it ended with the police planning to "talk" with the students from what I've heard this far. I don't know about you but I say that a little discipline is in order. And this is an isolated incident, not many students go this far, but in the end it shouldn't be "few". It should be "none".

Why is ADHD such a big deal? Is it really that common over there? I don't think I know anyone whose got ADHD personally, I wouldn't know about it if it wasn't for your guys.

I tried to fill in the blanks and ask you a question at the same time.

I'm guessing your basic answer is No. Or highly doubtful.

Are you commenting on both lines or just one?

ADHD affects, globally, around 3-5% of children / advlts. So, roughly, 140 million people. So, yes, it is a big deal in terms of the rate of prevalence. It doesn't have the same debilitating effects of, say, schizophrenia, but it certainly causes a general lowering of quality of life in most cases.


The first line.

In general, I was essentially saying, though not quite in these words, that Robinson is incorrect in his viewpoints on ADHD (and does not, as far as I can tell, have the educational background to have a strong opinion on these views) and simply ignoring the diagnosis of a mental health professional is not usually the correct thing to do. Of course, you could have been perfectly correct in not taking the medication for ADHD, but I wouldn't recommend it as a means for someone to cope with their ADHD.

Except that there is evidence showing that some mental illnesses, especially ADHD and depression, are being over-diagnosed.

While you're right in saying that you shouldn't just not take your medication because of some youtube video, you also need to consider that ADHD is treated with an amphetamine, or amphetamine derivative.

Many parents push doctors to prescribe medication when it's unnecessary, as used to happen with antibiotics and viral infections, and many doctors are paid by drug companies to promote medications. Then there is the recreational use, which has definitely caused many a teen to fake ADHD symptoms.

Basically what I'm saying is that Robinson's point was not that ADHD doesn't exist, it was that there is a disproportionate amount of ADHD medications being prescribed in the eastern US.

But that wasn't Robinson's point. And, yes, there is likely data that supports the over-diagnosis of ADHD / depression medication, but that doesn't mean much as per Robinson's point.

And your point is what? That medications like Adderall are addictive? My point was that Robinson was noting that prescriptions for ADHD rose as one moved across from the western United States to the eastern United States, without noting the increase in population density, and implying that, because the ADHD medications rose as one moved across the United States from west to east, that, somehow, ADHD was not an epidemic (which I agree with, it is likely not an epidemic). But, then, he likewise posits that ADHD is caused, in part, by today's society that offers so many distractions. He doesn't note, however, that ADHD was originally diagnosed in the early 20th century and came "unto its own" in the psychological literature around the 1960s, well before all the video games and the Internet. I can even find early reports from the 1890s that talk about children who are unable to focus and who have difficulty learning - hallmarks of ADD / ADHD.

Sure, I agree with that. People want an easy fix - they don't want the long, arduous psychological treatment - they want results now, which is in itself a problem. And simply because a drug has recreational uses outside of the ones prescribed on its label doesn't mean the drug itself is bad. It simply means people are misusing it.

And, again, I point you to the fact that the eastern U.S has a great deal more population density, and thus, more ADHD medications being prescribed versus the western U.S. Simple population density. All Robinson does is note that the number of prescriptions for ADHD increase as one moves across the U.S and infers from that.

I have known several people throughout my life that take medications for mental illness - including ADHD and depression (the contra-indications page for many SSRIs is looooong). While it is strictly anecdotal, I can remember instances where certain friends of mine did not take their medication and had significantly altered behavior - almost literally bouncing off the walls with energy. While I think that ADHD and depression are possibly over-diagnosed, that doesn't negate the fact that they are both mental disorders and do generally necessitate psychotherapy and/or medication.